Halibut - Coastwide Closure

quote:I am with Cuba on his point about guides keeping a limit and passing on to clients, this happens and is not talked about much in the industry.Thanks Cuba for bringing this valid point up.

This does happen but not very much I can tell you from me personally I dont give fish away if we get to that point of too many, ill take the smaller ones but I can tell you it happened once this year for me and thats it fishing was way too hard to "give" away our catch as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is by far one of the things you really should really not focus on and get back to the real problem of us as rec fisherman getting screwed.

If it is true that there is a sfab meeting in mid nov. people here on the froum instead of bitching about it on here better show up in FORCE and VOICE it to where it can do some good!!!!!!!!!

Ill be there for sure!!!!!!anyone else???? maybe we should get a petition going????ever thought of that???

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
 
I must be missing the boat,sorry about the pun, on this one.
Am I hearing that guides not only take customers fishing but at the same time they have their own rods out? Don't you have enough to do?
Man you guys must fall into bed as soon as you get home. [|)]
The more I hear about guiding the less glamorous it sounds.
 
quote:Originally posted by wolf

quote:I am with Cuba on his point about guides keeping a limit and passing on to clients, this happens and is not talked about much in the industry.Thanks Cuba for bringing this valid point up.

This does happen but not very much I can tell you from me personally I dont give fish away if we get to that point of too many, ill take the smaller ones but I can tell you it happened once this year for me and thats it fishing was way too hard to "give" away our catch as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is by far one of the things you really should really not focus on and get back to the real problem of us as rec fisherman getting screwed.

If it is true that there is a sfab meeting in mid nov. people here on the froum instead of bitching about it on here better show up in FORCE and VOICE it to where it can do some good!!!!!!!!!

Ill be there for sure!!!!!!anyone else???? maybe we should get a petition going????ever thought of that???

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

Belive me, I'll be there. Everyone who fishes better be there.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com
 
Hey Guys,

it may be a good idea to start another thread on this up and coming meeting. It is important that all attend and raise their voices.

I am not certain of the details myself otherwise I would take the initiative.

Thanks in advance!

HL
 
when is the meeting???



quote:Originally posted by wolf

quote:I am with Cuba on his point about guides keeping a limit and passing on to clients, this happens and is not talked about much in the industry.Thanks Cuba for bringing this valid point up.

This does happen but not very much I can tell you from me personally I dont give fish away if we get to that point of too many, ill take the smaller ones but I can tell you it happened once this year for me and thats it fishing was way too hard to "give" away our catch as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is by far one of the things you really should really not focus on and get back to the real problem of us as rec fisherman getting screwed.

If it is true that there is a sfab meeting in mid nov. people here on the froum instead of bitching about it on here better show up in FORCE and VOICE it to where it can do some good!!!!!!!!!

Ill be there for sure!!!!!!anyone else???? maybe we should get a petition going????ever thought of that???

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

iscootblue.png
 
quote:Originally posted by richmake

I can't agree more with an annual limit for halibut...that should be the first step.
We should also be reducing our annual limit of chinook in half as well...it's crazy to think that people need that much chinook in a season...

www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

I totally agree, the 30 spring limit (20 in some areas) need to be reduced to a level that sustains a family, but does not impact the species. This year, between the wife and I, we have 17 springs and 6 coho in the freezer. That will feed us for the year and allow me to smoke two springs and two coho for xmas for the parents and sister.

As for hali's, which this is all about, the yearly limit would fit people much easier than a daily limit and a shorter season. You will kill off most of the ma and pop guiding busineses if it was a one per day limit. Pretty hard to sell an early trip in say April/May for a fish each. Also how many hali's would end up floating around if, say the first was a 20 lbs and the next, becuse you can bet people will keep fishing until the boat limit is reached, is a 60+ lbs??? Most would release it, some will boat it for someone else, but some would not think twice about tossing the smaller one over board.

I also agree that we should not roll over just yet and see what comes of the next few meetings. If we are going to get screwed, then a different tack needs to be looked at and a proposal of a yearly limit put forward.

Lastly, is that MrTrailer just dressed in drag??? or is he thinking he will be good and not let his blood pressure....and mouth get the best of him...again

SS

Fishing08018-1.jpg
 
quote:Originally posted by wolf
Were in , Agree , maybe set up a seperate thread ,Get the word Out !! Cheers , FD...

