Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread

Yeah but your logic is constant, you want to see salmon farmers removed because they harm wild salmon, your okay with Fraser river salmon closures, your okay with the SRKW closures, you don’t like hatcherys because they harm wild salmon, you point out that catch and release harms wild salmon ect ect

You are not on here lobbying for more hatchery's expanded sports fishing opportunities, lifting the SRKW closures ect and then at the salmon time saying remove fish farms they harm wild salmon

So you think that every recreational angler in BC who wants more hatcheries, hates SRKW closures etc loves open pen salmon farms and think BC needs more of them? 😆 You culture warrior you!

Of course my opinion on those matters are irrelevant. If you had ever really read my opinions on open net salmon farming operations in BC you would recall that my major issue with Grieg , Mowi and others is that they are terrible corporate citizens. Otherwise I see the "science" on those operations good, bad or evil as mixed.
 
Please tell us all that you practice what you preach, and live off the grid, walk everywhere and grow/raise your own food
Huh? Kinda irrelevant, deflecting sentiment used to shut down reasoned debate. So if anyone has any environmental concerns whatsoever they can only think/feel that way if they live "off the grid, walk everywhere and grow/raise your own food'? LOL, I guess just about every human on the planet then is a total hypocrite unless they live for and support ongoing environmental destruction of all kinds! This is just an illogical, biased, old, tired, deflecting tactic to shut discussion down.
 
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I guess my last post wasn't clear enough. This thread has a very narrow pathway. Everyone here knows there are many battles occurring on many fronts to retain a reasonable recreational fishery. Those topics already have many threads in this forum discussing them, so we will focus on fish farms here and leave the other conversations where they belong. Further posts that do not adhere to these guidelines will be removed without explanation.
 
The pro fish farming group seem to just deflect as soon as they feel cornered. I get they do feel cornered, made careers raising farmed salmon and if any of us were to see an end date of our job we would do anything to save it.
Unfortunately the companies they work for do not care about the employees they care about $$$$
Can they go on land? Absolutely but with reduced profits. As a corporation that make $50,000,000 on land and would have made $75,000,000.00 in open nets, reports it as a $25,000,000.00 loss.
It would be nice to transition to closed containment. What does that mean? Tanks on land recirculating sea water? They will need lots of power, a way to sterilize any water going back to the sea. Why would the big companies want to take this on?? Too easy right now. But they could and all the jobs would be there.
Do I think fish farming is 100% bad, most likely not, but our system of reporting sea lice, disease,….. is so flawed. Report what you want, not what is really going on. Many industries work this way, logging, mining......

So in 4.5 years we will hear about the delay of pulling out FF.
 
I have posted before, if FF's are so sure they are environmentally neutral why don't they voluntarily shut down for 10 years and see if the salmon and Orcas' make recovery or keep declining.

Sort of like a bet. 10 yrs voluntarily if still declines then 20 years FF.
I mean for FF operators it has to be a sure thing right?

IF FF's are killing wild salmon then they are also killing the Orca's. The timeline suggest a direct correlation to Orca decline and expansion of FF's. Any studies on this or is it another secret? 20% is a number to be looked at over various data.

Everything in the rest of this post has been held to the same rigid guidelines the DFO use, In other words only some it might be true or not or just made up. But I reviewed it and it is good enough for the pubic.

Some Orca corpse necropsies show odd internal issues, just covered up like most stuff. I mean have you ever seen one? Or an explanation of one? Nope, just they are starving. But only the ones that eat salmon, not the one's that eat pinnipeds that eat salmon. Any reports or studies on the effects of massive continual doses of these viruses on mammals?

Where is that 1.3 Billion dollars FF's claim BC will lose? How is that number accounted for? 500 workers? The factory where the feed is made and antibiotics added, in Mexico is it? And because it isn't for human consumption it isn't tested. The land pens where some smolts are reared? Easy for them to just switch to Coho, Chinook or Sockeye smolts and probably increase the number of jobs in an attempt to revive some now endangered or extinct runs. (Sicker mountains 😉)

A tender subject now, FN's FF and their claim of ownership. Okay they have a legit claim to where they fished, an area, but not the water itself which moves on like wild salmon do. How do they take on the risk of "their" water if there is pollution? Can they then be sued? To be really exaggerating here, but if they knowingly dumped say tons of iron filings or millions of liters of oil into "their" water are they responsible for damages where "their" water carried that pollution and the damage it caused? I mean if there is something in "their" water that kills the Orcas' off or contaminations "their" water moves on to someone else's water can they be sued? Could interior FN's sue the coast FN's for destroying their food and ceremonial fish?

Is BC now the only FF's left on the west coast? What if Alaska, Washington, Oregon or California sue for damages to their wild fish stocks? Who? The FF's, FN's, provincial or federal governments or all four?
 
The pro fish farming group seem to just deflect as soon as they feel cornered. I get they do feel cornered, made careers raising farmed salmon and if any of us were to see an end date of our job we would do anything to save it.
Unfortunately the companies they work for do not care about the employees they care about $$$$
Can they go on land? Absolutely but with reduced profits. As a corporation that make $50,000,000 on land and would have made $75,000,000.00 in open nets, reports it as a $25,000,000.00 loss.
It would be nice to transition to closed containment. What does that mean? Tanks on land recirculating sea water? They will need lots of power, a way to sterilize any water going back to the sea. Why would the big companies want to take this on?? Too easy right now. But they could and all the jobs would be there.
Do I think fish farming is 100% bad, most likely not, but our system of reporting sea lice, disease,….. is so flawed. Report what you want, not what is really going on. Many industries work this way, logging, mining......

