Halibut-Closing on the 9th

Unfortunately Shep the problem lies with the government policy maker (Robert Thibault) who determined in 2002 that 12% was ample Halibut
to award to the sport sector.
As we know the other 88% was awarded to the commercial sector.
Undoing this policy is the challenge. :(
 
Gents,

My point was more along the lines of we are such a divided sector, that until we learn to put stripes aside and fight for the greater good of fair allocation, in which at the end of the day the overwhelming majority of us rec guys subscribe to, we are a small fish in a big pond and don't have a hope of hell battling a big business. At this point, the finger pointing of those who brought in an unfair act 9 or so years ago get us nowhere. WE need to focus on the issues at hand.
 
High Five said:
2 per day open all year round that is what it should be.....And guys that got it for free should pay/or get it taken away... This is what makes me laugh we sell out Canada halibut fishery to these guys, and no one in Canada gets any benefit? Not only does our recreational sport get robbed, but we pay for it in the grocery store. Talk to anyway any one seen the price per lb in the store??? people in Canada most often will go for the cheaper fish...All this meat is just exported away from us? Do we even process it here or China? Why is it a pipe dream for everybody to see what is going on? our elected government sells out our tar sands,forests, fisheries etc. Its just that head in the sand mentality well we don't really own the resources...well yes we do...Isn't interesting how all of us really don't get a say?

Not to mention only that one man controls a huge share of it and we all know who it is..... You just wait until they try to take all of it and then everybody will be pissed and wonder what happened. The writing is on the wall crabs,prawns,salmon and halibut...the government would rather sell it off than to give to us for free....

Its totally sad... and surprising how many keep accepting getting pushed around by these big businesses.....

RANT RANT

High Five
Click to expand...

welcome to a form of communism
 
Why not just keep it open until the end of September? Would just love to see the entire guess model they use to compile this percentage that we allegedly have met! It is just another great example of poor representation! It takes a long time from a tourism perspective to recover from the percieved "stocks in trouble" shadow that is created by these in Season closures! Had to reschedule 4 trips around it. And.....question #1 "when will it re-open?" answer; who the f**k knows!
 
Fishtofino said:
It's easy........ the overall quota for commercial and sport went down,. We got an extra 3% of that. We got one hell of a lot more than 5 extra days, salmonboy...............more like a month.
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ummm a month? no it closed last labour day monday, last year! ......we got 5 days extra this year cause it closes on the 9th sept......last year there was no slot....u must mean if we had no slot size it would close aug.?? 3% sure doesnt balance the tables at all!.........
 
Tailspin said:
Why not just keep it open until the end of September? Would just love to see the entire guess model they use to compile this percentage that we allegedly have met! It is just another great example of poor representation! It takes a long time from a tourism perspective to recover from the percieved "stocks in trouble" shadow that is created by these in Season closures! Had to reschedule 4 trips around it. And.....question #1 "when will it re-open?" answer; who the f**k knows!
Click to expand...
thats exactly right....where do they get the info that we've reached our quota? it doesnt make sense...does the dfo plane fly over and count 100 boats pinned up, so that mean 200 halibut? the creel survey cant be accurate enough to determine our quota..dfo s estimates on fish stocks and returns are always out to lunch...The sockeye forcast a couple years ago, was grimmish, and then 30 million+ show up...If i remember they had forcasted about 900,000-1.4 million...It just goes to show that dfo has no idea whats really going on!
 
I Fished for hali three times this year; was flown over twice. Both times were beautiful weather with few fish being caught. Caught ZERO hali, but infinite doggies. I would like to know how many hali the researchers guesstimated I caught? FLAWWWWEDDDD research; way too subjective. Perfect weather flyovers should account for an inordinate amount of sportfisherman. Their survey methods have some SERIOUS limitations...
 
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salmonboy said:
ummm a month? no it closed last labour day monday, last year! ......we got 5 days extra this year cause it closes on the 9th sept......last year there was no slot....u must mean if we had no slot size it would close aug.?? 3% sure doesnt balance the tables at all!.........
Click to expand...

Oh c'mon! Get real.
With the reductions in the quota from last year our season would have ended by the beginning of August if not for the extra 3% coupled with the slot size
 
at the end of the day ,

this season is done , lets not turn this into a pissing match , ITS DONE , should Have Would Have Could Have ,,,,,,,
were all entitled to our views and opinions... the numbers clearly show that we all dont agree on this slot size , and or when it shoulda closed..
if ya want ta argue that it woulda closed a month ago , give us some facts , not speculation ??? how many pounds were harvested up to a month ago ??? NO IDEA. weather , fishing pressure , success rates....etc.....someone actually counting lol...
I was told by a Board Member that this should be gone this next season , time will tell...was strictly for this year because of LOW availability..???

moving forward , i truly believe there will be ALOT more regular Joe fisherman involved in the process ,I dont think the Advisory Board will be able to put somthing on the table , and then just have it passed and rammed down our throats , I think there will be a larger amount of the True Sports Fsherman involved in all the meetings , knowing when and all the meetings are , posted on this site , will keep the field level ,,,,.. I will do my part to keep you all informed as i receive alot of email info on all this , as im sure many others too....


