Halibut-Closing on the 9th

when i heard halibut was closing on the ninth i went out and caught one small one; plan to go get one more soon; should be enough for the winter; i can catch a winter spring if i have to;buying quota by sporties will not help prolong the season much only help charter operators; let them buy there own as dfo wants or lease some for clients
 
when i heard halibut was closing on the ninth i went out and caught one small one; plan to go get one more soon; should be enough for the winter; i can catch a winter spring if i have to;buying quota by sporties will not help prolong the season much only help charter operators; let them buy there own as dfo wants or lease some for clients

You have a real commercial tone to all your post's. Just sayin'. More divide and conquer b.s.
 
i agree with spring fever 10 should be okay log them like spring salmon buy a halibut stamp if the surcharges help i dont think more quota is a real solution anyway commies are already sueing dfo over last quota changes so maybe they wont be changing anything soon
 
Commercial quota holders will sell quota, it happens all the time. I think that if it got to that point where the rec fishery was organized and in the position to buy quota than it would likely happen. Maybe there would be some reluctance there and some games at the beginning, but I think if the money was there it would happen.

As for where the money goes, etc...this has happened in the past and was organized throught the SFAB and funds were held by them and used to lease quota...no issues that I know of. Any of that type of arrangement would be through a 3rd party and the DFO likely wouldn't be involved in the monetary aspects of it. I doubt anyone would want to set it up as a general revenue kind of thing.

$100 stamp...some people would be game for that, but how the general public would support that, who knows. Might be steep. Lorne, even if it was $100 bucks and everyone did it we wouldnt see a real change until it happened a few years in a row, so we need to wrap our heads around the logistics of that.

The business plan to do this has been developed and the hang-up in the process is with Treasury Board in Ottawa, a very long story. But that's the way it has to go so....we'll see where it ends up.

I greatly appreacite your input. It means alot when guys like you post up here.

I just want to be clear. I dont thin we have any appetite to lease anything. We would want to OWN the quota out right with that money.

Lorne
 
sculpin you may be right i am sitting on the fence; many years a commercial fisherman but a sportsman for last 15 years so i can see both sides of the problem you maybe cannot whiners and complainers usualy get not much; sorry for being blunt; the problem was suposed to be solved last year; you won then stop your snivelling
 
... buying quota by sporties will not help prolong the season much only help charter operators; let them buy there own as dfo wants or lease some for clients

... you won then stop your snivelling

It appears some simply never will get it!
banghead.gif


Either that or simply trolling I guess... :p

Some interesting ideas coming out Folks.
Dunno about a $ 100 tag, seems a bit excessive for the Average Joe...

Brad does very much make a point regarding the economics of the situation, but we have to start somewhere...

Be VERY Interesting to see what the impending Court Case comes up with. I'm hoping they side where they should, and perhaps provide a base or lever for future allocations towards the Recreational Sector.

Cheers,
Nog
 
You may be jumping to conclusions, we pay $6.42 for a Salmon tag.
Do you really think it would be more than 10 bucks for a Halibut tag if it ever happened ?
 
Nice to see people talking about it.I think it needs to be discussed. with that said the thread got busy and pages are growing so I will bump my question as I do not know the answer and genuinely would like to know.

Do decisions like this one of buying quota get put to the local SFAC's for consideration and vote, or do they bypass input at that level and go straight from the main board?

Thanks: Ray
 
Ray, proposals like this can easily start at the SFAC level and make their way up to the main SFAB process. There are a number of other ways to advance this concept beyond the SFAB. Many organized recreational anglers work behind the scenes through their fishing clubs, associations etc. Belonging to one like the BCWF is a great place to start or an association such as the SFI. Gamechanger is well versed in the process of buying/selling quota (not leasing). It is possible for us to go down this road together. The reason I have personally reached this as the best alternative for the overall rec fishery is once we own quota we have the ability to ensure our current and future (don't forget the rec fleet is growing)needs are satisfied. We need to start thinking long term, so while it might take 10 years to raise enough cash to make a substantive difference in the quota, you really have to think about it as having a bank account earning compounding interest and the positive benefits of that into the future for you and future generations of rec anglers.

As for anyone suggesting the guides go it alone and purchase their own quota, yes that is attractive and makes good business sense as it secures the ability to market and sell trips. The economics of ownership at $50 - $60 per pound compounded over a 10 - 20 year business cycle actually works. However, I'm personally totally opposed to pursuing that option as it clearly would only serve to divide the recreational fishery and turn the west coast into an east coast style fishery - if you don't believe me, go try to catch a blue fin tuna....entirely a commercial fishery, nothing in the purest sense of recreational sport fishery. I don't want that here.

