Halibut - Coastwide Closure

[gyper]

I look at going out fishing as a day of fun and getting away from work,chores,etc.
If I am informed that too many fish of whatever species has been caught and it's time to put up a closure,then I have enough other things on my agenda to take up that time. GUIDES who have booked Hali trips, some which were probably were booked months in advance,what the heck are they to tell their clients??
bottom line for me,make this the last time we are screw** by d.f.o. and in 2009 have a REAL meeting about this rather than forum talk.
Black and white to me.

 

[Tailspin]

Thanks Noggin, your bang on, well said!



www.tailspincharters.com

 

[bee15]

liscencesales. and out of province people are not funding halibut. they spawn naturally and are managed by allcountries involved in fishing them. the alaskan guides have been cut back already the mega guide outfits are the ones of concern not the little guy guides. local sport fisherman are not a problem they just go fishing for local fish. i have seen these letters saying my friend is taking fish home for me and its just a scam, the money from liscense sales probably doesnt even cover dfos engine repairs for a year

 

[bee15]

if someone is making money off a public rescource, then i think the public has the right to know how much of that rescource is being used up. hence a log kept by commercial sportfishers

 

[OldBlackDog]

This is all about politics.The only way that the Fed's will deal with this is by public pressure put on them to resolve this.
This needs to be done by letters to them and copies in the local paper.

They screwed it up and now they should clean it up.

 

[fah cups]

I tell you what Iam just a sportfisherman, who pays his taxes, buys a fishin license. I take what I think I need and no more,sometimes I do well and other times not. I try and support the creel surveys thinking they will help the sporties. I have done some time working with Goldstream Hachtery.The bottom line for me is I love fishing and have done so for a life time. But like alot of you Iam so fed up with DFO politics that I will no longer report any of my catches to the creel surveys.This year by far has been the best year for local haly, so whats the problem?. Ya the commerical boys need to make a living{ but do they have to take all the catch?} ya we sporties like to catch and eat a haly. I see our local guides not really hurting the numbers of haly caught but you only have to go west to see wholesale slaughter of ping pong paddle sized haly and also further up Island. I will probaly p#ss off a few guys with this statement oh well but the truth can be seen @ the cleaning docks. Cheers Fc. PS Wolf seen the same old duds of the Island Pi@@ed off as well.

 

[fisher69]

Not at all the case for halibut. The halibut stocks along our coast are fairing right well these days, and to this point present no real conservation concerns related to numbers.

Nog;
I think you should keep up to speed a bit. Here is some reading for you http://www.iphc.washington.edu/halcom/default.htm. Look under the apportionment tab.

Summery: the IPHC (the group that does the science on Halibut) have said we have a truncated stock. that means not enough big fish around. the idea is to cut the BC quota in 1/2 and re-allocate it to Northern Alaska. Not sure if you have noticed but the Canadian allocation has dropped by almost 1,000,000lbs per year and going down again. Doesn't sound that healthy to me....

The crux of the matter is not that we are witnessing a decline in those populations, but rather How The Pie Is Divided. Currently the recreational sector is limited to 12% of the Total Allowable Harvest in Canada. This leaves 88% for the commercial long-line fleet.

You are right on this one. We need to change the split. The problem is most of the commercial quota in the last 10 years has been bought and sold. These people(commercial) like my neighbour have borrowed tons of money to aquire quota. It is how they make a living. To just change the split with no compensation would cause them to loose everything...including there house...not very fair. That being said the crux of the problem is not who has the fish but how do we the sports group raise enough money to buy these people out fairly and how do we limit people so there is enough fish to go around.

The commercial ladz as previously noted certainly desire us (the sporties) to get off the water, and heaven forbid we go over our minimal harvest number by even a smidge! Of course this translates to more catch for them.

Again not true. They don't want us off the water they just want to be bought out fairly. That being said the price of the lease to us (sporties) this year was the same price as what the commercial guys were paying.

Since when is 1,000,000 - 1,500,000 lbs over in 3 years a smidge.....

Any reduction in our catch will simply be realized as an available "excess" for the commercial folks.

The allocation for commercial is set at 88%. if the total quota goes down so does theirs. This does not translate to more catch for anybody. If anything it puts more pressure on the total available stocks.

