Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread

Net pen salmon farms spread disease, parasites and harm the marine environment wherever they are found. Need to ge these polluting feedlots onto land where their negative environmental impacts can be better managed! Nuff said!!
seawest snooze PR firm, party marty, trying brian and simon says are in damage control over both the Fraser returns and speculative links to removal of farms on the outmigration route of the earlier smolts - while also trying to reassure investors and train the newest cabinet ministers on how aquaculture should be treated like agriculture despite the rather obvious differences in how water transports pathogens. Must've been quite the series of meetings arranging all the speaking heads the past few weeks.

I'm quite tired of the deflections, gatekeeping, lying and lack of accountability - esp. from DFO Aquaculture & the communications Branch. I'm especially disgusted with several of our federal & provincial public employees that moonlight for the industry and subsequently lie about those impacts generated by the ONP technology while employed by us taxpayers to look after the public resources. It's called a conflict of interest - and they should be fired like other employees with similar conflicts.

Then when they retire with a nice federal pension they often keep doing the same thing that they were doing for the past 25+ years - working for the industry rather than for the public - while protecting the public's resources.

The DFO communications branch should be the reason DFO gets dismantled, and the fisheries management branch gets isolated from both aquaculture & the politicians. It's way past time to reinvent what used to be the Fisheries Research Board of Canada to nullify those conflicts of interest.
 
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Woo hoo!!! Couldn’t happen any faster IMO!!!
Ya, I do feel sorry for the FF & spin-off industries workers about the impending changes.

* Not their fault that the feds gave Yves Bastien the club to remove the ONP industry from any environmental assessment in the late 1990s.
* Not their fault that the ONP technology cannot mitigate wild/cultured stock interactions.
* Not their fault that there is ~1000 times more wild salmon on the Pacific Coast with ~1000 times the interactions and impacts to wild stocks.
* Not their fault that individuals within DFO Aquaculture & Communications Branch of DFO lie and gatekeep and completely fail in their fiduciary duty.
* Not their fault that there has been zero accountability for these actions. Yves Bastien still gets his pension - as do others from DFO.

Where's their accountability? Why isn't this question being asked and answers & action demanded in the press alongside of the recent victim stories?

(Spoiler Alert: This was a historic Liberal Party decision back in the 1990s)
 
Evenin Norway?
 
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I am sure this has been asked before, but why only Atlantic salmon?
Is this because the existing companies all originated using Atlantic salmon?
I could understand open net using local stocks might be a danger but a closed land base system might eliminate much to those concerns.

I think this is just another distraction.

I think these mega companies will leave and allow others to do all the heavy lifting getting land base systems going likely with government hand outs for start ups and then come back and buy those farms.

This year's sockeye and pink returns are a result of farms being moved out of the migratory path of juvenile smolts etc.

Does it take a 24 yr old with no fishing experience but a degree to notice the correlation of farms gone, migratory paths and fish returns?
Before global warming was blamed and adopted by those whose interests were keeping the farms.
Well global warming hasn't changed but farms gone has and the empirical results speaks for itself. The genius scientists ignored the possibility that farm removal could have any result, I am sure some prayed for no improvement so they used old data that had runs declining every year. Now they look like idiots IMO. Some of them should learn how to stack dominoes. Cause and effect can sometimes be obvious.

As far as the real news being reported to gov officials or the public, there is a 3 member board where FF's have a seat, if they veto a report it gets buried so the bad news is always hidden and gov officials have built in plausible deniability. There could be 1000 reports that condemn FFs as extinguishing entire salmon runs but if not from the gov scientists then they don't exist at all and if vetoed then gov scientists aren't raising any alarms. Until one did.

FF for a long time denied that sea lice were a problem but they medicated fish like crazy, well the medication comes in the feed so they can say they don't do it but, then they admit to "some" lice issues but they are dealing with it without medicines. Presto and now they find that Herring are disappearing and FF's are killing millions of herring fry in pressure washing lice off their penned fish. Of course there is nothing stated about what happens to all these sea lice, they are just pumped into the rest of the surrounding water.That being admitted to is it not possible that wild stocks are now encountering these washed off lice now floating all over the place? Should that not be considered biological pollution?
 
I am sure this has been asked before, but why only Atlantic salmon?
Is this because the existing companies all originated using Atlantic salmon?
I could understand open net using local stocks might be a danger but a closed land base system might eliminate much to those concerns.
$ is the short answer. Stocking densities is the longer answer. Atlantics can take stocking densities 2-4 times higher than Pacific's - 2-4 times the profit.

And they have had the fish husbandry for Atlantics figured out for generations - with a large farmed egg supply and various strains of Atlantic broodstock.

