SVOP & PCOC Do you need both?
- Thread starter BearCove
- Start date
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Excellent. Standing By...
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Ohhhh Transport Canada!!! LOL [
]
www.serengetifishingcharters.com
*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
]www.serengetifishingcharters.com
*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
fishingbc
Active Member
Just trying to clear things up for EVERYONE from someone at TC that actually knows whats what.....is quite obvious that the underlings in the TC chain of command are not up to speed with the CURRENT directives from their bosses....so if I can post something here "in writing" from the powers that be to clear this whole mess up I will....I still think a VANCOUVER ISLAND GUIDES ASSOCIATION is the way to go....say 20 bucks each or whatever to cover costs....then arrange to have TC...DFO...RCMP Marine...etc contact the association with TC info, important fishing regs and info etc then it goes to everyone with the push of a button from one source....no confusion, no bullsh**t....quote:Originally posted by SerengetiGuide
Ohhhh Transport Canada!!! LOL [
www.serengetifishingcharters.com
*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck
searun
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that TC would not have all the courses listed on your Self Inspection Check List crewing requirements in the following order if they are not in some cases required (note - I have added in which are required based on my reading of the Inspection Program Guide):
Master Limited - not required unless over 5 GT or 8 meters
SVOP - Required for Charter fishing
SVMO (Small Vessel Machine Operator)-not required for charter fishing
PCOC - Required unless SVOP and NCII waters up to 25 miles offshore
MED - Basic safety required (MED A2 for shelterd; MED A3 non sheltered)
ROC (see page 8 of Self Inspection Guide) We need the ROC M for sheltered waters and the ROC MC for non-sheltered waters
So I can understand all the confusion, but the crewing requirements say it all. Further if you read the Inspection Program Guide in detail on page 9 it specifically states the requirements and I quote for those who don't believe it:
0 - 5 GT Vessel Operating in NCII and Sheltered Waters you require:
For 0 - 5 GT Vessel Operating in NCII (within 25 miles from Shore)
* SVOP required after Nov 7, 2009 - BOTH passenger and non-passenger vessels
Over 5 GT - Limited Master 60 ton - Both passenger and Non-Passenger vessels
Note SVMO - Restricted License is a requirement for engineering personnel
Note - MED training is a basic Marine Emergency Duties training requirement as follows:
5 GT or less carrying 6 passengers or less
* Sheltered waters - PCOC
* Near Coastal II - MED A2
So, what I gather from all this is for most guides operating vessels less than 8 meters and 5 GT you need to have at minimum both PCOC and SVOP as operating licenses given we all operate in a variety of waters. The MED A course level requirement depends upon what waters you are operating in, but frankly why not just get the top MED A3 course and be done. The Radio Operator Certificate again depends upon which area you operate within.
Hope this helps clear up the confusion
Searun
Master Limited - not required unless over 5 GT or 8 meters
SVOP - Required for Charter fishing
SVMO (Small Vessel Machine Operator)-not required for charter fishing
PCOC - Required unless SVOP and NCII waters up to 25 miles offshore
MED - Basic safety required (MED A2 for shelterd; MED A3 non sheltered)
ROC (see page 8 of Self Inspection Guide) We need the ROC M for sheltered waters and the ROC MC for non-sheltered waters
So I can understand all the confusion, but the crewing requirements say it all. Further if you read the Inspection Program Guide in detail on page 9 it specifically states the requirements and I quote for those who don't believe it:
0 - 5 GT Vessel Operating in NCII and Sheltered Waters you require:
- PCOC required after Nov 7, 2009
- SVOP required after Nov 7, 2009
- PCOC required after Nov 7, 2009 - IF NOT carrying passengers
For 0 - 5 GT Vessel Operating in NCII (within 25 miles from Shore)
* SVOP required after Nov 7, 2009 - BOTH passenger and non-passenger vessels
Over 5 GT - Limited Master 60 ton - Both passenger and Non-Passenger vessels
Note SVMO - Restricted License is a requirement for engineering personnel
Note - MED training is a basic Marine Emergency Duties training requirement as follows:
5 GT or less carrying 6 passengers or less
* Sheltered waters - PCOC
* Near Coastal II - MED A2
So, what I gather from all this is for most guides operating vessels less than 8 meters and 5 GT you need to have at minimum both PCOC and SVOP as operating licenses given we all operate in a variety of waters. The MED A course level requirement depends upon what waters you are operating in, but frankly why not just get the top MED A3 course and be done. The Radio Operator Certificate again depends upon which area you operate within.
Hope this helps clear up the confusion
Searun
P
powder
Guest
Just to clarify Searun, the MED 3 is the lowest level MED, the MED 2 is the highest level certificate, a four day course, verses a one day course for the Med 3
Tailspin
Active Member
I have the Med A1 and A2 which were time consuming, however back 5 years that is what was required, now just the one day A3 does the trick, for now! Seems things have been a tad inconsitent over the years.
www.tailspincharters.com
www.tailspincharters.com
quicksilver11
Member
I contacted Parksville Power Squadron emailed a copy of my TC certificate and they sent me the PCOC in the mail. Not sure but you may be able to do the same, as you are already proving competence and have the needed training by having the SVOP which is one step higher than the PCOC. Just needed to pay $21.00 or so for shipping and the certificate. It also says in the TC website (under training certificates)that SVOP is proof of competency when operating a pleasure craft. Hope this helps!!
quicksilver11
Member
If you go to TC website search PCOC look in Pleasure Craft Operators - Personnel Training, Examination. It seems to explain it pretty good. Near the bottom there is a link to a list of proof of compentency. This is part of the list.