Gonna make sure my last outting for them is a WELL WORTH IT : )

go get em

fd
 
Hey folks: Consider this for a minute please:

This is intended to keep people thinking and remind us all of how and what brought us here in the first place.I will try hard to leave personal opinion out and I will present things as they have been presented to me. Please understand that what I am saying I believe to be factual but I will not give exact numbers or say anything as outright fact with no room for debate. I am confident that it will be presented in a respectful and accurate manor based on my knowledge and involvement to date.

If we go back to when the ITQ fishery was introduced to Halibut, it had a profound impact on the face of both sport and commercial halibut fishing. First to be noticed was the fact that many smaller "mom and pop" operations were forced off the water as they did not receive quota. No big deal the ITQ system will allow them to lease quota from the fortunate few that were given quota. Now they can continue to fish. Problem is they now are fishing for a fraction of the net profit they would have fished for before. This is no problem as it was just what the industry wanted; now the price can go sky high .Within a few short years Halibut was off the grocery list for many average Canadian households and even some smaller restaurants had removed it from the menu. Halibut, which swims freely in our back yard and is readily available and more over is advertised as the best run most healthy and sustainable fishery out there is now a luxury item

Second to be noticed was that quota was being sold left and right and it was very evident that quota was now a golden ticket. When something becomes this valuable, who usually ends up with the lions share? Yup the top of the money tree. There is now millions of dollars being made and those that are making most of it are putting little to nothing back into the local coastal communities that rely on that same resource. Sound familiar?

I realize that this is a very simplistic overview of the cause and effect of the ITQ and I know much can be said by those who benefited from it to defend it. The point is that everything about the ITQ was developed and implemented to benefit the big boys. It is a perfect system to narrow the playing field and funnel the dollars to the few and the rich. We see most of the fish leaving the country well ahead of meeting the needs of the very people whom the access to the resource actually belongs to. Not to mention touching as few hands as possible and creating as little local benefit as we have ever seen before. It put the rest in survival mode and thus over time feeling good about any small change although only a fraction of what is truly needed to make the difference. None of this was by happy coincidence from trying to make the fishery safer and easier to manage.

A couple years ago sport fisherman came together in an unprecedented manner. We crammed halls and convention rooms up and down the coast. We band together to support the notion that for the first time we would as a consolidated group not allow our right to access to be stripped away by big business and policy makers who have only their own political and financial agendas in sight. We were recruited by those we trust to represent our sport, and way of life. Most of us did not notice that much of what was being said was relative to the "sport fishing industry" not the sport fisherman. Wait, one is the same as the other. Every time a sport fisher spends a dollar to pursue his or her passion they become part of that industry, thus contributing to the Millions and Billions sport fishing spreads amongst the many communities up and down our coast and the the federal and provincial tax base. Very much a true statement and very much a reason to stick together as both vested and non vested parties.

We had a great argument that appealed to everyone involved in sport fishing. We were on a mission to show the rest of Canada and its policy makers that allocating such a small percent of the TAC to sport fishing and keeping the ITQ was bad for the fish,bad for local economies, and bad for all Canadians. We needed to stop the ITQ from taking over all the oceans marine resources that we sport fishers treasure so much. We needed to remind people that the fish are a public resource and ownership of fish before it is caught is wrong. We needed to remind people that if we value our right to access ,then we must not take part in such a flawed and narrow minded policy. We raised awareness and actually got people to listen and consider the ramifications. We even got a small change in allocation to come our way.

As the TAC falls, 15% today is not even the same as 12% of yesterday. If it is down again next year it will be less than that again. Knowing this, many of those that have businesses related to fishing were concerned with how short the season will be. This spawned the thought process of how can we extend the season and still work within the TAC provided. If we can manipulate the total weight harvested in a given time by catching less big fish and more smaller fish, we can keep the 1 and 2 limit and possession and should get more days on the water. This will provide a little more stability to book trips and also provide those who make their fishing trips in august the opportunity to fish for halibut. This was deemed the best of the bad and was made to be so. We did get through august and for those that can get out once more we will have the first week of Sept to get that last one. Did the slot do this? Or did something else? Not really relevant to the point of this post.

Now the closure is upon us and we are once again hearing talk of buying quota outright so we can add TAC to the sport sector and gain better stability and opportunity for everyone. Where would the money come from you ask? Well let us not forget the changes to the act and that the user fee agreement may provide an avenue. Most will recall lots of talk of developing a halibut stamp and annual catch limit. Could we be looking at that money? I am not really sure but both sound like places we may start. Wow could we actually be able to do this! Provided we can find a seller ect ect.

What the heck is that last paragraph about? Pretty sure we were adamant in saying no one should be able to buy or sell fish before they are caught. Pretty sure we were adamant that our access should and will not be stripped away by those with the most money. If we do this we will be taking part in a system that we all know is fundamentally wrong and detrimental to sport fishing on a whole. If we do this we will be paving the way for all other species.
If we buy quota instead of winning it over, we will be taking the short term approach. Most crucial in all of this is, if we do this we will be placing the tip of the pen at the start of the line that will ultimately divide the sport sector. How fast that line gets drawn will only be determined by how much stocks decline and how much pressure those whose livelihoods depend on sport fishing feel.