And there are considerable risks/impacts to wild stocks by escapees causing introgression in the wild Atlantic stocks by escapees cross-breeding with wild stocks:



 
Does it take a 24 yr old with no fishing experience but a degree to notice the correlation of farms gone, migratory paths and fish returns?
Before global warming was blamed and adopted by those whose interests were keeping the farms.

Well global warming hasn't changed but farms gone has and the empirical results speaks for itself. The genius scientists ignored the possibility that farm removal could have any result, I am sure some prayed for no improvement so they used old data that had runs declining every year. Now they look like idiots IMO. Some of them should learn how to stack dominoes. Cause and effect can sometimes be obvious.

As far as the real news being reported to gov officials or the public, there is a 3 member board where FF's have a seat, if they veto a report it gets buried so the bad news is always hidden and gov officials have built in plausible deniability. There could be 1000 reports that condemn FFs as extinguishing entire salmon runs but if not from the gov scientists then they don't exist at all and if vetoed then gov scientists aren't raising any alarms. Until one did.
The short version on the rebuttal to the industries/Jones's latest damage control piece - is you have to use prevalences, intensities (esp. of motile lice), AND ave. weight of infected fish together in combination to estimate mortality from sea lice. Something again purposely NOT DONE in this latest damage control paper with Simon Jones name on it: Trends in sea lice infestations on chum salmon (Oncorhynchus keta) and pink salmon (O. gorbuscha) in the Broughton Archipelago, British Columbia remain unchanged despite removal of finfish aquaculture (DAO)

Pinks and chums are the smallest often entering the marine environment at 35-45mm fork lengths. Growth is generally ~1mm/day. Mortality from sea lice on smolts is size dependent, given not as prevalence (which is the typical reported metric), but rather intensity per gram of weight (which is almost never publicized). Different species and life history stages have different critical sea lice loads that cause mortality and this is yet another area DFO has purposely avoided going in their research and reporting. The best numbers I can find on numbers of (motile) lice per gram of fish that can cause mortality are in the range of 0.7 – 1.6 lice per gram of fish - dependent upon study, species & life history stage.

Most of the weights (not reported) of the fish sampled in Jones's latest & greatest paper are around 38-50 mm FL and 0.5-0.75g - so only a few days out in the ocean. Certainly no where near long enough to get lice and have them develop into their destructive motile stages on these hosts. The lifecycle of the parasitic copepod (Lepeophtheirus salmonis) consists of 2 planktonic naupilus stages, 1 infective free-swimming copepodid stage, 4 attached chalimus stages, 2 mobile preadult stages, and 1 adult stage (Bjorn and Finstad 1997). Typical development time from egg to adult is 38 days at 10oC (Finstad 2002) – or 380 degree-days as thermal units.

And guess what - they didn't report the numbers of motile lice, neither. Can you guess why?
 
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So why don't you challenge the paper agent? You claim to have the necessary data to do so ..
Good question, Dave. Half thinking of it.

But I also realize how much time/effort that would be to rebut & publish on my part.

They had a not-so-small team of numerous people including main authors, lab techs, statisticians & field staff including: "Grieg Seafood BC Ltd., MOWI Canada West Inc. and Cermaq Canada Ltd. for their support, for making their sea lice monitoring data publicly available and for providing production biomass data. We also acknowledge the Namgis, Kwikwasut’inuxw Haxwa’mis and Mamalilikulla First Nations and their joint Broughton Archipelago Transition Initiative (BATI) and recognize and acknowledge that much of the data for this study was collected for that program with the assistance of mem bers of the Nations and employees of the Initiative."

All working for many months generating the data and the report - and then some months in review in the journal. So many hundreds of hours in total.

Lets say it was only a 2 page rebuttal. That still means one has to get and transform the data that is on ~45 pdfs and convert them to excel and do a detailed statistical analyses. Then download the appropriate supporting references - and start writing by my onesies. Even if I managed to spare-up an hour a day - it'd be several months before a credible, defensible rebuttal was submitted – and even if accepted – would be several months before being published like maybe 1-2 years down the road.

And why stop there? Why not also go after some of the virtue-signaling junk from the ENGOs while I am at it? I could chase my tail forever it seems – and meanwhile – full disclosure – not getting paid for any of it.

But that’s how government & the communications branch works – government gatekeepers make you spin your wheels & spin out against their well-paid monolith. They plan this. Always dancing to their tune. And selling doubt - esp. to the politicians and the newest naïve cabinet ministers - like they are doing now.

Maybe we should instead stop dancing to their playbook. I’m kinda of tired of DFO employees doing this using our tax dollars.
 