 

[MyEscape]

I was at mettings and the ribbon cutting ceremony at Conuma Hatchery for phase one of an incredible new side channel which already has wild coho taking advantage of this new Nootka Sound Watershed Society undertaking. I will be in Tahasis next Saturday to meet with the Sports Advisory Board and I will report at that time. One conclusion I am already fairly confident about is you will see a coast wide 1 Hali per day limit period. As for what areas will be open when is still yet to be determined. The reduction in the sport fishing limits will also effect the commecial limits to as the over all number of allowable catch will greatly be reduced next year

Best Regards
Kevin

www.goldriverfishinglodge.com
www.moutchabay.com/
Email: h00kedonfishing@hotmail.com

 

[Nimo]

If our government deems it necessary to "buy them out" they can do it on the backs of all taxpayers. I have absolutely no interest as a sportsfisher in paying the commercial guys to stay home, and they do not own the stocks IMO. I will do what I need to to ensure that I do not directly pay for quota.

Are these some of the same guys that were bought out of the salmon industry? Buyouts, subsidies, EI, hatcheries primarily funded by sporties, everything in our ocean sold to the highest bidder and then WE PAY THEM TO STAY HOME?? Quite a racket really. Anyone that has gone into ANY commercial fishery in the past 10-20 years had better of done it with their eyes open.

You know what's going to happen now, next year we (sporties) will go out earlier and more often just to make good and sure we get our share and the result will be an even shorter season the next year (maybe Sept 30 close for 2009?) This problem has to be resolved in favour of the recreational sector which does and has always included the guides.

By the way, I only kept one 20 lb halibut this summer, I think my other halibut that I was leaving for another day were about 70-90 pounds and there should be perhaps 4 or 5 of them from the 07/08 season. Has anyone seen my fish?

 

[IronNoggin]

quote:Originally posted by fisher69

Nog;
I think you should keep up to speed a bit. Here is some reading for you http://www.iphc.washington.edu/halcom/default.htm. Look under the apportionment tab.

Summery: the IPHC (the group that does the science on Halibut) have said we have a truncated stock. that means not enough big fish around. the idea is to cut the BC quota in 1/2 and re-allocate it to Northern Alaska. Not sure if you have noticed but the Canadian allocation has dropped by almost 1,000,000lbs per year and going down again. Doesn't sound that healthy to me....

Actually I am quite aware of the "reasons" being trotted out to justify the reallocation of the Canadian TAC to Alaskan interests. And while there has been some slippage of large mature fish in the way of numbers, that is hardly the creation of the sports sector! Overall impacts generated by the commercial sector GREATLY outweigh those of any other, especially upon larger individuals. So, in your opinion, we</u> are to pay the piper for their aggressive fishing practices?

quote: That being said the crux of the problem is not who has the fish but how do we the sports group raise enough money to buy these people out fairly and how do we limit people so there is enough fish to go around.

It was initially the Liberals who decided to hand 88% of the halibut quota to the commercial sector. "Hand" in that this percentage of the catch was a GIFT</u>! The commercial sector paid nada, but certainly did reap rewards from such a benevolent move. The Liberals were soon followed by the Conservatives in this action. Between Hearn (DFO Minister of the moment) and John Duncan (North Island MP), the Cons (whom everyone thought would put an end to this nonsense) actually fast-tracked the move and cast it in stone.

And yes, I realize that the quotas have now largely changed hands amongst the fleet, most many times at exponentially increasing rates of exchange. The Gift became a Commodity, and one worth sufficient interest to attract a lot of "Big Interest Players". So, while I may feel for those smaller interests, the mom and pop shows that represent so little of the quota owners today, I do not believe that it is the responsibility of the recreational sector to purchase required access to a Public Resource that the government made private. Instead, it is IMHO time for the government to step up, accept responsibility for doing just that, and find an equitable solution the situation. A much more fair splitting of the pie is called for, and if buy-outs are the method so chosen, it is the responsibility of the government to absorb the related costs incurred. That of course would require an influx from General Revenue, riding on the backs of the the general taxpaying public as Nimo mentioned above. Regardless of how this might be achieved, I find it disgusting that we now are faced with "purchasing" access to a public resource simply because the government again screwed up. Ludicrous in fact!

quote: They don't want us off the water they just want to be bought out fairly. That being said the price of the lease to us (sporties) this year was the same price as what the commercial guys were paying.

Yes, they DO want us off the water. Guess it all depends who you chat with. I spend more than a little time rubbing shoulders with many who hold such Licences, and the common denominator in many of those discussions is just how to get shed to the sport fleet, and how to acquire the balance of the quota. While your experience may vary, I have seen this more than often enough to understand that to be the underlying thought there.