I would be very curious if Gamechanger could facilitate posting all the recreational halibut catch data so we can start having an open and transparent discussion regarding the true recreational catch, trends and potential opportunities to have input into the management of our fishery. Please.
 
i would pay ten bucks for a tag,, and i would hafta convince myself that in paying i am not buying quota, but paying for a legit form of tac calculations.. like a spring record..... and required to send in licence if halibut is retained....
 
Interesting that as a guide you want information on catches made public.
Well it would be great if the guides turned in their catch statistics for a start!
You should ask them why they do not do this?

As for the stats this information is available to the Halibut Group of the SFAB and if you were really interested you could get involved with them.

The people involved on behalf of the Halibut Group of the SFAB spend days working for free for your benefit.
You and others could step up and get involved in the SFAB process.
You would find out that a lot of these thoughts have been discussed and answers given.

Do you see the commercial sector talking about plans on a public site?
They love it when you do as they use it in their meetings and use it to stir up the pot.
They never will just like they do not invite you to their meetings. It is all about money.

They play hard ball as this is their living. It appears guides have a lot to learn on that front going by the stuff written on this and other sites.





Ray, proposals like this can easily start at the SFAC level and make their way up to the main SFAB process. There are a number of other ways to advance this concept beyond the SFAB. Many organized recreational anglers work behind the scenes through their fishing clubs, associations etc. Belonging to one like the BCWF is a great place to start or an association such as the SFI. Gamechanger is well versed in the process of buying/selling quota (not leasing). It is possible for us to go down this road together. The reason I have personally reached this as the best alternative for the overall rec fishery is once we own quota we have the ability to ensure our current and future (don't forget the rec fleet is growing)needs are satisfied. We need to start thinking long term, so while it might take 10 years to raise enough cash to make a substantive difference in the quota, you really have to think about it as having a bank account earning compounding interest and the positive benefits of that into the future for you and future generations of rec anglers.

As for anyone suggesting the guides go it alone and purchase their own quota, yes that is attractive and makes good business sense as it secures the ability to market and sell trips. The economics of ownership at $50 - $60 per pound compounded over a 10 - 20 year business cycle actually works. However, I'm personally totally opposed to pursuing that option as it clearly would only serve to divide the recreational fishery and turn the west coast into an east coast style fishery - if you don't believe me, go try to catch a blue fin tuna....entirely a commercial fishery, nothing in the purest sense of recreational sport fishery. I don't want that here.

I would be very curious if Gamechanger could facilitate posting all the recreational halibut catch data so we can start having an open and transparent discussion regarding the true recreational catch, trends and potential opportunities to have input into the management of our fishery. Please.
 
I have filled out my guide log book and handed into DFO every year for the last 5 years. This is all they have asked me for, if they want more info on catch records then put something place. They can't ***** about catch data if there isn't a program in place to collect it. I believe most guides would be more than happy to provide this info, will only benefit everyone in the long run.

Bottom line still is we need more TAC. I do not agree with any sector having to buy it back, it belongs to all of us. We need to come up with a long term solution that is going to work for every sector. This make take some time, years even but if we plan ahead and do it right we should all come out ok. Working together is the only way this is going to happen. Fighting between sectors, Rec virsus Guide/Lodges is only going to split us up, we need a combined fight. Worked for us last time, they listened that's for sure. Remember Harper in Campbell on Easter weekend to save Duncans butt? That happened because of us working together.
 
Sadly BearCove, this is not the case and most guides and operators are reluctant to give up good information. Some do but most don't. Lots of people say they will at the beginning of the season and when it comes down to the crunch and DFO needs good catch estimates, sadly most of the logbook data isn't what it could be. Garbage in garbage out as some may say.

Lets consider Catch Monitoring for example:
Lots of reasons why people feel they don't need/want to report good catch info, we don't need to get into that here.

But guess which group or groups love to take those poor catch reporting examples to the bank when allocation issues come up, sector negotiations, etc..? If you guys want to point fingers at other guys and say, oh what about them, or them, u better be able to look at your own sector first and not have too many blemishes to hide. Think not reporting catch helps you in the long run? NO. Couldn't be farther from the truth, you guys are actually hamstringing yourselves by doing this. This is not a cowboy fishery any more.

I'm not on here to try and persuade you guys to report catch because you should, I'm on here because I care about fish and our fisheries on a professional and a personal level. I think that the recreational sector needs to get rid of the paranoia, unite as a group and work with SFAB and the Department to pursue your interests as best as possible. Be professional about it.

Old Black Dog is right, the commies prob love this site, listening to a bunch of people bitchin, and them getting a certain perspective on issues because of what a few people say/write on here. If you want to *****, by all means continue, but if you want to change things - Searun is right - change is through the SFAB. All of our South Coast areas have local committees called SFAC's and they are part of the board. Bitching will likely get you no where, but the SFAB will.

