SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
Taking ff out of ocean isnt saving wild salmon ffs
Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread
- Thread starter islandboy
- Start date
Taking ff out of ocean isnt saving wild salmon ffs
G
gone fishin
Guest
Leaving Fish Farms in the ocean will only kill more salmon with their sea lice and disease.
There are no easy answers to ensuring the survival of our wild salmon, but for sure leaving Fish Farms in the ocean will only add to the problem.
For me - it is a complex topic wrt biology, oceanography, politics, regulation, oversight and enforcement - but I can't see where anyone could responsibly defend the lack of risk assessment and management wrt impacts to adjacent wild stocks.
That has been the elephant in the room for ~30 years that the regulators and the industry they protect and hide don't wish to discuss - let alone admit even tho other industries have been forced into environmental assessments - while this industry in the water has been exempt from it for years.
And I am convinced that the regulators understand that if they are forced into that process - the open net-pen industry will be unable to operate as they have been with free pumping, free sewerage disposal and free real-estate. And those regulators would be out of a job; political parties and politicians would loose campaign contributions; and the multinational corporations wouldn't be able to kick their shareholders a return on their investments and their share prices would drop.
It's all about the money at the end of all this debate. The status quo preserves the expected gravy train.
That has been the elephant in the room for ~30 years that the regulators and the industry they protect and hide don't wish to discuss - let alone admit even tho other industries have been forced into environmental assessments - while this industry in the water has been exempt from it for years.
And I am convinced that the regulators understand that if they are forced into that process - the open net-pen industry will be unable to operate as they have been with free pumping, free sewerage disposal and free real-estate. And those regulators would be out of a job; political parties and politicians would loose campaign contributions; and the multinational corporations wouldn't be able to kick their shareholders a return on their investments and their share prices would drop.
It's all about the money at the end of all this debate. The status quo preserves the expected gravy train.
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
Isn't everything about $ , have a look at the industries/ growth destroying the mighty Fraser and almost every othe river up and down the coasts of North America
Give us all your honest answer will you aa?
Will wild salmon be saved by removing open net ff?
Yes SF - its ALWAYS about the money.
And this so-called "transition plan" isn't really so much about transitioning the industry from it's current reliance on the open net-cage technology (with free pumping free sewerage disposal and free real estate) that intimately connects it to adjacent wild salmon thru water flow - but it is really about transitioning DFO Aquaculture and DFO oversight/focus/priorities in general.
That is an almost impossible job - which is why everything keeps getting watered down and stalled - due to the all too obvious and painful conflicts of interest, collusion & corruption within DFO.
And Onefish is correct - if there was a single example in the World where the ONPA industry didnt have negative impacts on adjacent existing wild salmon - we would have heard about that many years ago thru the industry's extensive PR machine as well as thru the copious science that has demonstrated impacts which has been posted page after page in this thread and others on this forum, and in the science literature.
And this so-called "transition plan" isn't really so much about transitioning the industry from it's current reliance on the open net-cage technology (with free pumping free sewerage disposal and free real estate) that intimately connects it to adjacent wild salmon thru water flow - but it is really about transitioning DFO Aquaculture and DFO oversight/focus/priorities in general.
That is an almost impossible job - which is why everything keeps getting watered down and stalled - due to the all too obvious and painful conflicts of interest, collusion & corruption within DFO.
And Onefish is correct - if there was a single example in the World where the ONPA industry didnt have negative impacts on adjacent existing wild salmon - we would have heard about that many years ago thru the industry's extensive PR machine as well as thru the copious science that has demonstrated impacts which has been posted page after page in this thread and others on this forum, and in the science literature.
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
You must be a politician with that answer , thanks, again
Will wild salmon be saved by removing o.n.ff?
Yes or no?
Onefish is correct and I'll expand, everything humans do is detrimental to our surroundings..
As you aa say, Water flows, so does air,
Not going to stop another country from raping and pillaging, and polluting
No that doesnt mean we should, that does mean in the end what we do will have little effect on the grand scheme of things.
Look north and west!
FF will not be coming out of the water anytime soon! Bets?
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As soon as the election promise came out about removing ONPFFs I was skeptical always responding with the "we'll see" comment. With all things politics it really matters not about which party is currently getting overblown pensions but instead: "follow the money". Much is unseen and instead covered thru back-door meetings in Ottawa and elsewhere with lobbyists and lawyers.
There's well over 130 pages in this thread alone (and other threads) that details mine and many others posters thoughts along with the available science on FF impacts to adjacent wild stocks. There's a search button at the top of every page that one can use to find these often complex responses, SF - if you are truly interested.
There's well over 130 pages in this thread alone (and other threads) that details mine and many others posters thoughts along with the available science on FF impacts to adjacent wild stocks. There's a search button at the top of every page that one can use to find these often complex responses, SF - if you are truly interested.
G
gone fishin
Guest
How about an honest answer from you SringFever
Do Fish Farm sea lice and disease kill wild salmon
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
Natural sea lice that come from the ocean and disease from a hatchery born fish..I'm no scientist nor am I a ff worker, I'm also no US born Canadian ff industry hater, but I'd bet there are some side effects as there are from everything we do.
Wonder if more wild salmon are killed by "sustenance" sportfishers(which I am), commercial, and 1st nations nets?
Has Aquaculture Improved? Yes!
Has ff decimated wild salmon?, not to the extent that some would want us to believe, trying to get onpff out of ocean will not change a dam thing with wild salmon.
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
Question? , how does sport, commercial, 1st nation net fishing, logging? , cities? or any other commercial human activity benefit wild salmon?..................
ship happens
Crew Member
I think almost anyone can agree that open net pen farms are unhealthy for the entire system, not just one species that lives or moves through that area. Anytime you have a huge number of fish like salmon in a small area that cannot move around the sealice congregates there. They multpliply rapidly that is not natural for the environment in which they are natural to be. It's not really an argument because it's been proven. So I think between that as a fact and the other things such as the food and the drugs in that food that goes into the eco system where wild things live, It's enough for me to say that open net farms are a terrible thing.
