Natives urge closing of sport fishery to save chinook salmon

[Island Fish Lifter]

"Natives urge closing of sport fishery to save chinook salmon"

Those are fighting words! If the pricks want a war lets give them one!

 

[profisher]

I've told Chris Bos my feeling on how I think this issue should be dealt with. We have to intimidate the FN's just as they intimidate DFO. The rec sector leaders should fire off a document to the FN leaders (not publicly) stating that we are in full agreement with their position. Not only are we going to push publicaly and with DFO that all fishing should end for 10 years. No fishing in BC by anyone with stiff penalties for anyone doing so. We will be asking you (FN's) to sign off on this and to also agree to allow the DFO enforcement people to lay charges with no obstruction from individuals or bands. That would include the Cheehum Band on the Fraser. That would be fun to watch!! What would they do to in response to this? What are their choices? Go along with it and suffer alone with the rest of us, don't think so. Carry on attacking us knowing we will go public with our proposal with a make them look like total hypocrites for turning the offer down. Or back off and find someone to blame. Their tactics seem to work for them, its time we fired back!

 

[reelfast]

good going profisher!!!! i have been advocating a pretty similar approach of painting the WA tribes in a corner and pointing to them as the rapists of the resources. unfortunately, everyone down this way thinks the tribes are untouchable. even the supposed 'conservation' organizations are unwilling to even consider a proposal such as yours for fear of what i don't know.

 

[MRWood]

It's time to turn the natives into regular Canadian citizens, no more of this favouritism bs. No more govt support, no more special tax treatment. They have very little incentive to become contributing members of society. You can look at every race, people or clan on the planet and we've all had something happen back in history to change our way of life, it's called an evolving planet, fair or not.

They call themselves the keepers of the land but are the first to abuse it when given the chance. Granted there are many fine people in the native community and all cannot be painted with the same brush. But it's about time we stopped being held for ransom by a group that is a tiny fraction of the overall population.

 

[Last Chance]

Yes, and no one has actually said how targetting a fish in the spawning river gives the population a better chance then targetting a specific fish that is diluted by thousands, if not millions of fish.

Bullsh*t on conservation, just look in the ditch by where any of the ceremonial "White van on the side of the road" salmon peddlers is operating at the end of the day.

 

[Last Chance]

One other thing. If anyone wants to plead the FN case, please find a board that is sympathetic with the FN cause.. If one exists.. They are a lot of work to maintain.

 

[chris73]

Mr. decining stocks, may I counter with a question? There is plenty evidence that ocean sport interception of ET Chinooks is minuscule compared to FN in-river interception. Why would you, if you are TRULY worried about the survival of this species, try solving the issue by eliminating the least impact while not looking at the biggest impact? Hm? I know where you coming from politically but that doesn't make it right. And playing political games on DFO's wrong scheme should make you ashamed in the face of an endangered species. So here is your choice, either you want to save these salmon then do the RIGHT thing or play political games but then admit that you don't care about the survival of those fish. Which one is it, declining stocks?

 

[Bassblaster]

I agree with Profisher that something has to be done, but what?

Unlike the rest of Canadians, FN are treated with kidd gloves anytime an issue arrives. Why is that? Could it be because unlike the rest of Canadians when something happens to them on any political level they will actually DO something about it.

Oca, armed roadblocks on hi-ways and logging roads, huge marches on Parliament. Seems to me that the rest of the country should start manning up. We get crapped on all the time and do nothing.

I do not begrudge the FN, or any culture in Canada, the right to maintain their heritage. It's what makes us Canadians and it would be a sad day in this country to see those cultures disappear. But my understanding of history is that nets were NOT part of native culture until the white-man introduced them. Would there be an issue if for all those years the natives had continued to fish the salmon in their traditional ways?

My point is if you are going to use tradition as an excuse, it had better be Real tradition. "Traditionally" we All used to hunt with spears and bows, and now we don't. Not us, and not the FN.

MRW hits the nail on the head. It's time we were all Canadians, and not some splinter group with special privileges.

 

[Big Green Machine]

FN used traps and weirs traditionally and these devices completely choked off a river. So, to say FN should use traditional fishing methods (spears) when they are claiming traditional fishing rights, does not make much sense. Even some of their traditional methods were not very conservation minded and I doubt we want those options encouraged.

 

[reelfast]

traps and weirs allow selective harvest just like you and me. they would also allow slot enforcement at the same time. gill nets, obviously, kill anything and everything.

 

[Last Chance]

But the whole idea of traps and spears just makes it that much more work to get the fish. It adds value to them, and if one has to expend a little more effort the throwing a gilnet out of a boat, I bet the catch goes down.

 

[scott craven]

Ultimately, the FN destroy their own conservation ideals,when
they ***** and complain about recreational catch in the ocean
and then target their own spawner's in the river.
This isn't about conservation, it is plain and simply about greed.

 

[reelfast]

This isn't about conservation, it is plain and simply about greed.

same story down this way, no question. i guess they can't be happy with their casino's and their tax free exemptions in WA state. these folks really have learned how to grease the political machine to their advantage. all of that while the sport angling community splits in a thousand different directions 'cause, afterall, each of us has THE solution to fix the declining stock situation. the advantage the FN and tribes have is their single minded objective BUCKS.