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So why don't you challenge the paper agent? You claim to have the necessary data to do so ..
AND... If these facilities went through an actual environmental review like other industries - we wouldn't need to do that - would we? That's exactly why Yves took them out of CEAA in the early 2000s.
 
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AND... If these facilities went through an actual environmental review like other industries - we wouldn't need to do that - would we? That's exactly why Yves took them out of CEAA in the early 2000s.
Sorry agent, not buying it. I think you like to hear yourself talk and read what you write, but your'e afraid of any online confrontation with my old buddy, Simon Jones. You know it would be embarrassing so you vent on a fishing forum.
 
Well, Dave. Not asking you to buy anything. You and I and everyone else on here is allowed to have their opinions & express those – including refuting my posts. Thank you for expressing your opinion. I appreciate the largely mature discussion you and I and other ONP pundits (e.g. HG) have had on this forum.

But I would caution you on prioritizing professional friendships over fiduciary duty.

As DFO employees - all of you - including Simon & other DFO employees in the Aquaculture Department & affiliated Communications Branch are commanded by your positions & by the Fisheries Act & the courts to put protection of the Public's resources - wild fish - above promoting any industry or friends you have in the industry.

In fact, this unfortunate & unnecessary & potentially illegal collusion is what the Auditor General has also found in 2000 wrt the culture within DFO: https://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/FA1-2000-3-15E.pdf

and again in 2018:

and Justice Cohen also found in 2012 that this dual mandate creates a conflict of interest, as it risks DFO prioritizing the interests of the aquaculture industry over the health of wild salmon populations

*AND*

There is a risk that DFO will be less rigorous in enforcing the Fisheries Act against the operators of salmon farms. As long as DFO has a mandate to promote salmon farming, there is a risk that DFO will act in a manner that favours the interests of the salmon-farming industry over the health of wild fish stocks. The only way to address this potential conflict is by removing from DFO’s mandate the promotion of salmon farming as an industry and farmed salmon as a product, and by transferring the promotion of salmon farming to a different part of the Executive Branch


and independent scientists have also found the same issues:

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2022-0286

 
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Well, Dave. Not asking you to buy anything. You and I and everyone else on here is allowed to have their opinions & express those – including refuting my posts. Thank you for expressing your opinion. I appreciate the largely mature discussion you and I and other ONP pundits (e.g. HG) have had on this forum.

But I would caution you on prioritizing professional friendships over fiduciary duty.

As DFO employees - all of you - including Simon & other DFO employees in the Aquaculture Department & affiliated Communications Branch are commanded by your positions & by the Fisheries Act & the courts to put protection of the Public's resources - wild fish - above promoting any industry or friends you have in the industry.

In fact, this unfortunate & unnecessary & potentially illegal collusion is what the Auditor General has also found in 2000 wrt the culture within DFO: https://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/FA1-2000-3-15E.pdf

and again in 2018:

and Justice Cohen also found in 2012 that this dual mandate creates a conflict of interest, as it risks DFO prioritizing the interests of the aquaculture industry over the health of wild salmon populations

*AND*

There is a risk that DFO will be less rigorous in enforcing the Fisheries Act against the operators of salmon farms. As long as DFO has a mandate to promote salmon farming, there is a risk that DFO will act in a manner that favours the interests of the salmon-farming industry over the health of wild fish stocks. The only way to address this potential conflict is by removing from DFO’s mandate the promotion of salmon farming as an industry and farmed salmon as a product, and by transferring the promotion of salmon farming to a different part of the Executive Branch


and independent scientists have also found the same issues:

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2022-0286

One other thought, for all the data do FFs count the dead fish? Or state the reason for die offs?
Timing, when smolts get hit with sea lice, could the date have an effect? spring vs fall? Is there information on dates when sea lice profligate?

Could FFs be incubators for sea lice?
 
One other thought, for all the data do FFs count the dead fish? Or state the reason for die offs?
Good questions, Fishing?

Short answer is “yes” to all of them.

Slightly longer answers are:

Mortalities: Fish farms do count their dead fish when they clean the morts up – which may be a few days in between return trips to that specific cage by the divers. They have a decent estimate as to how many fish are in which cages. So, they do have a decent estimate of mortalities – forensically – a few days down the road.

But reporting depends on definitions/semantics contained within the Fish Health Management Plan submitted to DFO; while actions are described in the private, proprietary Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs).

A “Mortality event” is defined as:

FW Facilities:
  • Fish mortalities with losses exceeding 4% of the current facility inventory within a 24-hour period; or
  • Fish mortalities exceeding a 4% cumulative loss within a 4-day period.
SW facilities:
  • fish Mortalities or losses reaching 1% of the current Stock Inventory, within a 24 hour period; or
  • fish Mortalities or losses reaching 2.5% of current Stock Inventory, within a five Day period.
Presumably, the rate that triggers a response is higher in the FW facilities because they are dealing with fry/smolts which can have a higher mortality rate. But that is not always the case - and it is unclear how DFO came up with these metrics for mortality responses in their Conditions of Licence.