Training Certificates:
1.Basic Safety and Operator Proficiency for Small Non-Pleasure Craft in Sheltered Waters (MED A4) issued under the Marine Certification Regulations.
2.Small Vessel Operator Proficiency (SVOP) training certificate issued under the Marine Personnel Regulationsor a SVOP card issued by Transport Canada.
Ironoggin if it was not Canadian issued I do not think it would be valid.
Training Certificates:
1.Basic Safety and Operator Proficiency for Small Non-Pleasure Craft in Sheltered Waters (MED A4) issued under the Marine Certification Regulations.
2.Small Vessel Operator Proficiency (SVOP) training certificate issued under the Marine Personnel Regulationsor a SVOP card issued by Transport Canada.
Ironoggin if it was not Canadian issued I do not think it would be valid.
Sitkaspruce
Well-Known Member
I read the same thing and if I understand the wording, holding a SVOP and Med3 is good enough and is the same as having a PCOC.
Do I have to apply for the PCOC still, and use a copy of my SVOP to receive my "free" PCOC???
Or do I still have to take the stupid course....again???
And is holding ROC 100 good enough for marine? They use the same book.
Cheers
SS
finaddict
Well-Known Member
PROHIBITIONS
3. (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate a pleasure craft unless the person
(a) is competent to operate the pleasure craft in accordance with section 4; and
(b) has proof of competency on board.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who
(a) is operating the pleasure craft under the supervision of an instructor as part of an accredited course;
(b) is not a resident of Canada and whose pleasure craft is in Canada for less than 45 consecutive days;
(c) was born before April 2, 1983, has proof of age on board and operates a pleasure craft of at least 4 m in length before September 15, 2009; or
(d) has proof on board that they hold a MED-A4 certificate or any certificate referred to in paragraphs 2(a) to (s), (z.18) or (z.43) of the Marine Certification Regulations.
(2.1) No owner, master, operator, charterer, hirer, person in charge of a pleasure craft or person who makes a pleasure craft available for rent shall allow a person to operate the pleasure craft unless that person is a person referred to in subsection (1) or (2).
(3) A person referred to in paragraph (2)(b) or 4(2)(b) shall not operate a pleasure craft without proof of residency on board the pleasure craft.
(4) Except where replacing a previously issued card or issuing a card to a person providing proof that they hold a MED-A4 certificate or any certificate referred to in paragraphs 2(a) to (s), (z.18) or (z.43) of the Marine Certification Regulations, no course provider shall issue a Pleasure Craft Operator Card to a candidate unless the provider or their agent has administered a test meeting the requirements of section 7 to the candidate.
SOR/2002-18, s. 2; SOR/2007-124, s. 2, err., Vol. 141, No. 15.
COMPETENCY
4. (1) Subject to subsection (2), a person is competent to operate a pleasure craft
(a) if the person has received a mark of at least 75 per cent on a test and has been issued a Pleasure Craft Operator Card;
(b) if the person had successfully completed a boating safety course in Canada before April 1, 1999 and has a Boating Safety Course Completion Card or other written proof of that completion;(c) in the case of a rented pleasure craft,
(i) only for the rental period, if both the person who makes the pleasure craft available for rent and the person who will operate the pleasure craft complete and sign before the pleasure craft is operated, a rental boat safety checklist that contains the information referred to in section 8, or
(ii) if the person meets the condition set out in paragraph (a) or (b).
(2) A person who is not a resident of Canada is competent to operate a pleasure craft if the person
(a) has proof of competency as set out in subsection (1); or
(b) has been issued a certificate or other similar document by the person’s state or country of residence attesting that the person has acquired the boating safety knowledge required by the state or country.
I completed the Power Squadron Course in 1977 and have a laminated copy of my certificate as well as my wallet card on board. My proof of competency is well documented on both of my boats, I think I am ok. Opinions?
3. (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate a pleasure craft unless the person
(a) is competent to operate the pleasure craft in accordance with section 4; and
(b) has proof of competency on board.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who
(a) is operating the pleasure craft under the supervision of an instructor as part of an accredited course;
(b) is not a resident of Canada and whose pleasure craft is in Canada for less than 45 consecutive days;
(c) was born before April 2, 1983, has proof of age on board and operates a pleasure craft of at least 4 m in length before September 15, 2009; or
(d) has proof on board that they hold a MED-A4 certificate or any certificate referred to in paragraphs 2(a) to (s), (z.18) or (z.43) of the Marine Certification Regulations.
(2.1) No owner, master, operator, charterer, hirer, person in charge of a pleasure craft or person who makes a pleasure craft available for rent shall allow a person to operate the pleasure craft unless that person is a person referred to in subsection (1) or (2).