I am with Cuba on his point about guides keeping a limit and passing on to clients, this happens and is not talked about much in the industry.Thanks Cuba for bringing this valid point up.

This does happen but not very much I can tell you from me personally I dont give fish away if we get to that point of too many, ill take the smaller ones but I can tell you it happened once this year for me and thats it fishing was way too hard to "give" away our catch as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is by far one of the things you really should really not focus on and get back to the real problem of us as rec fisherman getting screwed.

If it is true that there is a sfab meeting in mid nov. people here on the froum instead of bitching about it on here better show up in FORCE and VOICE it to where it can do some good!!!!!!!!!

Ill be there for sure!!!!!!anyone else???? maybe we should get a petition going????ever thought of that???


Were in , Agree , maybe set up a seperate thread ,Get the word Out !! Cheers , the Fog Ducker

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
[/quote]

the Fog Ducker

IMG_1356-1-1.jpg
 
Halibut was selling for $28.00 a kg at Country Grocer today. With that kind of money being thrown at fishermen you can imagine that the season will be shorter and shorter for Sporties. I cant wait until farmed halibut makes inroads into the market. Prices will drop and we can all go back to fishing our 2 fish.
 
Direct quote from Wolf, see above.
"This does happen but not very much I can tell you from me personally I dont give fish away if we get to that point of too many, ill take the smaller ones."</u>
 
YES I said it so what???? I have a liscence just like you am I not allowed to take a halibut for me????if my client has gotten his limit??????There is no difference its like you taking out friends who have NEVER got a fish and you are teaching(guiding) them to reel one in I am sure your going to let them reel in all the fish as you have done it lots before I would imagine.hhhhmmmmm its a thinker!!!!

Like I said earlier this happened only once this year and I was able to take some hali home for me boy what a concept going fishing and bring something home!!!!!!!!

Now to get back on track I have sent an e-mail away to get some info regarding a meeting ill let you all know when I learn something.

Good luck Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
 
Two fleets battle over allocation of halibut catch
FISHING: Decision by council could come as early as today.

By WESLEY LOY
wloy@adn.com

(10/03/08 04:45:00)
Federal fishery regulators meeting this week in Anchorage are trying again to end a 15-year battle between two competing fleets that hook halibut for a living.

The proposal now on the table would divide the available halibut between the commercial fishing fleet, which historically has caught the lion's share of the fish, and the charter boat fleet, which has been taking a growing share in recent years.

Commercial fishermen generally support the idea. But the charter boat captains are fighting it hard, saying the plan could drive up their expenses and leave their clients with fewer fish to take home.

One potential scenario would cut the daily bag limit for charter boat anglers from two fish per day to one.

"Don't let anybody tell you a charter operator can survive on one fish," said John Baker, a Ninilchik resident whose business, Afishunt Charters, runs four halibut boats.

Baker is among dozens of people testifying this week to the North Pacific Fishery Management Council, an 11-member federal panel of mostly government and industry representatives that helps regulate fishing off Alaska.

Council members are caught in the crossfire of an intractable issue -- how to keep two fleets happy chasing limited numbers of the big flatfish, which now are in a cyclical decline.

Neither side wants to give ground.

Commercial fishermen, who long have dominated Alaska's halibut catch, say they're deeply invested in boats and commercial fishing rights and can't afford to see their cash crop nibbled away.

But charter captains say they too need enough fish to pay their bills and keep their tourism-based businesses growing.

Over the years, the issue has vexed the council, which has tried but failed to establish a lasting peace between the two fleets.

And in harbors such as Homer and Sitka in the state's Southcentral and Southeast regions, where most of the charter boats operate, the conflict has spawned ugly animosity. One bumper sticker making the rounds at the council declares, "Die charter scum."

WHO SUFFERS MORE?

One commercial fisherman who testified to the council Wednesday was state Rep. Bill Thomas, a Haines resident who said he's been catching halibut for 35 years.

"My concern is we suffer together," Thomas said, expressing one of the commercial fleet's main points: That while commercial fishermen are strictly limited in the amount of fish they can catch each year, the charter fleet isn't.