@SpringFever552 You are right that they are not the reason alone. However they are not good. Not good for anything that lives in the ocean in its natural environment. All the way down to the micro organisms. The sealice effect the salmon more than any other species. I don't know the answer to that as to why. I'm sure it has to do with their skin type and where they travel but that's just my guess. They don't seem to effect any other species of fish to my knowledge however that's another topic all together
@SpringFever552 You are right that they are not the reason alone. However they are not good. Not good for anything that lives in the ocean in its natural environment. All the way down to the micro organisms. The sealice effect the salmon more than any other species. I don't know the answer to that as to why. I'm sure it has to do with their skin type and where they travel but that's just my guess. They don't seem to effect any other species of fish to my knowledge however that's another topic all together
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G
gone fishin
Guest
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
What did you mean when you said
" I'm also no US born Canadian ff industry hater"
So it is fair to say you support Fish Farms and feel they do not impact wild salmon in a negative way and don't accept the science that clearly shows concentrated Fish Farm Sea Lice and disease have an impact on salmon passing thru nearby waters, just like covid spreads in large concentrated group of people in a confined area like we are seeing in China in particular.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on Fish Farms.
You seem to think wild salmon are doomed no matter what?
Posted by a born and bred Canadian who feels we are selling out to mostly foreign owned Fish Farms at the expense of wild salmon for the profit of a few and at the expense of the majority.
ship happens
Crew Member
Think he's referring to Alexadra Morton being not born here. Who gives a hoot. More than half of the population of Canada wasn't born here, not only that Canada is the youngest country in the world lol. Where you think everyone came from?
It's a dog-whistle for the FF pundits and yet another deflection, SH. They want to paint a external threat originating outside of Canada - while defending multinational FF corporations. The contradiction/hypocrisy somehow escapes them - or they don't wish to acknowledge it.
Other disingenuous purposely misleading deflections include:
1/ Doesn't matter if we kill wild salmon - everyone else does too (i.e. look over there),
2/ Reversing the burden of proof,
3/ Shooting the messenger,
4/ lying, etc.
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SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
If you re-read what i said, yes I beleive there are negative effects from ff, cant think of anything we humans do in any other industries that is GOOD for the environment.
I also believe ocean ff has a place in this world and has seen leaps and bounds in technology and is nothing like its infancy.
ff are here to stay,
were they perfect in the past NO ,
are they improving? YES
Taking ff out of ocean will NOT save wild salmon
In time humans will be extinct and the earth will be better of for it.
G
gone fishin
Guest
Sorry if this post looks like I am being antagonistic but the last line in your quote says a lot about how you must feel
" In time humans will be extinct and the earth will be better of for it."
The extension of that thought is we can't save Wild Salmon so lets leave the Fish Farms in the ocean regardless of how many Wild Salmon they kill.
Yes Fish Farms have come a long way from day 1 when they were saying the same thing that they say now.
Fish Farms do not impact Wild Salmon.
It was a lie then and is a lie now. Fish Farms are still killing wild salmon with their Sea Lice and Disease,
On another thought I hope 2023 is a healthy and prosperous year for you and all the members of this forum
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
If you re-read what i said, yes I beleive there are negative effects from ff, cant think of anything we humans do in any other industries that is GOOD for the environment. - Not true what about organic farming for instance? Also just because some industries are bad for the environment does not make an excuse for net pen fish farms and their negative impacts - weak argument.
I also believe ocean ff has a place in this world and has seen leaps and bounds in technology and is nothing like its infancy. - Your biased opinion only.
ff are here to stay, Yes, but most likely NOT in water if the areas cares about the aquatic environment. Just like most areas don't dump raw sewage into the water because it is cheap and convenient!
were they perfect in the past NO , - Agree lots of evidence for this!
are they improving? YES - BUT still have enough serious problems as evidenced but the dozens if not hundreds of peer reviewed articles and reports that AA and others have posted on this forum. Why not take some time the read them and one may learn to understand and appreciate why a growing number of people are against net pen fish farms.
Taking ff out of ocean will NOT save wild salmon - Really? What makes you so sure? Just another biased opinion that is NOT supported by ever growing research.
In time humans will be extinct and the earth will be better of for it. - Wow, that is a positive attitudeAccording to this position since we are going to destroy ourselves it's ok to wreck the environment in the process for selfish, short sighted, profit driven reasons. Can't help but call this out as a hopeless, selfish, shortsighted attitude that screws our children and grandchildren and so on... My 2 bits.
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SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
are they improving? YES - BUT still have enough serious problems as evidenced but the dozens if not hundreds of peer reviewed articles and reports that AA and others have posted on this forum. Why not take some time the read them and one may learn to understand and appreciate why a growing number of people are against net pen fish farms.
No thanks @Whole in the Water ..
you cant see that its OBVIOUS AA is a paid shill to copy and paste for the anti Canadian ff lobby..
Would love to see just 1 pic from "him,her,they" in an actual fishing report!
Yes ,lets trust your, his ,her, their expert peer reviewed studies..
www.irishtimes.com
Happy New Year all !
No thanks @Whole in the Water ..
you cant see that its OBVIOUS AA is a paid shill to copy and paste for the anti Canadian ff lobby..
Would love to see just 1 pic from "him,her,they" in an actual fishing report!
Yes ,lets trust your, his ,her, their expert peer reviewed studies..
Beware of forensic experts expressing certainty
Expert witnesses sometimes express certainty when there is room for doubt
Happy New Year all !
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