An “Infectious Outbreak” means an occurrence of disease in a population, as determined by the attending veterinarian, with the indicating morbidity or mortality rate substantially higher than its normal level;

Fish Health Event” (FHE) means an active disease occurrence or a suspected infectious event on a farm that triggers an action, such as: lab work-up, recommendation/report, husbandry change, veterinary diagnosis or prescription medication, further investigation, etc. where such action is intended to reduce or mitigate impact and risk associated with that occurrence or event. FHEs do not include routine fish health sampling, surveillance or growth measurement activities;

The licence holder must notify the DFO immediately upon discovery a mortality event, and shall provide a complete written report of the mortality event not later than 10 calendar days following the event to DFO.

If a mortality event is evident, the licence holder must ensure that:

  • The Veterinarian, the fish health staff and DFO are immediately notified as per SoPs;
  • Action is taken to manage and minimize the event;
So, if the mortality/die-off exceeds that magic predetermined % - call in the company vet bound by his client-patient relationship to privacy – and he makes the decision about what to do. And only DFO knows and nobody else including independent researchers are notified - and nobody is given a chance to concurrently test adjacent wild stocks as to infection dynamics even though that outbreak is not contained within that ONP facility and has the potential to impact adjacent wild stocks.

NOTE: PRv is both highly prevalent and a slow burner (low mortality rate) within Atlantic stocks. We really don’t know how badly it affects adjacent wild salmon stocks.

Timing, when smolts get hit with sea lice, could the date have an effect? spring vs fall? Is there information on dates when sea lice profligate?
Sea Lice: (NOTE: I haven’t checked on the latest sea lice stats in some years – so I hope what I relay is still current. Maybe the industry pundits patrolling here can correct this post if things have changed substantially).

The timing/intensity of sea lice monitoring by industry depends upon whether or not is Routine Monitoring, Threshold exceedance; Pre-treatment, or Follow-up – but typically ev. ~2 weeks. DFO also completes sea lice audits quarterly.

The seasonal “windows” also dictate more rigid sea lice monitoring for industry as DFO’s Conditions of Licence for aquaculture require strict ongoing inspection of farmed fish to monitor sea lice levels and implementation of management measures so that sea lice numbers are at their lowest during the outmigration of wild juvenile salmon, from March 1 to June 30 of each year.:
  • Non-migration window: July 1 – January 31 Counting Event once per month;
  • Pre-migration window: February 1 – February 29 Counting Events biweekly;
  • Out-migration window: March 1 – June 30 Counting Events biweekly.
The Licence Holder must follow all area-based and site-specific sea lice thresholds prescribed in their licence. If those area-based and site-specific trigger thresholds do not exist, the following sea lice threshold will apply: an average of 3.0 motile Lepeophtheirus salmonis.

the Licence Holder must bring the sea lice levels below the trigger threshold within 42 Days Upon Discovery of an exceedance.

Generally, I feel the industry does a decent job of sea lice reporting to DFO on their fish (i.e not the adjacent wild stocks), although there have been some critiques:




Sea lice don’t like fresher water, and their developmental stage from eggs to motile, reproductive adult stages that release naupliar stages of free-floating sealice that can infect adjacent wild stocks is dependent upon temperature.

So, higher temperatures and saltier water generally produces more sea lice for outmigrating wild salmon smolts that then have to swim through those sea lice plumes for some dozens of km from ONP FFs.
Could FFs be incubators for sea lice?
Guess that's one of those slap head with hand questions designed to illustrate the latest lunacy from some DFO staff.

We have known the answer to that question for ~25 years now - and it is simply "YES"! I have ~1200 pdfs on sea lice; ~1/2 are actual reports of sea lice amounts by areas across the planet on both farmed & wild stocks; ~20-30% recognize and affirm those impacts on wild stocks - and maybe 2% try to deny the connection like the latest & greatest from Jones et al.

The words: "sea lice wild salmon impacts" typed into Google scholar returns "About 19,400 results":

All the other jurisdictions across this planet that have ONP aquaculture (e.g. Scotland, Ireland, Norway, etc.) have acknowledged those impacts for decades now, also.

The question isn't if it sea lice transfer happens - but rather is it bad enough for population-level impacts to adjacent wild salmon. Generally, the answer to that question is yes- but not necessarily every year in every area. Lots of noise in the ocean, and do a search for "ocean survival rates" on this forum and those caveats will pop out.
 
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