So while government catch limits for halibut have been dropping with a declining halibut population, particularly in Southeast, the charter catch under the current rules can continue to grow unabated.

Charter captains counter that, well, the commercial fleet historically has caught most of the halibut and it shouldn't expect to keep hogging the fish.

SPLITTING THE CATCH

The proposal the council is weighing is a "catch sharing plan" to divide the available halibut between the two fleets. It wouldn't be a 50-50 split, as the commercial fleet still would retain most of the catch.

But plan supporters note the charter fleet's needs would be amply covered. Plus they're touting another feature that would allow charter captains to lease catch rights from commercial fishermen to get more halibut for their clients.

Many charter operators decry the leasing idea. They worry that if the government presses on with a related measure to cut the daily bag limit in Southeast to one halibut -- an action some charter fishermen have so far blocked with a court challenge -- they'll be forced to either lease halibut from commercial fishermen or lose clients.

Alaska Fish and Game Commissioner Denby Lloyd, a member of the council, said he's confident the council is working on a solution to the halibut war, at least for the near term.

"Really, what people are looking for is a degree of stability right now," Lloyd said.

The council could vote as soon as today on the catch sharing plan.
 
Sport anglers find shorter halibut season hard to swallow

MARK HUME

mhume@globeandmail.com

October 27, 2008

VANCOUVER -- When the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans suddenly announced last week that the sport fishing season for halibut was closing early, it sent a shudder along the West Coast.

With salmon stocks at historic lows, recreational anglers this year have increasingly turned their attention to halibut.

Guides and lodges especially have been counting on the bottom fish to get them through a poor salmon season, with many advertising their access to good halibut grounds.

But with two months left to go in the season, the DFO has announced fishing will be closed from Oct. 31 to Dec. 31. Guides will have to cancel any trips they have booked and lodges that are now selling next year's season at outdoor shows will have to explain to customers why this season has been cut short.

The Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia was quick to condemn the government, noting that in 2003, Robert Thibault, who was then fisheries minister in the Liberal federal government, introduced a halibut allocation policy that promised no in-season closings.

That policy, subsequently adopted by the Conservative government, split the annual allowable catch between the commercial fleet (88 per cent) and the recreational fleet (12 per cent).

Mr. Thibault said the new sharing agreement would balance the interests of the two sectors, allow the DFO to better manage stocks and provide for greater certainty because "there will be no closure of the sport fishery in-season."

But that was then, and now, as of Friday, some 300,000 recreational licence holders will no longer be allowed to go out for halibut.

"This decision represents the complete failure of government's halibut allocation policy in that recreational anglers are being told to stay home while commercial fishers will continue to harvest halibut," said Rob Alcock, president of the Sport Fishing Institute.

Mr. Alcock described the DFO's halibut allocation policy as "flawed beyond repair" and said it is causing undue hardship to recreational anglers.

But Sue Farlinger, regional director of Fisheries Management for the DFO, said that while the sudden closing is regrettable, it shows the policy is doing just what it was designed to do: provide better protection for halibut and greater stability for fishing sectors in the long run.

Ms. Farlinger said the closing is necessary because sport fishermen have taken far more halibut than was anticipated at the start of the season.

With salmons stocks down, more anglers have been going after halibut. The result is that sport fishermen have caught 300,000 pounds more than the limit set in the total allowable catch.

At the start of the season, the TAC for sport anglers was set at just over one million pounds. Through a one-season arrangement, the DFO then awarded an additional 150,000 pounds to the sport fleet, by in effect leasing allocation from the commercial TAC.

But even that bumped-up share wasn't enough, as sport anglers have now caught 1.45 million pounds of halibut.

The Sport Fishing Institute estimates that if recreational anglers were allowed to keep fishing they would catch only about 10,000 pounds of halibut over the next two months, less than what the commercial fleet took in a 24-hour period last week.

So shutting the sport fishery makes no sense from a conservation standpoint, the institute argues.

But it's more complicated than that. Among the things the government has to consider is what federal officials report when they sit down to a joint Canada-U.S. panel that manages halibut stocks.

Because halibut range across B.C.'s borders with both Alaska and Washington, the fishery is managed co-operatively, with TACs set in Canada and the United States each season for sport and commercial sectors.

