Halibut-Closing on the 9th

[fogged in]

You need to take your blinders off and look at the math. Everyone's benefit is that we could go and catch a halibut in August instead of being closed like down south. Did you know that they only get a 19 day season in Washington state? Is that what you want???

The way I see it, the number of Sports fishermen targeting and the number of hours spent targeting halibut have increased ON AVERAGE 20% or more a year over the last 20 years.
Before that hardly any Sport Fishermen targeted halibut.
Is the quota system fair....I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Do I have ample opportunity to catch all the halilbut I could possibly eat during the season...SURE
The tackle shops promote it and others offer courses on how to catch halibut and how to use an anchor system. (A very dangerous practice if you don’t have experience...I have already heard of one boat flipping in a 2 knot tide, not knowing how to lift his anchor safely and there will be more)
That's way over a 500% increase WHEN YOU COMPOUND THE INCREASE EACH YEAR, in fishing pressure on Halibut over the last 20 years.
A similar situation exists with salmon fishing pressure.
If this growth continues, we will be down to fishing restrictions just like the Americans.
I fish halibut maybe a 12 times a year for 3 – 4 hours each trip off the Victoria Waterfront.
Do I get halibut every trip...no, but I do get more than enough halibut for me, my family and friends who I take out!
Some (like Guides off Swiftsure) fish halibut almost daily in July and August, taking 4 to 8 each trip.
It’s no wonder we reach our quote by early September.
Our problem is simple....TOO MANY FISHERMEN CHASING TOO FEW FISH. (I am sure you’ve heard that before)
If it were not for the American Hatchery system pushing out Springs, and Coho, our salmon fishery around Southern Vancouver Island would be a total loss.
With the American Hatcheries providing incentive to get out and catch these Springs and Coho, our wild fish suffer from the pressure.
Then add in the problems presented by the fish farm disease and it does not take a genius to figure out where we are headed.
My thought are often not in keeping with some on this site, so if I have offended anyone with this point of view...tough...it’s only one man’s opinion....nobody says it has to be 100% correct

 

[Aces]

The way I see it, the number of Sports fishermen targeting and the number of hours spent targeting halibut have increased ON AVERAGE 20% or more a year over the last 20 years.
Before that hardly any Sport Fishermen targeted halibut.
Is the quota system fair....I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Do I have ample opportunity to catch all the halilbut I could possibly eat during the season...SURE
The tackle shops promote it and others offer courses on how to catch halibut and how to use an anchor system. (A very dangerous practice if you don’t have experience...I have already heard of one boat flipping in a 2 knot tide, not knowing how to lift his anchor safely and there will be more)
That's way over a 500% increase WHEN YOU COMPOUND THE INCREASE EACH YEAR, in fishing pressure on Halibut over the last 20 years.
A similar situation exists with salmon fishing pressure.
If this growth continues, we will be down to fishing restrictions just like the Americans.
I fish halibut maybe a 12 times a year for 3 – 4 hours each trip off the Victoria Waterfront.
Do I get halibut every trip...no, but I do get more than enough halibut for me, my family and friends who I take out!
Some (like Guides off Swiftsure) fish halibut almost daily in July and August, taking 4 to 8 each trip.
It’s no wonder we reach our quote by early September.
Our problem is simple....TOO MANY FISHERMEN CHASING TOO FEW FISH. (I am sure you’ve heard that before)
If it were not for the American Hatchery system pushing out Springs, and Coho, our salmon fishery around Southern Vancouver Island would be a total loss.
With the American Hatcheries providing incentive to get out and catch these Springs and Coho, our wild fish suffer from the pressure.
Then add in the problems presented by the fish farm disease and it does not take a genius to figure out where we are headed.
My thought are often not in keeping with some on this site, so if I have offended anyone with this point of view...tough...it’s only one man’s opinion....nobody says it has to be 100% correct

8 halibut a trip? That's 8 clients in the boat. Didn't know the Princess fleet fished down there, lol.

