New Salish 33' Liquid Metal Custom Build

[Stizzla]

My response may shock you!

I’d be interested in the cost difference between 2 @ 450’s vs 3 @ 350’s.
You will have less hour per motor depreciation, but now you will have 3 motors depreciating none the less.
are the 350’s duo prop as well? If not, I actually vote twin 450 duoprops.

 

[mikep]

Just do triple 300 zuks. You won't need the high test fuel or have to deal with those duoprops. The 300 is a battle proven engine. My buddies 36' jaxoncraft is a beast with triple 300 yamahas. It will be a nice rig whatever you do.

 

[carpeweekend]

I considered the Yamaha's but they are about 1000 pounds each = 2000 pounds versus 750 pounds per motor x 3 for the Suzuki's = 2250 pounds. An extra 250 pounds for 200 more horsepower. I was going to go with the 300 Suzuki's but the block and weight are identical to the 350's so no real advantage there. The other advantage over the Yamaha's is spreading the trolling hours over 3 engines versus 2 engines.

 

[Aces]

I considered the Yamaha's but they are about 1000 pounds each = 2000 pounds versus 750 pounds per motor x 3 for the Suzuki's = 2250 pounds. An extra 250 pounds for 200 more horsepower. I was going to go with the 300 Suzuki's but the block and weight are identical to the 350's so no real advantage there. The other advantage over the Yamaha's is spreading the trolling hours over 3 engines versus 2 engines.

There's just something bad butt about more than 2 main outboard motors hanging of the back

 

[Sharphooks]

you can troll on any outboard you want and you probably wouldn’t use Optimus under those circumstances anyway…… just be very aware of power management .....I’m presuming you have the Dometic electro servo motors ....
if you troll on one outboard all three of the servo motors will be steering all three outboards, including the two outboards that aren’t feeding juice back to your starter batteries....F-B-W, Nav functions on your MFD’s are all very voltage sensitive so good to keep your eye on battery health when doing that for extended periods of time

Meanwhile, if it were me I’d lean toward Mikep’s recommendation on powering with old-school triple Zuke 300’s...the power to weight ratio is better with the DF350’s , yes, but man oh man, 6 props to worry about instead of 3? I saw so much wood in the water this summer I’d be tiptoeing around with all that exposed stainless, especially up in the more remote areas where a small mistake could lead to big headaches pretty quick.

But it’s not me, it’s you, and I hope those trip DF350’s treat you well.

 

[mikep]

Disadvantage of 350s is 91 octane fuel required and the counter rotating lower unit.....you won't miss the 150hp.

 

[seabeyond]

Just do triple 300 zuks. You won't need the high test fuel or have to deal with those duoprops. The 300 is a battle proven engine. My buddies 36' jaxoncraft is a beast with triple 300 yamahas. It will be a nice rig whatever you do.

I third this motion. Those 300s are known reliable engines and you don't need 3 x 350s. Approve of the extra engine choice. Nice to have the bottom end the extra displacement offers.

We've been Considering going up in aluminum and would go 3x 250/ 300 seapro or 300 zuk over the 350 twin setup for our application.

 

[BCI]

I am now leaning toward triple 350's but need to make a decision fairly quickly. I haven't even walked on a boat with triple or quad engines. A big advantage (beyond the power increase) would seem to be the ability to spread the trolling hours out over 3 engines versus 2 engines. I understand that my Optimus system will only work with all engines running but it would be nice to keep the hours down by spreading it out over the 3.

Can anyone confirm that I will be able to run any one of the 3 engines by itself while trolling (albeit without Optimus working)? If so, I am going to add the 3rd engine. Pretty sure that @Stizzla would agree with the more power decision.

And yeah, an extra burnewiin mount seems to make sense.

I had an Optimus 360 on my Grady 306. You can run only one engine and both engines will turn.

On the Mercury Joystick option I had (2016 model Whaler 315 Conquest) both engines had to be running for both to turn. Sucked.

The Optimus was the better solution.

Sold both those boats and went back to conventional steering. I can control the boat much better myself with conventional steering and a thruster. There is way to much bump and grind going on for anything like skyhook or dock maneuvering in high wind / high current. Also didn't like the slight delay between input of controls / steering wheel and reaction at the engines. You'll use the skyhook once before you give mercy to your engines and transmissions and never use it again. The exemption of this is the Volvo IPS and new Volvo DPH where the drives have build in trolling valves which slip the transmission while still in gear. Those are nice joystick options with no bump / grind / chaos / expensive sounds.