Each country expects the other to stick to its TAC and is held accountable at the annual meetings.

"Well, if we were to say to anybody 'you're over quota but we're not going to close you because you're not going to take very much more,' you know, that's a bit of a difficult argument. We need to respond responsibly when the fishing plan is not functioning as it was intended to," Ms. Farlinger said.

She added that halibut stocks are in decline and that is added incentive to stay as close to the TAC as possible.

Given all that, it seems the DFO had little choice but to close the sport fishery for halibut.

And the worst may be yet to come for sport anglers. In the past, when the commercial fleet has exceeded its TAC, the DFO has deducted an equal amount from the catch allocated the next season.

That means next year sport anglers could see the one-million-pound TAC cut substantially. And if they keep fishing halibut with the same intensity as they did this year, the season could end much sooner.

[xx(]
 
"Halibut was selling for $28.00 a kg at Country Grocer today. With that kind of money being thrown at fishermen you can imagine that the season will be shorter and shorter for Sporties. I cant wait until farmed halibut makes inroads into the market. Prices will drop and we can all go back to fishing our 2 fish."

Roughly $10 per pound at the market, what's that to the commercial fisherman - maybe $2.00? A guide might get that in tips! How much did the motels, hotels, various tourism businesses, tackle stores etc etc get directly out of this business? This is all incidental to the catch. The government itself takes 5% directly in GST from most guided fishing. The commercial fleet would definitely be barkin' up the wrong tree to start talking value per pound.

Wolf: Not to beleager this point, but I don't think there are too many that are concerned if you take an occasional fish home for your family while on a charter. My personal opinion is that this is a perc of guiding.

It's the guides that give their daily catch to their clients each and every day that they are out somewhere like Swiftsure that many find distasteful - and I hear from guys that make that trip annually that this is routine. If 4 guys are allowed 8 fish, the day's catch is 10. And now when it is almost exclusively locals on the water, the season is closed. It has an effect.
 
Hmm thats too bad, i guess i should go hali fishing. :)

Take only what you need.
 
quote:It's the guides that give their daily catch to their clients each and every day that they are out somewhere like Swiftsure that many find distasteful - and I hear from guys that make that trip annually that this is routine. If 4 guys are allowed 8 fish, the day's catch is 10.

In Alaska the guides are not allowed to catch fish and give it to their clients. Which I think is a good idea. A friend of mine chartered out of Renfrew this summer and they got to take home the guides halibut and springs. That adds up. Still does not seem fair though that the lion share of the fish goes to the commercials. Although with wild halibut prices through the roof you wont see anyone giving up their allocations any time soon. Keep in mind that if farmed salmon disappeared you would not be allowed to sport fish springs at all. The price would shoot up to $30.00 a lb and they would all be sold to Japan. I can see a day where fishing will be like LEH hunting. You will need a draw to go fishing for springs. Grim.
 
That is really sad I know alot of my guide buddies dont but you just never know I guess, me personally I dont as for one it is against the law for someone to take an overlimit and travel with it.Most of my clients that I take out are really great people and most of them just want to go fishing and getting a few fish is great.

Renny is in a different world all its own it is a meat fishery and thats what people are going there forLIMITS period thats how it has been marketed and that why people go there it is no different than bamfield or gold river or any where on the west side.because as you know the water and the conditions are for the die hard fisherman/women.

wolf

Lets face it this is one big fng mess and I dont know if there is going to be a soulition any time soon

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
 
Guides providing there limit for guests are shooting themselves in the foot. You are chipping away at your own resource!
Also as stated by Wolf it is illegal for your guest to be in posession of more than their limit.
Tell your guest if they want more fish, come back anytime. (pretty simple marketing plan)

I think the regulations should be more area specific. The Renny (and places like it) meat fishery should be addressed to protect it for the future. I am not saying cut the limits or anything and I support the guides up there and anywhere else making an honest living.
Just put an annual limit on the hali catch per person and that should solve a lot of problems. Guides won't chip into their 10 fish by giving them away, people won't spend a week running limits of fish back to town and going back for more...

I don't think the Victoria/ Sooke area sees enough pressure to be caught up in this closure and cut backs.

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