Once we enter and accept a system where our access is determined by how much quota we can buy, common sense and past history tells me this. When push comes to shove, those with the business interest in the stake and the most money ,will be the ones controlling access within our TAC"S. Those of us that do not have a vested interest will be left in the dust. We will find ourselves only able to take-part in our way of life and passion if we can afford to pay someone to take us. Or maybe, if we can afford it we can lease some quota to go catch a fish.

If you think we are immune to this happening to us, I would ask you to look at the smaller commercial businesses exampled earlier in this post. We are strong together and I do believe we are still united as a whole. Make no mistake the system in place is designed to do all of what I describe here. The question is, do we accept it because it is so damn hard and frankly almost impossible to change. Or do we say no to the short term solution and stay the course until we ultimately achieve the goal that will ensure long term access for generations to come. If all it is about is halibut quota and getting our share while the getting is good, then we are lost before we begin.

Sounds pretty ideological I know, but I think we all were when public pressure on this issue became a reality .Why should that change now? It is still right!
I am well aware of the fact that there is no election in sight and that there are many variables taking place that make quota buying look like the only option that will guaranty more quota. I also understand that today's businesses need results sooner than later. I just hope that all is considered before doing something so 180 degrees from what most of us believed was right only a short time ago. Maybe ask ourselves, was this even our idea in the first place? HMMMMMMMMMMMM??

Sorry folks: Seems once again I cannot keep my mouth shut and got long winded as hell. I am going to save this and re-read it tomorrow before I post it. If you are reading it then I am satisfied in the belief that it is necessary.Also please try to remember my statement that this is intended to keep people thinking not to judge or point fingers.

Ray
 
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Thanks Ray for reminding us of our goal.
Will send a copy of this to a few people if it's OK with you.



"Not one pound of Halibut should leave this country until all Canadians needs are met."
GLG
 
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dfo flyovers are worthless creel surveys at boat launching spots are whots needed;; hardly any at port hardy a major landing spot same at port mcneil; charter operater and guides should be on limited entry and have log books same as commies and have inspections at landing spots; guides should not be allowed to fish when out on a charter; unless some sort of limited entery is established more of the allowable quota wont help much; face the real facts your sport fishing is being commercialized; smarten up and face the real problems; its not just the commercial fishermen; itsmostly your own selves not asking for real solutions
 
well one thing for me i dont have to worry about the closing date for this halibut fishery because im aloud to fish for halibut till nov 15 i know it sucks for alot sportys
that its early this year and i have looked at the halibut that has come it in 60 percent is not recorded and there an over catch going on for the past few yrs and fisheries know this.
 
Fishtofino said:
Oh c'mon! Get real.
With the reductions in the quota from last year our season would have ended by the beginning of August if not for the extra 3% coupled with the slot size
Click to expand...
No....You get real! I ve kept 3 halibut(2 of the 3 were 20lbs) all year! Havent fished for them much tho..I'm sure i speak for most guys around victoria...we get a few for the freezer and thats it, How many have u caught this year?....You fish them everyday ,for your guests(that is your job, i realize that), Explain to me how the slot has benifited us...last year we kept 1 day/2 possession any size, this year its 1 day and a slot size for possession limit...we had the same amount of time the season was open this year and last year.For guys that only keep like 10 or under halibut a year(and thats a stretch for most guys), the slot size does not benifit us(non guides)...It benifits You, which is good too cause it brings money into our economy, all that said I think we all need to stick together and fight for our fair share.....cheers
 
More TAC and there are no more issues. We need to look at the big picture again and that is working together to get what we deserve. As long as we keep fighting for more and our TAC continues to go up we will slowly see this issues disappear and hopefully get back to a full fishing season. Blaming each other for who caught the fish is not what needs to happen, nobody did anything wrong and we all followed the rules. Back on the same bus guys and fight for whats is ours, worked last year, time to do it again.
 
salmonboy said:
No....You get real! I ve kept 3 halibut(2 of the 3 were 20lbs) all year! Havent fished for them much tho..I'm sure i speak for most guys around victoria...we get a few for the freezer and thats it, How many have u caught this year?....You fish them everyday ,for your guests(that is your job, i realize that), Explain to me how the slot has benifited us...last year we kept 1 day/2 possession any size, this year its 1 day and a slot size for possession limit...we had the same amount of time the season was open this year and last year.For guys that only keep like 10 or under halibut a year(and thats a stretch for most guys), the slot size does not benifit us(non guides)...It benifits You, which is good too cause it brings money into our economy, all that said I think we all need to stick together and fight for our fair share.....cheers
Click to expand...

You need to take your blinders off and look at the math. Everyone's benefit is that we could go and catch a halibut in August instead of being closed like down south. Did you know that they only get a 19 day season in Washington state? Is that what you want???

I agree that we should all stick together but you need to look at the big picture
 
I think some people are a little greedy when it comes to hali.... I kept 2 Chickens this year and I'm satisfied. If you didn't completely cork your deep freeze with hali then stop whining and go catch some more, there's still time.
 
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