Early Halibut Opening

[searun]

Personally I'd like to know the composition of said working group.
As in how many that sit on it are guides or lodge representatives as apposed to regular fishing folks.

I'll wait...

I'm personally offended by that remark Nog. You know me. My involvement in the SFAB process is guided by trying to do the right thing for our fishery period. The SFAB process is structured to ensure that regardless of who steps up to volunteer or become engage be they tin boat angler, independent guide (which you and I are), lodge operators - we all work for the broader interests of the entire fishery.

I'll wait for you to rescind your remarks..............

 

[ziggy]

The data is not wasted. Last year the iREC survey was changed. Fishers who recorded any halibut catch, where directed to go get their paper or electronic license and provide the actual lengths recorded. There were a number of other very helpful data inputs questioned. We requested the raw iREC files which allowed us to construct a very detailed analysis of where the recreational catch was taking place, by length of halibut, location, multi-day (2fish) limits etc. This is very time consuming - I personally devoted many hours. We just received the 2024 data, and will be constructing a similar analysis. With 2023 and 24, that will help better inform using actual data what size halibut are being caught, where, and we should be able to gain a sense of the effects of 2 fish limits.

Very clearly with the available TAC we have this season, it is impossible to plan a full season structured in the same manner as last season (1 over or 2 unders).

We do know that the biomass has shifted significantly to be dominated by small fish (65 - 90cm). IREC data last year confirmed this as well. The IPHC set line survey data also confirmed this same trend. IPHC stock assessment noted also the commercial catch was dominated by the 2012 and 2016 age cohorts (these same size fish). So, it is likely that if we planned a 2 fish possession regulation option we would use up a lot of TAC quickly because that is the size of fish most available to catch. That being the case, the only option would be to shorten the season (June - Aug) unless we investigate and consider other alternatives that slow down how we use TAC.

We have no prior experience and detailed data for a 1 fish (1/1 possession) option, so the hope is by completing a more detailed analysis of the iREC data it will better inform how the fishery will perform if we considered other options such as 1/1. It will be interesting to see how the 2024 iREC data stacks up once done, and if a 1/1 option could help stretch out the fishery for a longer period. This point is worth repeating - Right now we have less TAC than we used in June - August last year, so clearly we either shorten the season and run it out from June to August, or we identify options that dramatically slow down the use of TAC which might enable us to gain back some of the shoulder season.

Any way we slice it, the old status quo isn't an option so it will be very hard to find a solution that pleases everyone. In that case, the SFAB Halibut survey did indicate a preference for protecting the core season (June to Sept). Anything we can implement to squeeze the TAC and extend the shoulder season out from the core season is a bonus.

Everyone who volunteers on the SFAB Halibut WG knows and appreciates there will be impacts which at this stage of our analysis appears unavoidable as we simply don't have enough TAC. We know that both early and late season opportunities are critically important to different geographic areas and these appear to be in jeopardy. Our desire is to hopefully find some sort of silver bullet to squeeze as much of a season as we can from the available TAC.

Why are the early/ late geographic areas in jeopardy given they are the areas where most of the population lives. I guess maybe you guys have a better handle on who is fishing and when? Be nice to see a breakdown of say Canadian vs foreign fishers.

 

[trophywife]

maybe a stupid spitball here, could there be a line drawn where lodges that can host more than 10 persons become part of the commercial quota? may be a a divide and conquer ideology, but they burn so much sport tac up. dont hate please , just thinking on it.

 

[wildmanyeah]

1 in possession seems like it would free up alot of tac. Everyone still gets an opportunity to take one home and if your spending 10k on a lodge does having an extra 15 pounds of halibut for two in possession really matter make a difference.

I have 4 coworkers who went up their and they booked between the 4 of them over 700 pounds of processed meat salmon ling, halibuts ect onto the plane on the way back.

In a conversation the other day with one of them they were like I just had my second peace last night. You just know it’s gonna go to waste.

 

[IronNoggin]

I'll wait for you to rescind your remarks..............

You will be waiting a very long time.

I have not guided in over a decade. Guess you missed that part.

Have a great day!

 

[Whole in the Water]

Regional regs are of no benefit in spreading out the available TAC....recreational fishers are highly mobile and will just move from one area to the next. The only way that would work is to enforce a limited entry system and you are stuck with the area you select and cannot move. The management implications and complications are limitless.