(3) A person referred to in paragraph (2)(b) or 4(2)(b) shall not operate a pleasure craft without proof of residency on board the pleasure craft.
(4) Except where replacing a previously issued card or issuing a card to a person providing proof that they hold a MED-A4 certificate or any certificate referred to in paragraphs 2(a) to (s), (z.18) or (z.43) of the Marine Certification Regulations, no course provider shall issue a Pleasure Craft Operator Card to a candidate unless the provider or their agent has administered a test meeting the requirements of section 7 to the candidate.
SOR/2002-18, s. 2; SOR/2007-124, s. 2, err., Vol. 141, No. 15.
COMPETENCY
4. (1) Subject to subsection (2), a person is competent to operate a pleasure craft
(a) if the person has received a mark of at least 75 per cent on a test and has been issued a Pleasure Craft Operator Card;
(b) if the person had successfully completed a boating safety course in Canada before April 1, 1999 and has a Boating Safety Course Completion Card or other written proof of that completion;(c) in the case of a rented pleasure craft,
(i) only for the rental period, if both the person who makes the pleasure craft available for rent and the person who will operate the pleasure craft complete and sign before the pleasure craft is operated, a rental boat safety checklist that contains the information referred to in section 8, or
(ii) if the person meets the condition set out in paragraph (a) or (b).
(2) A person who is not a resident of Canada is competent to operate a pleasure craft if the person
(a) has proof of competency as set out in subsection (1); or
(b) has been issued a certificate or other similar document by the person’s state or country of residence attesting that the person has acquired the boating safety knowledge required by the state or country.
I completed the Power Squadron Course in 1977 and have a laminated copy of my certificate as well as my wallet card on board. My proof of competency is well documented on both of my boats, I think I am ok. Opinions?
BearCove
Crew Member
Hey Guys,
Just got off the phone with TC that I am dealing with for my self inspection. I was told and I now have an e-mail as my proof that I will keep on my boat that the SVOP trumps the PCOC, so if you have your SVOP you are good to go, even if you are on a pleasure trip. You must still carry the documents with you at all times though.
Bear Cove Cottages Sportsfishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
Just got off the phone with TC that I am dealing with for my self inspection. I was told and I now have an e-mail as my proof that I will keep on my boat that the SVOP trumps the PCOC, so if you have your SVOP you are good to go, even if you are on a pleasure trip. You must still carry the documents with you at all times though.
Bear Cove Cottages Sportsfishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
quicksilver11
Member
Sitkaspruce do not think you need it as long as you have proof of your other certificate onboard. At least thats the way it reads. I just jumped the gun as I was doing it when I was overseas.
beemer
Well-Known Member
I think you are going to find a lot of enforcement people out there this summer who won't have a clue what a SVOP is. Even though you don't need a PCOC if you have SVOP (sorry searun ) I would get it any way. I have my card in my tackle box and I figure it will save me a lot of hassles when I am on a pleasure trip.
Here is the link to the St. Johns ambulance online PCOC. $25.00
http://www.sja.ca/BCYukon/Training/OnlineCraftCourse/Pages/default.aspx
I really liked the idea of vacuum sealing your certificates. Good one!
beemer
) I would get it any way. I have my card in my tackle box and I figure it will save me a lot of hassles when I am on a pleasure trip.Here is the link to the St. Johns ambulance online PCOC. $25.00
http://www.sja.ca/BCYukon/Training/OnlineCraftCourse/Pages/default.aspx
I really liked the idea of vacuum sealing your certificates. Good one!
beemer
BearCove
Crew Member
Aren't the enforcment agencies that will be checking us this summer going to have to have their SVOP's along with all other required courses. I am assuming they will as they are working on work or commerical boats. Hence they will know what the couses are. I have heard of guys taking the SVOP courses with police in the course.
I personally am going to go meet my local enforcment, request that they come inspect my boat pre-season. Also inform them that I have all my documents in order and have gone through the self inspection program. Hopefully by doing this they will recognize me and my boat on the water this summer and move onto the next guy. Hope so anyways!
Bear Cove Cottages Sportsfishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
I personally am going to go meet my local enforcment, request that they come inspect my boat pre-season. Also inform them that I have all my documents in order and have gone through the self inspection program. Hopefully by doing this they will recognize me and my boat on the water this summer and move onto the next guy. Hope so anyways!
Bear Cove Cottages Sportsfishing Destination
www.bearcovecottages.ca
fishingbc
Active Member
Just received the e-mail from senior TC regarding original documents and PCOC....
re: original TC documents on small commercial vessels
" Originals are not required to be on board. Copies are fine, but if originals are requested they need to be produced in a timely manner "
" original documents should not be laminated, although laminated copies on board are ok"
re: whether working (guiding) or not, if you have a valid SVOP a PCOC is NOT required. SVOP Trumps it "
re: original TC documents on small commercial vessels
" Originals are not required to be on board. Copies are fine, but if originals are requested they need to be produced in a timely manner "
" original documents should not be laminated, although laminated copies on board are ok"
re: whether working (guiding) or not, if you have a valid SVOP a PCOC is NOT required. SVOP Trumps it "
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