Of course the price of leasing quota will be the same as the commercial folks pay. They are the only ones in a position to sell any, and they ain't gonna give you nor I anything resembling a break.

quote:Since when is 1,000,000 - 1,500,000 lbs over in 3 years a smidge.....

Since comparing that amount over 3 years against the take (and occasional overages) achieved by the commercial fleet. The numbers you note are a mere drop in the bucket in comparison...

quote:The allocation for commercial is set at 88%. if the total quota goes down so does theirs. This does not translate to more catch for anybody. If anything it puts more pressure on the total available stocks.

Guess you missed the point I was making on this one. While were the overall quota to be reduced (as will happen again) every-one's catch rate will indeed be effected. Simple. Not what I was suggesting. The point being made is: Were we, the recreational sector, to reduce our catch rate under a stable TAC rate, the difference would be absorbed by the commercial fleet pretty well instantly. There would be no realized gain in reduced harvest. Therefor no reason for doing so at this juncture.

Bottom line: Between the Halibut Commission and our own Government, we have been painted into a tight corner, and have lost our right of access to a public resource that those particular entities turned private. Time to undo that little bit of nastiness, and come up with a fair distribution of the available harvest amongst all user groups. Gonna take some doing, gone too far down the pipe not to now. Unfortunately I don't see anybody, nor any political entity, with the cajones (read: backbone) to address the situation in any meaningful terms...

Likely what that all translates to is we ARE</u> about to get screwed once again (and again, and again, and...)

Nog

 

[Red Monster]

To me it makes no sense that private interests own a publice fishing resource. As has been pointed out, this needs to change, and I'm sure this could be done in fair way.

It terms of the quota system, it's my understanding that licences for hali now provide commercail fisherman an exclusive right to most of the hali stocks. In other words, because there are no more commercial licences being issued, those who own the licences have no real competition ...other than making sure that recreational fisherman don't catch their fish.

But as a recreational fisherman I'm expected to share what's left of the resource with all other recreational fisherman and pay for the pleasure. And to preserve the quota for the commercial folks, recreational fisherman should expect fishing restrictions. This makes no sense to me.

The sporties are forced to forever pay and compete with each other, and are forced to do so while greater and greater restrictions are imposed to make sure that sporties don't catch fish that belong to commercial fisherman? [}]

Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."

 

[Deewar25]

quote:Originally posted by fah cups

I see our local guides not really hurting the numbers of haly caught but you only have to go west to see wholesale slaughter of ping pong paddle sized haly and also further up Island. I will probaly p#ss off a few guys with this statement oh well but the truth can be seen @ the cleaning docks. Cheers Fc. PS Wolf seen the same old duds of the Island Pi@@ed off as well.

I see some serious implications starting here. I don't think you would p#ss off some of the west coast guys as it's simple fact that many can pull off limits every day - that amounts to them pulling in 10-20k lbs per year - multiply that by 50 guides and you have up to a million pounds accounted for. But that just happens to be the productivity of all the banks and I wouldn't blame them one bit - they are fishing legally, they are taking what licenses allow for.

As myescape said though, if there becomes a coastwide 1/day limit everywhere and that becomes the norm, what will they do with their charter business? My company takes us out to PR every year and I look forward to that more than anything else all year - but if we can only keep 1 a day, I have a feeling they won't take us out (the project manager is a hali man first and foremost). It is not really worth it for us, and the guides, to get out to the banks for such a small chunk of fish! So then what? The guides end up having to adjust focus - IF we still have our normal limit for salmon, they find themselves no longer running the full salmon/hali charters, and most people just signing up for the beach fishing at 1/2 the price. This will mean more beach pressure - much more bigger salmon taken out of the sea (after all, with the run to the banks often taking away from the salmon success, the # of salmon taken is no where near what it could be if the guides focused the beach at daybreak). That in turn will mean lower catches further to the south and probably salmon shutdown...sigh

Anything they try will likely put pressure elsewhere - unless they shut the whole coast down for everything AND for EVERYONE, don't bother messing at all if you ask me!

 

[richmake]

quote:Originally posted by Deewar25

quote:Originally posted by fah cups

I see our local guides not really hurting the numbers of haly caught but you only have to go west to see wholesale slaughter of ping pong paddle sized haly and also further up Island. I will probaly p#ss off a few guys with this statement oh well but the truth can be seen @ the cleaning docks. Cheers Fc. PS Wolf seen the same old duds of the Island Pi@@ed off as well.