I'd advise against the Joystick system if you know how to operate a boat already.

Instead, Go triples, conventional steering, thruster, quality autopilot. Put an autopilot control head on the dash and on the aft steering station. Use the centre engine for trolling exclusively to keep the hours off the other two, and to keep the steering left / right equal and consistent with equal directional thrust in each direction.

 

[Aces]

Instead, Go triples, conventional steering, thruster, quality autopilot. Put an autopilot control head on the dash and on the aft steering station. Use the centre engine for trolling exclusively to keep the hours off the other two, and to keep the steering left / right equal and consistent with equal directional thrust in each direction.

Brilliant!

 

[Sharphooks]

No argument with BCIs comments about the downside of joysticking....the first thing you notice is all the shifting going on which can:t be a long term good thing for your LU:s

That being said..... I currently own a boat with joysticks, <which I am selling> and just bought another boat with joysticks <that I really look forward to using>.....but my approach to joysticking is this—the skyhook and SeaStation thing ——holding the boat in place to fish, or spinning on a dime, or using it while waiting to get your spot at the fuel dock—-a bit too aggressive in the shifting in and out of gear department—-I do not use it under those circumstances

I use the system with discretion—-specifically for parallel parking in tight situations. First thing—-tilt the outboards up 20 - 30 degrees, then use the joystick briefly to make your move, then done.

I freely admit I am new to twins and have never been near tripp’s or counter-rotating props or a true in-hull thruster so I can:t comment on those set ups.....I:ll also admit those joysticks are training wheels for me ...crab-walking is a skill I need to learn——but when used with discretion, those joysticks are a really nice piece of equipment to have in your bag of boating tools especially if you:re running a boat that suffers from *windage* and lspend a lot of your time running the boat alone

Meanwhile, if there:s anyone doubting BCI:s comments about all that aggressive shifting going on, here:s a promo video of joysticking in action—-the Kodiak in this video is the same boat I am currently selling——

 

[carpeweekend]

Thanks again to everyone for their comments. I am researching the 300 versus 350 scenario and will talk to the dealer. Not too worried about the higher octane needed for the 350 as marine fuel accomplishes that. A lot of the research actually shows that the 350 gets better fuel efficiency than the single prop 300 due to the counter rotating props increased efficiency. However, the 300 is now available with duo prop. Weight is a consideration and the 350 is about 90 pounds heavier, so 270 extra pounds. About $2300 more per engine for the 350's. Lower compression ratio and max rpm on the 300.

Either way, it will give me more than enough power. Will discuss with builder and engine dealer and let you know.

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

Thanks for posting about your up coming build, I've read through the entire 7 pages and have enjoyed every post, learned a lot as well.

Interesting to see you have opted for a SeaKeeper 2 stabilizer, I saw those online a few weeks ago and have checked them out, if my new boat was larger I would consider having one installed, not inexpensive though. It's interesting how many boat manufacturers now have a SeaKeeper System as an option or come standard on certain models. https://www.seakeeper.com/standard/

I look forward to the progress reports as they become available.

Cheers,

David

 

[wdlfbio]

Barry and Jim (Tomictime) cover a lot of things very well. Barry’s Coldwater is well dialed.

I’ll chime in with my experiences on a couple builds. The DF 300a is pretty much bullet proof. The DF350 still has lower unit issues with water intrusion. I’ve seen it in multiple DF350s. The 350s NEED at least 89 octane. We add Boostane to get our marina gas from 87nonE to 90-91 octane. That seems to minimize the chance of blowing them up.

SlapShot is 34x12 with DF350s and the full seastation setup. They had a pump crap out, which requires the user to lock the steering forward and get back home with just differential throttle thrust to turn. We tried to use the spot lock a few times and flat gave up. The things we don’t like are our lack of control of when to kick the motors in and out of gear. They can go from idling peacefully to cranked up in forward or reverse with no warning. Super easy for anglers to not pay attn and get lines sucked into the props. Also, the thruhulls are about 8’ forward of the motors and the reverse blows out the ducers for a while. Annoying. Every lower unit fluid change results in showing a bunch of water in the lowers. They’ve had every update to the seals and we still get water inside. A buddy has ‘20 and ‘21 350s and gets water in his lowers too.

