How to unload Chinese tin boats

[Fisher_dude]

Thanks for coming to my ted talk. Haha

 

[kaelc]

My friends company did QC and testing for every purchase from China and US suppliers. They did materials purity, ndt and failure testing, probably a lot more I just headhunted CNC machinist for them, but was greatful to learn and get a tour. One of the US household names they bought millions in product from had a huge failure rate. You could say the US supplier used cheap Chinese components or just that they had terrible qa/qc (I believe it was the QC).

Because a River Hawk boats sunk doesn't mean every aluminum boat manufacture in Grants Pass Oregon, is garbage or every manufafture in OR or the US is garbage. Katanacraft down there says “Based on multiple industry standards, our commercial welds are AWS-certified.” but if I was putting down any amount of money I would want a better understanding of how the boat was designed and what standards and testing they use?

There is a reason a lot of specmar and cope boats sell for way less than a factory produced boats, we don't know how good the welder fabricator was and if it wasn't from one of the medium size Vancouver Island builders if they even have a QC process. At least we know the design is pretty sound. With new manufactures we don't know the design, Fab or weld quality.

We digress, I wonder how long it takes to rig a new gospel. The issue of skilled labour still makes it tough to get these in the water. When do you think they will sea trail these in April?

 

[kaelc]

Thanks for coming to my ted talk. Haha

I raise you a Tedx talk

 

[brutus]

Also, I have 2 red seal trades under my belt, both revolving around welding and metal and I wouldn’t own a KF. I also live in the valley they are built in. I’ve seen some interesting cases with them. They have a hard time keeping good welders employed. Any boat manufacturer that doesn’t cover up the center of their last whip/pulse/dab isn’t worth owning.

I rest my case lol

 

[brutus]

Good vs bad. The last part of the weld to solidify is the center. If you leave the center visible, and the whole weld is like that, it’ll crack right down the middle due to a weak point in the center of all the pulses/whip/dab. I always go by a rule of 1/3 visable, 2/3 covered. That way you get lots of reinforcement for the weld and if your prep
Was good, you have nothing to worry about.



View attachment 112621View attachment 112622

Very nice

 

[brutus]

My friends company did QC and testing for every purchase from China and US suppliers. They did materials purity, ndt and failure testing, probably a lot more I just headhunted CNC machinist for them, but was greatful to learn and get a tour. One of the US household names they bought millions in product from had a huge failure rate. You could say the US supplier used cheap Chinese components or just that they had terrible qa/qc (I believe it was the QC).

Because a River Hawk boats sunk doesn't mean every aluminum boat manufacture in Grants Pass Oregon, is garbage or every manufafture in OR or the US is garbage. Katanacraft down there says “Based on multiple industry standards, our commercial welds are AWS-certified.” but if I was putting down any amount of money I would want a better understanding of how the boat was designed and what standards and testing they use?

There is a reason a lot of specmar and cope boats sell for way less than a factory produced boats, we don't know how good the welder fabricator was and if it wasn't from one of the medium size Vancouver Island builders if they even have a QC process. At least we know the design is pretty sound. With new manufactures we don't know the design, Fab or weld quality.

We digress, I wonder how long it takes to rig a new gospel. The issue of skilled labour still makes it tough to get these in the water. When do you think they will sea trail these in April?

I think sooner, they already have the power, so I assume it will be done asap

 

[Alex_c]

You do realize that local boats are made of Chinese aluminum ??? Now I did not do a purity test on these boats lol it’s just a fact that 90% of aluminum used in Canada get unloaded out of the same shipping container those boats came in. In fact a huge % of all things made of aluminum comes from china. Again I am in the same BOAT as most on here I don’t trust the quality of nothing coming from china, corporation don’t give a s….and that’s why they source the production in china, labour at 3$ a day or Canada labour at 500$ a day . I wish it wasn’t the case, unless your head is far up where the sun don’t shine lol you refuse to acknowledge the pure fact of the case. Like I mention before I buy lots of stuff from Amazon cause it’s cheaper and it all comes from china

Sure our aluminum comes from China. Doesn’t mean it’s the same grade as the stuff they use for their boats. We have the luxury of rejecting materials before turning them into products.

 

[Alex_c]

Tell me you don’t fish with Amundsen reels ????

nope

 

[brutus]

nope

Oh good cause they made in china lol

 

[Alex_c]

Oh good cause they made in china lol

Not sure how that’s relevant. I don’t need to trust my life on the build quality of a reel when I’m pounding home through a 25 knot wind.

 

[brutus]

Sure our aluminum comes from China. Doesn’t mean it’s the same grade as the stuff they use for their boats. We have the luxury of rejecting materials before turning them into products.

