Scotty Plugs On Metal Boat Warning

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I was just installing new Scotty flush mount electrical plugs (old style) on the new welded aluminum boat and realized that the ground lug on the plug has a side piece that electrically grounds the screw/bolt used to mount it. I missed this when I set up the last boat. I had to go back and grind off the side piece on all the plugs to keep the bolt isolated as you don't want a path to ground to your hull or you are going to be running your zincs down fast. If you are running a metal boat you may want to check your plugs....
 
So it's not grounded to anything on an aluminum boat,or is it grounded to the neg batt?
 
It's wired back to your battery terminal or your negative block (which is in turn connected to your negative terminal).

Another thing to watch for is that it seems like a lot of installers putting in after market dowriggers seem to like to connect the postives leads directly to the battery terminal bypassing the battery isolation switch - no idea why but I've seen a lot of boats fused but then wired that way - not good as when you turn off your battery switch your Scotty mounts are still live, much better to take the positives from your Scotty's thru a fuse then to the non-battery side of your isolation switch. Easy if yur swtich is at the back of the boat but likely to cost you another switch on a bigger boat with a front mounted switch to keep your cable runs short.
 
SIR;I've recently bought a welded alum boat,has 1 battery,no battery switch to turn everything off.It's a '94 I think.Scotty plugs are always live.Sounds like I'm risking electrolosis.I'm going to do some research,maybe make some changes.
Thank-You
 
If you are worried about electrolosis just take a zinc, attach it to your neg battery post and throw it over the side (ony when you are docked). [:p]

Got this bit of information from Mercury!
 
you can buy zinc fish on a cable for this in a hot moorage also..beware you can overzinc a boat tho
SIR you are right, the Hella connectors do have a negative spur that bites into the hull, cutting it off is the best way, you can also attempt to isolate it by mounting the conn on a peice of starboard or uhmw plastic

also, while we are all tuning up for Springs, now is a good time to take your multi meter out w you on that first trip and check those downrigger wire voltages - this will reveal SOME bonding problems, but not all. Turn the black box off while testing. This test does NOT work if you are using the new braided DR lines.

tight lines

JD
 
Good call to be careful not to have any current running live through your alum hull. It will cause permanent and irreparable damage. Aluminum is almost as bad as zinc for electrolysis. I was talking to one of the Transport Canada Inspectors and he recently noticed a boat with a battery incorrectly grounded through the hull, and he condemned the boat after running some metallurgical tests which showed most of the hull was compromised.
 
I have never checked mine but you guys are saying all electrical wiring, negative included, should not be in touch with the aluminum hull? Like a motor vehicle where neg. runs throughout the metal body?

Anyone knows what premature signs of electrolisys are?

cheers

gonefishingsign.gif
 
pitting, which can be near microscpic to BIG...

quote:Originally posted by Gypseas

I have never checked mine but you guys are saying all electrical wiring, negative included, should not be in touch with the aluminum hull? Like a motor vehicle where neg. runs throughout the metal body?

Anyone knows what premature signs of electrolisys are?

cheers

gonefishingsign.gif
 
You got it, all electrical appliances should NOT contact the hull in a metal boat (aluminum or steel). Unlike on a vehicle where you have a chassy ground in a metal boat you have a floating ground islolated from the boat.

You want to put plastic/teflon mounting plates between things like windshield wipers and the boat and you want to make sure that the bolts/screws you use to mount the appliance aren't grounding the appliance to the boat. There are lot's of books/webs on this topic.

I just never really took note of the little tab inside of the Scotty mounts before that ground the bolt....

I'm still thinking about the zinc in the water to the battery negative idea..... I agree it would protect the boat but it seems to me that that will form a circuit which will drain your battery.... which if you are relying on it for a bilge pump would be a bad thing...

Not sure how they test for metal fatigue other than pitting, thickness remaining, and the good ole hammer test :-)
 
Can anyone out there point me to some web sites that would detail wiring of an aluminum boat to avoid electrolosis?
Thanks much!
 