But, the grip and torque of the duoprop is amazing. SlapShot is about 22k pounds (cat) and cruises about 25 mph at 4,600-4,800 rpm, 0.8ish mpg. Crank up the rpm to WOT and she drops to 0.65-0.69 mpg hitting MAYBE 40 mph.

The last two cats I ran (28’ and 30’) had Zuke 300s. Love em. My current build, another Allied Wildcat (30x10’) will get the DF350s, in spite of knowing the lowers will get wet inside and needing higher octane. I can’t see carrying the weight of the DF300Bs, which is the same as the 350As, and getting less HP. I know Slamonater has a 30’ or so North River with the 300Bs and he loves em.

Side and transom doors should open inward. That’s just safer. If you’re planning on lots of overnights, add the inverter now, make sure it’s proper for a microwave later .

The rosettes welded into the deck as Tomic has are great for securing totes and coolers for tuna trips. I’ve yet to see a really good insulated aluminum fish box. Just add a 1/2 tote on deck for those trips.

Install enough scotty plugs for all your electric reels. Maybe even 1 on the bow??. Mine is a walk around, so we have 2 aft, 2 midship, and 2 at the bow. Add more cup holders. Add a proper intermittent windshield wiper switch for each wiper. The one I attached a pic of offers a delay up to 14 seconds or so. Makes life soooo much easier when I don’t have to look down to activate a wiper. My port wiper switch is easily reached by my 1st mate too.

Lastly, wait for the FLIR 625. I’ve used several FLIRs and resolution makes a big difference. I couldn’t care less about being able to pan or tilt my FLIR. I want to see where the boat is headed, not left or right. If you care more about pointing the FLIR different directions, then buy the 232.

Thanks for sharing your build and getting all these differing thoughts written out. I’m always looking for better ideas too

 

[BarryA]

@carpeweekend any updates on the build process?

 

[carpeweekend]

Thanks for the nudge. I am a bit distracted (and out of the country for the past 3 months) dealing with a family health issue but have been meaning to post something. The build was delayed in starting but the hull is almost complete and have been talking to my builder weekly. Here are some recent pics of the progress:

 

[carpeweekend]

Here are some pics of the Seakeeper 2 that will be installed. I am not afflicted with seasickness in any scenario but it should make for a more comfortable ride and help my wife and a few of my buddies when the seas are angry.

 

[carpeweekend]

After lots of input on the forum, I decided to go with Stizzla approved triple 300 Suzukis for power. Like any boat, boat engines are also about compromise. I wanted plenty of power, only one set of controls, and love the trolling feature on the big Suzuki outboards. Having 3 engines rather than 2 will decrease the hour buildup. I decided on the 300's rather than 350's as the 350's require 91 octane fuel to get the extra power. Since I will be running 89 octane from marine pumps, I didn't see the point in the 350's when I won't need the extra power. The 300 and 350 blocks are identical so no real weight savings. Here is a pic of one of the two gas tanks to feed the Zukes.

Each gas tank holds around 520 litres so over 1000 litres of fuel should get me the 250 -300nm range easily.

 

[carpeweekend]

A couple of neat innovations that were built in include:

1) Cannonball storage in the step up onto the stern gunnels. Great idea from my builder.
2) I stole @wdlfbio idea and have an ice tote insert going into the centre of aft deck. The gas tanks will be on either side.

 

[ReelSlim]

A couple of neat innovations that were built in include:

1) Cannonball storage in the step up onto the stern gunnels. Great idea from my builder.
2) I stole @wdlfbio idea and have an ice tote insert going into the centre of aft deck. The gas tanks will be on either side.

View attachment 88770

I neat idea for storage and great craftmanship. I would ask him to make sure those SS cap screws are isolated from the aluminum......especially once a third metal is introduced with the cannon balls. I built a storage set up for my side pockets on my back deck but ended up going with 1" Starboard to eliminate any galvanic corrosion issues. Just a thought. Great build....

 

[Bill 310]

This is going to be such a fantastic build and an even more than fantastic boat.

I am curious about the triple 300's. Because Suzuki makes both a duo-prop and conventional 300's is it an option to use them in a combo of single prop, dual prop, single prop. I was wondering about this because the 300 single props can have their rotation changed and the centre engine could be a straight thrust motor



Sorry, to ask/wonder this but my ADHD OCD brain takes me to places that scare most people