I doubt they take returns, I have friend in my industry that get nails shipped from china and form plywood , once you put in an order it’s cash deal they won’t ship until money is in their account, flying to china to view the product is mandatory due. Diligence

 

[Alex_c]

I doubt they take returns, I have friend in my industry that get nails shipped from china and form plywood , once you put in an order it’s cash deal they won’t ship until money is in their account, flying to china to view the product is mandatory due. Diligence

So if a Canadian mfg gets a bad batch they just use it anyway? I never said anything about returns lol.

Well aware of the need to inspect the production facilities for quality assurance. Company I used to work for did that with electronics. However, their QC was terrible, and we still rejected stuff. The price was low enough that eating the cost of scrapping a bad batch was factored in.

 

[brutus]

So if a Canadian mfg gets a bad batch they just use it anyway? I never said anything about returns lol.

Well aware of the need to inspect the production facilities for quality assurance. Company I used to work for did that with electronics. However, their QC was terrible, and we still rejected stuff. The price was low enough that eating the cost of scrapping a bad batch was factored in.

Yes

 

[brutus]

Not sure how that’s relevant. I don’t need to trust my life on the build quality of a reel when I’m pounding home through a 25 knot wind.

There is guy out there with boats I would never step on never mind in 25 knots, I will leave this one here

 

[Alex_c]

Good vs bad. The last part of the weld to solidify is the center. If you leave the center visible, and the whole weld is like that, it’ll crack right down the middle due to a weak point in the center of all the pulses/whip/dab. I always go by a rule of 1/3 visable, 2/3 covered. That way you get lots of reinforcement for the weld and if your prep
Was good, you have nothing to worry about.



View attachment 112621View attachment 112622

Are those both the same process?

 

[Fisher_dude]

Are those both the same process?

All depends on who’s welding and how much knowledge they have on the process. The top could be a pro and the bottom a beginner. Most manufacturers are using some sort of pulsed mig setup these days and then tig for some of the more technical areas. Where you run into the issues is when your bosses expect a certain amount of work to be done in a day and you feel rushed and start to move faster without changing your setting and the pulses start getting further apart so you’re not getting the proper coverage and weld reinforcement. When I was looking to purchase my first boat, I wanted to support local and buy a KF. I looked at a LOT of their boats in that time period and was turned off by every single one.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Gettem in the country before they start to tariff them

 

[Brando]

Pretty hard to compare mig and tig. Aluminum mig very often leaves a certain amount of porosity, starts much colder. If your deposition rate isn’t high enough.. there’s settings to dial that up .

That’s without pulse 5356 .052 on 1/4” 5052


This is 1/4” as well 5356 filler for both tig on the right mig on the left.

The welding is the easy part you can easily build stress into aluminum parts with poor joint design, bad fitup or by pouring too much heat into one area. you need to layout the welds and follow a sequence. If that’s all done properly
you will significantly reduce the likelihood of issues. And that would be my biggest concern with those hulls… QC and welding procedures/oversight to ensure they’re being followed.

 

[brutus]

Pretty hard to compare mig and tig. Aluminum mig very often leaves a certain amount of porosity, starts much colder. If your deposition rate isn’t high enough.. there’s settings to dial that up . View attachment 112630

That’s without pulse 5356 .052 on 1/4” 5052
View attachment 112631

This is 1/4” as well 5356 filler for both tig on the right mig on the left.

The welding is the easy part you can easily build stress into aluminum parts with poor joint design, bad fitup or by pouring too much heat into one area. you need to layout the welds and follow a sequence. If that’s all done properly
you will significantly reduce the likelihood of issues. And that would be my biggest concern with those hulls… QC and welding procedures/oversight to ensure they’re being followed.

Very nice,why aren’t you welding KF boats ????they can use a clean up welder lol, oh sorry I forgot they just use grinder for that part

 

[SteelyDan]

All depends on who’s welding and how much knowledge they have on the process. The top could be a pro and the bottom a beginner. Most manufacturers are using some sort of pulsed mig setup these days and then tig for some of the more technical areas. Where you run into the issues is when your bosses expect a certain amount of work to be done in a day and you feel rushed and start to move faster without changing your setting and the pulses start getting further apart so you’re not getting the proper coverage and weld reinforcement. When I was looking to purchase my first boat, I wanted to support local and buy a KF. I looked at a LOT of their boats in that time period and was turned off by every single one.

Exactly. On the point of too far spacing between pulses. I seen a pic of a silver streak the other day and was a wtf moment. Im also a red seal welder.