So in 4.5 years we will hear about the delay of pulling out FF.
They do this back east already in big warehouses.

I wonder if thee courts can make FF have to comply with independent inspections
 
I have posted before, if FF's are so sure they are environmentally neutral why don't they voluntarily shut down for 10 years and see if the salmon and Orcas' make recovery or keep declining.

Sort of like a bet. 10 yrs voluntarily if still declines then 20 years FF.
I mean for FF operators it has to be a sure thing right?

IF FF's are killing wild salmon then they are also killing the Orca's. The timeline suggest a direct correlation to Orca decline and expansion of FF's. Any studies on this or is it another secret? 20% is a number to be looked at over various data.

Everything in the rest of this post has been held to the same rigid guidelines the DFO use, In other words only some it might be true or not or just made up. But I reviewed it and it is good enough for the pubic.

Some Orca corpse necropsies show odd internal issues, just covered up like most stuff. I mean have you ever seen one? Or an explanation of one? Nope, just they are starving. But only the ones that eat salmon, not the one's that eat pinnipeds that eat salmon. Any reports or studies on the effects of massive continual doses of these viruses on mammals?

Where is that 1.3 Billion dollars FF's claim BC will lose? How is that number accounted for? 500 workers? The factory where the feed is made and antibiotics added, in Mexico is it? And because it isn't for human consumption it isn't tested. The land pens where some smolts are reared? Easy for them to just switch to Coho, Chinook or Sockeye smolts and probably increase the number of jobs in an attempt to revive some now endangered or extinct runs. (Sicker mountains 😉)

A tender subject now, FN's FF and their claim of ownership. Okay they have a legit claim to where they fished, an area, but not the water itself which moves on like wild salmon do. How do they take on the risk of "their" water if there is pollution? Can they then be sued? To be really exaggerating here, but if they knowingly dumped say tons of iron filings or millions of liters of oil into "their" water are they responsible for damages where "their" water carried that pollution and the damage it caused? I mean if there is something in "their" water that kills the Orcas' off or contaminations "their" water moves on to someone else's water can they be sued? Could interior FN's sue the coast FN's for destroying their food and ceremonial fish?

Is BC now the only FF's left on the west coast? What if Alaska, Washington, Oregon or California sue for damages to their wild fish stocks? Who? The FF's, FN's, provincial or federal governments or all four?
Great post, Fishing. Very insightful questions.

In 2003 & 2006 they did something similar and fallowed the farms - called it the "Pink Salmon Migration Corridors" - and it seemed to work:



And they don't necessarily need the courts to regulate the industry. DFO could have easily done it through the Conditions of Licence - but they didn't. They refused to.

After ONPFF aquaculture was ruled to be a "fishery" in the Morton (2009) case - DFO purportedly mirrored the Conditions of Licence (CoLs) used for commercial fisheries - except they didn't. They had no intention to similarly restrict the ONPFF aquaculture licence holders..

Currently no wild fish monitoring is prescribed in the CoL to assess effectiveness of management actions nor are there third party monitors nor is disease information available either in real time or location to assess effects of an outbreak in ONP facilities on adjacent wild stocks.

In addition to the CoLs, the Minister actually has broad discretion and authority to issue licences to "fish" (Aquaculture is a "fishery") pursuant to subsection 7(1) of the Fisheries Act:

7 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Minister may, in his/her absolute discretion, wherever the exclusive right of fishing does not already exist by law, issue or authorize to be issued leases and licences for fisheries or fishing, wherever situated or carried on.

Your questions on FN rights on economic generation also ties into the assertions I have made for many years about what happened up North with the moratorium. DFO does NOT want to admit fish swim & water flows - especially in court.

And yes numerous jurisdictions have outlawed ONPSF, as you mentioned. The "improvement" on operations that cannot be mitigated through the ONP technology.
 
"Currently no wild fish monitoring is prescribed in the CoL to assess effectiveness of management actions nor are there third party monitors nor is disease information available either in real time or location to assess effects of an outbreak in ONP facilities on adjacent wild stocks".

And this is the kind of half baked, keep everyone in the dark, useless, junk science DFO uses. Why would anybody give any credibility to DFO with respect to FF's?
 
I wonder what species will be included in the "ban"


“The transition plan and related ban apply to salmon and do not apply to other species of finfish such as sablefish. Cultivation of other finfish species in B.C. takes place at a very small scale. The Department will review applications if or when they are submitted,” DFO said.

It is unclear if DFO will allow open-net farming for Steelhead, sometimes called “Steelhead Trout” which is an anadromous (sea-run) form of Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) that returns to fresh water to spawn.

Today the government announced it will be giving $378,070 to the University of Victoria’s, Department of Biology to identify pathways to improve sustainable sablefish aquaculture.

Specifically, the University will work with First Nations and industry partners to identify sablefish resistant to a pathogen that limits the large-scale expansion of sablefish aquaculture in coastal communities, DFO said in a statement.
 

“The transition plan and related ban apply to salmon and do not apply to other species of finfish such as sablefish. Cultivation of other finfish species in B.C. takes place at a very small scale. The Department will review applications if or when they are submitted,” DFO said.

It is unclear if DFO will allow open-net farming for Steelhead, sometimes called “Steelhead Trout” which is an anadromous (sea-run) form of Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) that returns to fresh water to spawn.

Today the government announced it will be giving $378,070 to the University of Victoria’s, Department of Biology to identify pathways to improve sustainable sablefish aquaculture.

Specifically, the University will work with First Nations and industry partners to identify sablefish resistant to a pathogen that limits the large-scale expansion of sablefish aquaculture in coastal communities, DFO said in a statement.
What pathogen would that be holding back Sablefish aquaculture?
 
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