 

[Jencourt]

The way I see it, the number of Sports fishermen targeting and the number of hours spent targeting halibut have increased ON AVERAGE 20% or more a year over the last 20 years.
Before that hardly any Sport Fishermen targeted halibut.
Is the quota system fair....I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Do I have ample opportunity to catch all the halilbut I could possibly eat during the season...SURE
The tackle shops promote it and others offer courses on how to catch halibut and how to use an anchor system. (A very dangerous practice if you don’t have experience...I have already heard of one boat flipping in a 2 knot tide, not knowing how to lift his anchor safely and there will be more)
That's way over a 500% increase WHEN YOU COMPOUND THE INCREASE EACH YEAR, in fishing pressure on Halibut over the last 20 years.
A similar situation exists with salmon fishing pressure.
If this growth continues, we will be down to fishing restrictions just like the Americans.
I fish halibut maybe a 12 times a year for 3 – 4 hours each trip off the Victoria Waterfront.
Do I get halibut every trip...no, but I do get more than enough halibut for me, my family and friends who I take out!
Some (like Guides off Swiftsure) fish halibut almost daily in July and August, taking 4 to 8 each trip.
It’s no wonder we reach our quote by early September.
Our problem is simple....TOO MANY FISHERMEN CHASING TOO FEW FISH. (I am sure you’ve heard that before)
If it were not for the American Hatchery system pushing out Springs, and Coho, our salmon fishery around Southern Vancouver Island would be a total loss.
With the American Hatcheries providing incentive to get out and catch these Springs and Coho, our wild fish suffer from the pressure.
Then add in the problems presented by the fish farm disease and it does not take a genius to figure out where we are headed.
My thought are often not in keeping with some on this site, so if I have offended anyone with this point of view...tough...it’s only one man’s opinion....nobody says it has to be 100% correct

In regards to the " TOO MANY FISHERMEN CHASING TOO FEW FISH.". I would remind those reading this that somewhere between 80 and 90% of the 85% portion of what the IPHC says is a sustainable TAC is exported to other countries. Level that number out properly and see what happens.

Again this can not only be about halibut quota. This is about a shrinking access being lost by greedy, unfair and wrong policy making Yes there are many issues in regards to fish stocks. Very serious issues in many cases that need attention. However that is a completely separate issue and has no relevance to getting the allocation of what ever is available for sustainable harvest levels on a more level playing field.

 

[fogged in]

8 halibut a trip? That's 8 clients in the boat. Didn't know the Princess fleet fished down there, lol.

no that's 6 clients in a boat and 2 crew....the guides always take their hali and do whatever with it.
So...maybe it's 4 to 6 hali a trip from the guides...are we not splitting hairs?

 

[trophywife]

no that's 6 clients in a boat and 2 crew....the guides always take their hali and do whatever with it.
So...maybe it's 4 to 6 hali a trip from the guides...are we not splitting hairs?

who runs boat this way? usually four clients max and one guide,,and most guides i know don't take one for themselves....

 

[fogged in]

who runs boat this way? usually four clients max and one guide,,and most guides i know don't take one for themselves....

Again we are splitting hairs...4,6,8,9! you get the point.
see today's catch pic...

 

[Hali killer]

The way I see it, the number of Sports fishermen targeting and the number of hours spent targeting halibut have increased ON AVERAGE 20% or more a year over the last 20 years.
Before that hardly any Sport Fishermen targeted halibut.
Is the quota system fair....I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Do I have ample opportunity to catch all the halilbut I could possibly eat during the season...SURE
The tackle shops promote it and others offer courses on how to catch halibut and how to use an anchor system. (A very dangerous practice if you don’t have experience...I have already heard of one boat flipping in a 2 knot tide, not knowing how to lift his anchor safely and there will be more)
That's way over a 500% increase WHEN YOU COMPOUND THE INCREASE EACH YEAR, in fishing pressure on Halibut over the last 20 years.
A similar situation exists with salmon fishing pressure.
If this growth continues, we will be down to fishing restrictions just like the Americans.
I fish halibut maybe a 12 times a year for 3 – 4 hours each trip off the Victoria Waterfront.
Do I get halibut every trip...no, but I do get more than enough halibut for me, my family and friends who I take out!
Some (like Guides off Swiftsure) fish halibut almost daily in July and August, taking 4 to 8 each trip.
It’s no wonder we reach our quote by early September.
Our problem is simple....TOO MANY FISHERMEN CHASING TOO FEW FISH. (I am sure you’ve heard that before)
If it were not for the American Hatchery system pushing out Springs, and Coho, our salmon fishery around Southern Vancouver Island would be a total loss.
With the American Hatcheries providing incentive to get out and catch these Springs and Coho, our wild fish suffer from the pressure.
Then add in the problems presented by the fish farm disease and it does not take a genius to figure out where we are headed.
My thought are often not in keeping with some on this site, so if I have offended anyone with this point of view...tough...it’s only one man’s opinion....nobody says it has to be 100% correct

Well said!!!