In the manual that is supplied with the Scotty Black Box it refers to grounding the negative post from the starting battery directly to the hull, This information from MR. Bonding Malcolm Russell the inventor of black box technology and electrolysis expert.
I am confident in the information SIR has to offer, but because my boat seems to grounded like a car body/frame I am very worrried . Also are the motors not grounded to the hull via the mounting bolts? ANY thoughts. Thanks Steve
 
I just checked my Mercury manual/ wiring schematics and they show the outboard grounded to its own body and as Steve mentioned grounded to the hull through the mounting bolts.
I suppose one could install a dedicated switch for the negative side, and turn it off when moored. Just keep an eye on them zincx
cheers

gonefishingsign.gif
 
Okay, first the disclaimer, I'm NOT an electrical engineer but I've got a reasonable number of years on doing wiring on aluminum and steel boats. So here is my understanding in layman's terms.

Most marine engines do not use an insulated ground return circuit(where the alternator is electrically isolated from the motor and then connected to the battery via a cabled return), but they also don't use a ground return circuit as per in a car (where the alternator is wired to the engine block and the chassy/hull acts as the return path to the battery). Marine engines usually use a hybrid where the alternator is not electrically isolated from the rest of the motor BUT IS wired directly to the battery with a heavy gauge cable providing a path of least resistance from the alternator to the battery. In this system you are not going to get much/any flow from the alternator/engine to the battery as the cable between the alternator and the battery provides much less resistance than any alternative path and electrons always follow the path of least resistance. Your motor still has a ground strap to the boat to ensure that that there is never an electrical voltage variance between the motor and the hull, which could result in a lethal shock, but this ground connection is not being used by the alternator as an electrical path to the battery due to the heavy gauge cable connecting the alternator directly to the battery.

I know zero about black boxes but I'm going to assume that the ground to the hull from the black box is playing a similar role in ensuring that your downrigger wire and the boat are electrically neutral to each other, ensuring you are not going to get zapped. If I ever installed a black box on a metal boat I'd be doing a lot more reading about them and I'd ensure I had a way to isolate the circuit from the boat when I wasn't actually using the black box.

Moving on to electrical appliances like downriggers, radios etc. On a boat you want to provide a cabled path of least resistance between the negative, appliance and positive as opposed to having your hull as part or all of the circuit. If you use your hull as the circuit then any less noble metals attached to the hull are going to act as a sacrificial anode and you are going to have corrosion happening. The best case scenario is that you only start going thru your zincs quickly. The worst case scenario is you start loosing thru hulls or the hull of your boat itself. Unlike with your motor where we are using heavy gauge wire for short runs from the alternator to the battery, most of our electrical appliances have longer run light gauge wire connections. This means if we accidentally provide a connection from the battery to the hull, and from the appliance to the hull, the hull has the potential to be the path of electrical least resistance and become part of the circuit leading to the flow of electrons to the least noble metal along the way which means corrosion.

All of the above info relates only to DC circuits and has nothing to due with the issues of electrolysis caused by incorrect grounding/ neutral handling when connecting to shore power. Separate topic all together.

I hope this simplified (?) explanation helps, but would not be surprised if I only ended up confusing lot's of folks, but hey you didn't have to pay me $80/hr to confuse you like you normally would at your marine shop :D

When we did a bare bones rebuild of a 40' metal tug boat one book we found invaluable was "The Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" by Nigel Calder I'd recommend it as a good overall reference manual if you are going to get into the guts of your boats systems.

Chow,
Ian
 
I forgot to offer a comment on the above link provided by tomictime. That link is more of a review of whether to bond or not-bond a boat, not a link on preventing electrolysis on a non-bonded boat.

My two cents is DO NOT attempt to bond your boat without some serious help from an eletrical engineer and to then have your bonding system checked on a REGULAR basis. There are lot's of horror stories on how quickly things can go wrong on a bonded boat if everything is not working well. I think for most of the folks hanging around this forum with smaller boats, going with an "isolation" strategy is much simpler and easier to maintain. With this system if something does go wrong 99% of the time your zincs will take care of it. If you CHECK your zincs REGULARY and CLEAN them with a wire brush, to remove any oxidation if you store your boat out of water for longer periods of time between use, then you are likely never going to have to worry about any of this electrical stuff as long as you maintain your zincs as they will deal with all of this by acting as a sacrificial instead of anything else on your boat.
 
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