I see some serious implications starting here. I don't think you would p#ss off some of the west coast guys as it's simple fact that many can pull off limits every day - that amounts to them pulling in 10-20k lbs per year - multiply that by 50 guides and you have up to a million pounds accounted for. But that just happens to be the productivity of all the banks and I wouldn't blame them one bit - they are fishing legally, they are taking what licenses allow for.

As myescape said though, if there becomes a coastwide 1/day limit everywhere and that becomes the norm, what will they do with their charter business? My company takes us out to PR every year and I look forward to that more than anything else all year - but if we can only keep 1 a day, I have a feeling they won't take us out (the project manager is a hali man first and foremost). It is not really worth it for us, and the guides, to get out to the banks for such a small chunk of fish! So then what? The guides end up having to adjust focus - IF we still have our normal limit for salmon, they find themselves no longer running the full salmon/hali charters, and most people just signing up for the beach fishing at 1/2 the price. This will mean more beach pressure - much more bigger salmon taken out of the sea (after all, with the run to the banks often taking away from the salmon success, the # of salmon taken is no where near what it could be if the guides focused the beach at daybreak). That in turn will mean lower catches further to the south and probably salmon shutdown...sigh

Anything they try will likely put pressure elsewhere - unless they shut the whole coast down for everything AND for EVERYONE, don't bother messing at all if you ask me!

deewar25 get's it.
If they shut the recreational sector limit to 1 halibut a day...you will see a huge change in our tourism dollars in BC and you'll see alot of stuggling fishing outfits/lodges go in the toilet.
I was totally in favor of the 2 day/possesion limit coastwide because it made perfect sence and i think we can all agree that it worked coastwide with minimal impact and all the while we left a third of the fish in the water in just one season.
The truth is... if this had anything to do with dwindling stocks and was all about conservation, most of us would agree that something would have to be done.
With the exception of a few area's in the south region, the stocks are great and those areas could be delt with with a slot limit or size restriction...not a daily limit change.
This is all about power and control and the commercial boy's want it just like in Alaska....


www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

 

[chris73]

Oh come on richmake: don't get me started on slot size limits for halis. Anybody who has fished for halis will agree that this is nonsense and totally impractical. We had this discussion here before a year ago or so - you show me how to tape measure a live hali and then release it unharmed if too small or big...! It can only be: to fish hali until you have your number limit or not to fish hali at all. And I want to fish for hali and not give my few halis per year to a processing plant where probably only half as much meat of my fish is used than if I fillet it carefully. I wished a rich angler would just keep fishing for halis until caught and then walk through the courts to reveal this foul deal all the way up to Supreme Court. This would give it the attention needed...

 

[richmake]

Like I've always said, I can take the heat.
I released a **** load of halibut last year and we measured almost every last one of them upon DFO's request.
The fact is, the release/survival rate on halibut is pretty darn(and DFO knows this) good if you compare it to say a chinook.The slot limit may or may not work, all I'm saying is that cutting the recreational sector down to 1 fish a day just won't work.




www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

 

[Red Monster]

There's got to be a better way then reducing it to one fish per day. That's going to hurt the sporties and charters big time. What's the point of running to Swiftsure and back for a one fish limit? A yearly limit, fine. Or at worst some closings. But let the guy who travels to the coast once a year for some fishing have a decent go at it.

Sport fishing in BC generates more than half of a billion dollars in economic activitey every year. We should be thinking of ways to enhance recreational fishing, not ways to screw it up. [xx(]

Remember, it's called "fishing," not "catching."

 

[Cuba Libre]

quote:There's got to be a better way then reducing it to one fish per day.

Yup- we could start by putting an annual limit on rec fishermen. And it would help if guides were not allowed to pass on "thier" daily catch to clients. Others I know have ideas too-- lets hear them.




20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[richmake]

I can't agree more with an annual limit for halibut...that should be the first step.
We should also be reducing our annual limit of chinook in half as well...it's crazy to think that people need that much chinook in a season...

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

 

[chris73]

Agree. Annual limit would work fine. It's just that I am not accepting the fact yet that we sporties should scale back again. They need to accommodate our increased demand by increasing our TAC share! After that has been accomplished I would accept any restrictions that are necessary due to conservation. Let's not cave in to early here...

 

[quicksilver11]

Maybe the by catch of the trawl fleet should be brought up they catch hundreds a day at times and are brought aboard in the net and fish pewed out the scuppers when the catch is sorted. When I was aboard personally watched as we caught over 400 in a 1.5 hour tow and 300 the next tow. With high motality rate. I know its a lot harder on the resource than a few sport fisherman.