 

[seadna]

You need to take your blinders off and look at the math. Everyone's benefit is that we could go and catch a halibut in August instead of being closed like down south. Did you know that they only get a 19 day season in Washington state? Is that what you want???

I agree that we should all stick together but you need to look at the big picture

19 days? Us Washington state recreational fishermen would see a 19 day fishery as a huge upgrade relative to what we got the last few years! This year we could fish for hali on the Thursdays and Saturdays between May 10 and May 19 (4 days), plus June 14th for a total of 5 days. Not only is the season limited, the weather/water usually sucks in May and it can be downright dangerous for a recreational guy to get out there on those days.

I fished hali on the Canadian side twice this year - both times at Swiftsure. Once in July and my buddy and I both picked up a 30lb fish. The other time was Saturday (9/1). I had a hard time keeping the jig on the bottom except near the tide change. I nailed on nice fish around 70lbs, got it to the boat for a good look and then it took a run and ripped the hooks right out of the bottom of the jig. So my Canadian hali count this year was one 30lb fish.

 

[searun]

Following this thread with interest. One thing we all have in common is everyone realizes how important it is for the rec fishery to obtain more TAC. We can complain about the system endlessly which will accomplish zero. Now is a time for us to start looking at ways to leverage our common options to gain more TAC. Without more TAC our future looks fairly certain - more endless, fruitless debates over crap we can't control or change easily.

Time for us to move on to more productive discussion - getting more TAC and having the ability to control our access. We will have a lot fewer problems if we control enough TAC to cover our recreational sport fishing needs for now and into the future. The problem we have today is the TAC changes with abundance and mix of catchable size halibut which introduces into this system a high degree of unpredictable variations in what we can use to run our fishery. Clearly the rec fishery needs stability so people can plan year to year. Other thing we also need to bear in mind which complicates our situation is it is highly likely the needs of the rec fishery will continue to expand over time, so we need to plan for that.

Reviewing our common actions to date, it is clear there was some benefit to pressing our business case demonstrating the socio-economic benefits of increasing our TAC. That gained us a further 3%. Time and effort well invested. I strongly suspect further investment into this strategy will be met with much diminished returns. Not completely fruitless, but we need to be realistic in our assessment of what this strategy will do for us - particularly thinking about the long political cycle between now and the next election where we are most likely to gain our best possible result with this strategy. We need answers in the more immediate term.

I believe our best chance to gain certainty and control our future is to put a halibut stamp into place and use the funds gained from the stamp to purchase quota (not lease it). Once we own quota we have greater control over our future and can plan for changes to the needs of the recreational fishery should we continue to expand. More to be gained from working within the ITQ system, and in fact to find ways to make it work for us as opposed to against us. While I too do not like buying something that should never have been given away to the commies for free, I also have reached the point of looking at more realistic ways to solve our common issue. Ownership brings control over our future in an allocation system.

Last point, it is time for DFO to be much, much more transparent in sharing the catch data and being more open with potential options to the general angling public. There is no doubt the SFAC and SFAB process is extremely valuable, and folks need to participate and stay informed. That said, way too much info on how many fish are caught where and when is locked up tight in the DFO vault, time for that to change.

Probably too logical for some who would prefer instead to just rant, but that is how I see the issue and our our best hope of a workable solution.

 

[lorneparker1]

For once we partially agree on something. Which is the halibut stamp and the funds to purchase more quota. We can yell and stomp our feet that we ahouldnt have to buy what is already ours, however the fact remains someone does now own it. The hard part is getting someone to sell us quota I think. I think considering the way the commies reacted this spring to us getting and extra 3%, any commie caught selling his quota to the rec group will be hung from a tree by his peers. I belive that fundraising and court is still a very.viable option. Bcwf has.lots of.money.