 

[declining stocks]

Mr. decining stocks, may I counter with a question? There is plenty evidence that ocean sport interception of ET Chinooks is minuscule compared to FN in-river interception. Why would you, if you are TRULY worried about the survival of this species, try solving the issue by eliminating the least impact while not looking at the biggest impact? Hm? I know where you coming from politically but that doesn't make it right. And playing political games on DFO's wrong scheme should make you ashamed in the face of an endangered species. So here is your choice, either you want to save these salmon then do the RIGHT thing or play political games but then admit that you don't care about the survival of those fish. Which one is it, declining stocks?

Good morning Mr. Chris73, Thanks for the question. Actually there is not plenty of evidence or data on ocean sport interception. Even today everyone is waiting for the CWT data for 2010. that is one of the problems with this situation. DFO is manageing on last years fisheries not based on the brood year information. IF DFO had a better handle on receiving data from catches in a more timely manner than perhaps this would be a mute point. Speaking of brood, do you know what returned in 2007 to the spawning grounds? and do you know what the recent recuit/spawner number is? Besides what was mentioned in the G & M on the Coldwater, Spius and Nicola; Deadman River only had 301 Chinook return, Louis creek 31 returned, Bessett only 3 and bonaparte is the "saviour" at 1046. The DFO Recruit/spawner number is .62 which means that recently only .62 fish returned for every spawner. That can be prjected at only 3 returning to Bessett, let's hope that 1. they find each other in the system and 2 that the three are not all one gender. How low do the numbers have to get before ALL fishers take notice? again does anyone want to be bringing your grandchildren out on the boat to enjoy a days fishing? i guess you all still can, just fish for whatever is left out there. or perhaps DFO will allow fishermen to drop their hooks into one of the fish farm net pens. but i guess that is a different post board.

Have a great day in the sunshine.

 

[reelfast]

mr decling stocks, the escapement numbers are appauling. can you please post the catch numbers from the inriver gillnetting? thanks.

 

[mr eagle]

Heard from a couple different groups that were fishing sturg on the fraser near Chilliwack that there is already netting taking place out there.

 

[declining stocks]

mr decling stocks, the escapement numbers are appauling. can you please post the catch numbers from the inriver gillnetting? thanks.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/LFReports/2010LFACN.pdf
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/UpperFraser/FNHarvestReport.pdf

check page 3 on second link. In river gillnetting did not occur in 2010 during this time period. Lower River and upper/mid First nations did not fish in order to conserve these stocks in 2010. Oh, AND there was no recreational fisheries in Mid river on these stocks either. The SFAB in the River supported this closure to protect and conserve these stocks of concern, which is listed under DFO as a 1 in their IFMP.

 

[Bassblaster]

FN used traps and weirs traditionally and these devices completely choked off a river. So, to say FN should use traditional fishing methods (spears) when they are claiming traditional fishing rights, does not make much sense. Even some of their traditional methods were not very conservation minded and I doubt we want those options encouraged.

Fair enough and I see your point. I guess that goes back to trying to remember my middle school social studies classes. All I could remember was the barbed spears and the long handled lacrosse looking things that they would catch jumping salmon with and flip them to the bank. Weirs and fish traps didn't cross my mind. But something else that did was that the FN tribes ,from the days that salmon choked the rivers there were so many, only fished for the individual villages needs. They'd take only what they needed to sustain the tribe and then stop. They didn't over harvest the crap out of something because they could, and sell them.

Once there was money to be made they did exactly what all the european immigrants of the time did: they exploited it.

I guess my point is tradition is tradition. Commerce is commerce.

 

[reelfast]

this is the rock and the hard spot bassblaster. first we taught them how to exploit the resource and now we want them to stop. i suppose that means that i would agree with that if the pain was equally spread to the commercials, FN and sport angling communities. but what the FN and the WA tribes propose is everyone else takes the hit while they go about the business of exploiting the resource for bucks. that is what really contributes to my bad perspective of all of the FNs and WA tribes. hell, if my ancestors had not walked across the ice bridge, none of these folks would exist. so i am thinking that i should go claim my 'heritage' and fish and hunt whenever the mood strikes.

 

[Bassblaster]

this is the rock and the hard spot bassblaster. first we taught them how to exploit the resource and now we want them to stop. i suppose that means that i would agree with that if the pain was equally spread to the commercials, FN and sport angling communities. but what the FN and the WA tribes propose is everyone else takes the hit while they go about the business of exploiting the resource for bucks. that is what really contributes to my bad perspective of all of the FNs and WA tribes. hell, if my ancestors had not walked across the ice bridge, none of these folks would exist. so i am thinking that i should go claim my 'heritage' and fish and hunt whenever the mood strikes.

Agreed. Some days I wish I could do the same. And I agree that they can't just blame everyone else for their plight.

There's a great old German saying that goes "When you point a finger at someone else, there are three pointing back at you". If you want to save a resource, everyone takes the hit or the resource is gone. More important than that, this world opperates on the LAW of Give and Take, in that order. For years we've all been taking, and yeh, we have the hatchery programs which the gov. is busy cutting back to the point where scientists are already predicting food shortages. If they want to rebuild the stocks it is going to take a hell of a lot more Give than to close the fishery temporarily. It's time we all put our efforts into restoring the resources instead of pointing fingers and bitching there's no fish.

I say we add proper management and hatchery efforts and funding to all the letter writing being done about the 88/12 halibut issue. And before anyone says I'm making that an ecological issue, I'm Not. I'm saying they are two different, but more than equally important ones. Remember, if DFO were to take away all 88% of commercial halibut fishing and give it all to the sport sector, but we wipe out the resource anyway, 100% of nothing is still nothing. And that math is the same whether your a commie, a sporty, a lodge, a rec fisherperson, or a native.