Example:
For those of you who fished in Nootka this year I'm sure you noticed that I changed some of the boundaries there in 2012. That was done through the SFAC and the SFAB. Long story short - local area has an issue, I come up and check it out, bring some of the right people up to undestand what is going on and we discuss it. A request gets made at a committee meeting, is discussed, voted on it and is passed. The SFAC Area rep takes it to the South Coast SFAB level and presents the request, it gets voted on by the different SFAB chairs and it gets passed. The South Coast SFAB rep takes it to the Mainboard SFAB and does the same thing - it passes. Now DFO deals with it, because it's legit and supported by the process. It doesn't mean that whatever gets passed becomes gospel, it just means that DFO has to deal with it.

I take that to Science, Stock Assessment, C&P, First Nations, etc...figure out any issues relating to the request, and make recommendations. Some get changed some dont. But thats the process, and I don't get why you guys aren't all over that. If we could get more of you who really care enough about this stuff to take your opinions and time and move it from your computer screen to real life and plug it into the SFAB process it will only make it better.

Other organizations work too, like the BCWF - these organizations all feed into the SFAB process.

Searun, if you guys want to see halibut data I'm sure we can get that sent out. I'll look into that.
 
Ray, proposals like this can easily start at the SFAC level and make their way up to the main SFAB process. There are a number of other ways to advance this concept beyond the SFAB. Many organized recreational anglers work behind the scenes through their fishing clubs, associations etc. Belonging to one like the BCWF is a great place to start or an association such as the SFI. Gamechanger is well versed in the process of buying/selling quota (not leasing). It is possible for us to go down this road together. The reason I have personally reached this as the best alternative for the overall rec fishery is once we own quota we have the ability to ensure our current and future (don't forget the rec fleet is growing)needs are satisfied. We need to start thinking long term, so while it might take 10 years to raise enough cash to make a substantive difference in the quota, you really have to think about it as having a bank account earning compounding interest and the positive benefits of that into the future for you and future generations of rec anglers.

As for anyone suggesting the guides go it alone and purchase their own quota, yes that is attractive and makes good business sense as it secures the ability to market and sell trips. The economics of ownership at $50 - $60 per pound compounded over a 10 - 20 year business cycle actually works. However, I'm personally totally opposed to pursuing that option as it clearly would only serve to divide the recreational fishery and turn the west coast into an east coast style fishery - if you don't believe me, go try to catch a blue fin tuna....entirely a commercial fishery, nothing in the purest sense of recreational sport fishery. I don't want that here.

I would be very curious if Gamechanger could facilitate posting all the recreational halibut catch data so we can start having an open and transparent discussion regarding the true recreational catch, trends and potential opportunities to have input into the management of our fishery. Please.

The only problem I see with that, was, according to the policy that gifted quota to the commercial sectors, if guides are to be deemed commercial fishermen, then they should have been "gifted" quota while DFO was dishing it out.
 
Well, gamechanger, let's not fall from one extreme side to the other. How often have we passed a motion on certain very urgent topics here during SFAB south coast meetings with NO RESPONSE or even just consideration by DFO? And we are not talking about little patchwork issues like moving a rentention border over by a couple meters - we discussed and pleaded for issues that had the entire south coast sportfishery on the line and NOTHING from DFO! This so highly regarded process as you describe it has many many flaws the way it functions now. The intention is good but it only works if the counterside is willing to play along and it is often the DFO side that builds the barricades. And I realize that it is not you personally but often enough political directive. But maybe you want to acknowledge that too if you want to sound reasonable here.

And while we are at it, if DFO needs better data - well then use your mandate and stipulate data collection and don't just ask for favours! Go and make every angler record every game fish kept on the annual licence and the collect all licences at the end of a season and you have all the data you can wish for. Put a process in place and we will comply - and without complaints if it's for the good of our fish and fishery. You are the decision maker, so do what is needed.
 
Well if we had unlimited resources we probably would get everyone to record everything and submit it and process it, but the reality is that the DFO doesn't have the resources to do that. We need the information in a more timely period than the next year also.
As for the barricades that you mention that DFO puts up, everyone has their perspective and you can call it what you want. If you don't get everything you ask for it does it mean that DFO isn't cooperating? There's a lot of competing interests in resources as you know. All I was wanting to say was if you want to do more than complain and ***** about problems, attend the meetings and become involved. Nuff said.
 
when halibut quotas were gifted as you say it was only to fishermen who had to have halibuted for many years and had made there living mostly from it; hed catch records for many thousands of lbs; not many guides could qualify so none applied to my knowledge; before quotas commercial halibut fishery was limited entry
 
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