 

[Derby]

For once we partially agree on something. Which is the halibut stamp and the funds to purchase more quota. We can yell and stomp our feet that we ahouldnt have to buy what is already ours, however the fact remains someone does now own it. The hard part is getting someone to sell us quota I think. I think considering the way the commies reacted this spring to us getting and extra 3%, any commie caught selling his quota to the rec group will be hung from a tree by his peers. I belive that fundraising and court is still a very.viable option. Bcwf has.lots of.money.

It is easier than you think...

 

[GDW]

Wouldn't it be classic if the halibut stamp was introduced, funds raised and additional quota bought. Then a few years down the road the TAC increases and the sport fishermen do not use all their quota. Then we lease our remaining quota back to the commies and use that money to buy even more.

Imagine if the rec fishermen owned and leased all the quota instead of the commies. Profits could be put into salmon enhancement, angler education, initiatives to get kids out fishing etc... and the real fishermen who are out there fishing today would still be out there they would just get the quota from us instead of big business.

That just might work. If the government really wants to download the administration of their fisheries onto somebody else they should consider giving it to the recreational fleet instead of the commercials. Recreational would hopefully run it as not for profit while we all know commercially it is all for profit.

 

[gamechanger]

I agree with you guys too, but just keep in mind the dollars and sense of pursuing this option...

Of the 300k license holders about 100k pursue halibut. If you think that people would be happy with a 10-20 dollar stamp lets say that if everyone would buy one thats 1M-2M a year could be generated from the halibut stamp.

Last time I heard hali quota for purchase was floating around the $60/lb mark.

That 3% reallocation was about 3% of 7M lbs (what Canada gets as a TAC from the IPHC), so that math works out to about 210K lbs for 2012. At 60 bucks a pound that works out to about 12.6M if the rec fishery had to buy that amount. So a value of about $12M for 210k lbs (210k lbs in 2012-subject to change based on what our CDN TAC is). The hali catch rates in July and August are about 450k lbs for each month, so that 12M bucks is about as much quota as the fishery needs to operate for about 2 weeks give or take. So keep that in mind.

If you want to sell a halibut stamp for 10-20 bucks a pop and generate 1-2M a year from it and you want to buy some quota, lets say 200k lbs - you are looking at a 6-12 year cost recovery to fish (at the current effort we already have), for basically what the fishery will go through in 2 weeks.

In 2012 the rec fishery had a TAC of about 1.08M lbs. As you all know this was 1/2 with a size limit to hopefully keep the fishery within its TAC. The harvest will be likely over the TAC even with this managment measure.

For your perspective (in rough numbers) at 1/2 the fishery would need about 1.2M lbs to go all year.
At 2/2 you could bump that up to about 1.7M lbs and at 2/3 you would need about 2M lbs to fish all year with those kinds of limits at the effort that we have in the fishery currently. And that could change, effort could increase/drop, but prob interest will continue to grow in halibut...

We need a larger solution beyond the reaches of the stamp.

 

[scott craven]

I think you make some valid points Gamechanger.
However adding a Halibut stamp with a 10-12 fish limit would help stop over fishing
as well as contribute another 3-6M to the bottom line (and not to general revenue)
even if this is not enough to extend the season dramatically, it go to a contingency
fund managed by the SFAB (or similar) and be used in a way that could benefit
the sport fishing industry, be it for additional quota or ??

 

[lorneparker1]

I agree with you guys too, but just keep in mind the dollars and sense of pursuing this option...

Of the 300k license holders about 100k pursue halibut. If you think that people would be happy with a 10-20 dollar stamp lets say that if everyone would buy one thats 1M-2M a year could be generated from the halibut stamp.

Last time I heard hali quota for purchase was floating around the $60/lb mark.

That 3% reallocation was about 3% of 7M lbs (what Canada gets as a TAC from the IPHC), so that math works out to about 210K lbs for 2012. At 60 bucks a pound that works out to about 12.6M if the rec fishery had to buy that amount. So a value of about $12M for 210k lbs (210k lbs in 2012-subject to change based on what our CDN TAC is). The hali catch rates in July and August are about 450k lbs for each month, so that 12M bucks is about as much quota as the fishery needs to operate for about 2 weeks give or take. So keep that in mind.

If you want to sell a halibut stamp for 10-20 bucks a pop and generate 1-2M a year from it and you want to buy some quota, lets say 200k lbs - you are looking at a 6-12 year cost recovery to fish (at the current effort we already have), for basically what the fishery will go through in 2 weeks.

In 2012 the rec fishery had a TAC of about 1.08M lbs. As you all know this was 1/2 with a size limit to hopefully keep the fishery within its TAC. The harvest will be likely over the TAC even with this managment measure.

For your perspective (in rough numbers) at 1/2 the fishery would need about 1.2M lbs to go all year.
At 2/2 you could bump that up to about 1.7M lbs and at 2/3 you would need about 2M lbs to fish all year with those kinds of limits at the effort that we have in the fishery currently. And that could change, effort could increase/drop, but prob interest will continue to grow in halibut...

We need a larger solution beyond the reaches of the stamp.

Make the stamp $100. It adds up fast when you do that. And if you could gaurentee me this money is going to 100% buy more quota I don't think this is a tough sell to most, it sure wouldnt be for me. And once we have enoigh quota we can reduce the stamp cost. The fear is that our money gets put in some account somewhere and the dfo spends it as fit.

 

[Rob H]

Testing image posting, will use a couple recent halibut pictures hopefully. THanks to those who did a recent explanation of the process, it was easier than I thought it would be.

...Rob

 

[Pursuit 648]

just a thought here
lets say we have a halibut stamp to buy more quota with the idea that we will have a longer season - I'm still skeptical
as with the 83 rule we still got shut down too early - I think
what happens if who ever is selling the quota decides they don't want to sell it? or decide they want to increase the cost of the quota?
does this mean the stamp cost more year to year?
does this now mean you have given in to the idea that the commercial guys own the halibut anything after 15% of the TAC?

 

[gamechanger]

Commercial quota holders will sell quota, it happens all the time. I think that if it got to that point where the rec fishery was organized and in the position to buy quota than it would likely happen. Maybe there would be some reluctance there and some games at the beginning, but I think if the money was there it would happen.

As for where the money goes, etc...this has happened in the past and was organized throught the SFAB and funds were held by them and used to lease quota...no issues that I know of. Any of that type of arrangement would be through a 3rd party and the DFO likely wouldn't be involved in the monetary aspects of it. I doubt anyone would want to set it up as a general revenue kind of thing.

$100 stamp...some people would be game for that, but how the general public would support that, who knows. Might be steep. Lorne, even if it was $100 bucks and everyone did it we wouldnt see a real change until it happened a few years in a row, so we need to wrap our heads around the logistics of that.

The business plan to do this has been developed and the hang-up in the process is with Treasury Board in Ottawa, a very long story. But that's the way it has to go so....we'll see where it ends up.

 

[Jencourt]

Commercial quota holders will sell quota, it happens all the time. I think that if it got to that point where the rec fishery was organized and in the position to buy quota than it would likely happen. Maybe there would be some reluctance there and some games at the beginning, but I think if the money was there it would happen.

As for where the money goes, etc...this has happened in the past and was organized throught the SFAB and funds were held by them and used to lease quota...no issues that I know of. Any of that type of arrangement would be through a 3rd party and the DFO likely wouldn't be involved in the monetary aspects of it. I doubt anyone would want to set it up as a general revenue kind of thing.

$100 stamp...some people would be game for that, but how the general public would support that, who knows. Might be steep. Lorne, even if it was $100 bucks and everyone did it we wouldnt see a real change until it happened a few years in a row, so we need to wrap our heads around the logistics of that.

The business plan to do this has been developed and the hang-up in the process is with Treasury Board in Ottawa, a very long story. But that's the way it has to go so....we'll see where it ends up.

One question that comes to my mind is was the idea of buying quota presented to and voted upon at the local sfac level? Or do things like this bypass that level of input?

 

[spring fever]

I think we should have to record all hali up to a max number per year( to be determined} the same as we do for Springs. That would calm down the guys who fish hali exclusively and who take a disproportionate number. I would be happy with ten-I don't take that many but it seems reasonable.