I'm personally offended by that remark Nog. You know me. My involvement in the SFAB process is guided by trying to do the right thing for our fishery period. The SFAB process is structured to ensure that regardless of who steps up to volunteer or become engage be they tin boat angler, independent guide (which you and I are), lodge operators - we all work for the broader interests of the entire fishery.

I'll wait for you to rescind your remarks..............

Nog’s question is completely legitimate! The composition of all the SFAB and SFAC committees should be completely open for all to see. The SFAB process represents the interests of the public/recreational fishery and we the public have the right to know who is representing us and how they are doing this. Simple honest question that should have a simple honest response.

Could you please let us know where we can find the membership list of all the committees and sub-committees please. Thanks.

 

[Bod]

The recreational fishery is a "sport fishery". It's not about how many pounds of meat you can take home, it's about the opportunity to go out and participate. There's no reason the season shouldn't run from February-December. Make it 1 and done. 10 pound fish if it has to be and everyone can play. If the season needs to be shortened take August out of it. Everyone is busy with Salmon then anyway. February and March only use up a small piece of the pie and don't have great salmon fishing and no lingcod so Halibut is vital to those that want to fish.

 

[SG2.0]

The data is not wasted. Last year the iREC survey was changed. Fishers who recorded any halibut catch, where directed to go get their paper or electronic license and provide the actual lengths recorded. There were a number of other very helpful data inputs questioned. We requested the raw iREC files which allowed us to construct a very detailed analysis of where the recreational catch was taking place, by length of halibut, location, multi-day (2fish) limits etc. This is very time consuming - I personally devoted many hours. We just received the 2024 data, and will be constructing a similar analysis. With 2023 and 24, that will help better inform using actual data what size halibut are being caught, where, and we should be able to gain a sense of the effects of 2 fish limits.

Very clearly with the available TAC we have this season, it is impossible to plan a full season structured in the same manner as last season (1 over or 2 unders).

We do know that the biomass has shifted significantly to be dominated by small fish (65 - 90cm). IREC data last year confirmed this as well. The IPHC set line survey data also confirmed this same trend. IPHC stock assessment noted also the commercial catch was dominated by the 2012 and 2016 age cohorts (these same size fish). So, it is likely that if we planned a 2 fish possession regulation option we would use up a lot of TAC quickly because that is the size of fish most available to catch. That being the case, the only option would be to shorten the season (June - Aug) unless we investigate and consider other alternatives that slow down how we use TAC.

We have no prior experience and detailed data for a 1 fish (1/1 possession) option, so the hope is by completing a more detailed analysis of the iREC data it will better inform how the fishery will perform if we considered other options such as 1/1. It will be interesting to see how the 2024 iREC data stacks up once done, and if a 1/1 option could help stretch out the fishery for a longer period. This point is worth repeating - Right now we have less TAC than we used in June - August last year, so clearly we either shorten the season and run it out from June to August, or we identify options that dramatically slow down the use of TAC which might enable us to gain back some of the shoulder season.

Any way we slice it, the old status quo isn't an option so it will be very hard to find a solution that pleases everyone. In that case, the SFAB Halibut survey did indicate a preference for protecting the core season (June to Sept). Anything we can implement to squeeze the TAC and extend the shoulder season out from the core season is a bonus.

Everyone who volunteers on the SFAB Halibut WG knows and appreciates there will be impacts which at this stage of our analysis appears unavoidable as we simply don't have enough TAC. We know that both early and late season opportunities are critically important to different geographic areas and these appear to be in jeopardy. Our desire is to hopefully find some sort of silver bullet to squeeze as much of a season as we can from the available TAC.

That survey also had number two priority as large fish size if I'm not mistaken. And WMY, going to a 1/1 126cm is an option that would actually benefit local anglers, and punish those here visiting or at lodges, something to look at and I assume will be looked at strongly due to that as well. Do think it will have an effect on US people as Alaska can take up to 5 halibut if 5 days or more in 2C and unlimited possession in 3A. Do have better lingcod limits here though...

The 1/1 will save a good chunk of tac, especially in areas 1, 3, 4 etc which is where majority of tac is eaten up. I think season will still have to be shortened at beginning due to priority to be ensuring June to Aug open (again, this is what survey said is what people want, maybe not all people posting on SFBC but most that answered it). On positive note if way low (doubtful) could open up to more than 1 possession at 126cm I THINK in Sept or Oct which would mainly benefit SVI guys.

 

[SG2.0]

The recreational fishery is a "sport fishery". It's not about how many pounds of meat you can take home, it's about the opportunity to go out and participate. There's no reason the season shouldn't run from February-December. Make it 1 and done. 10 pound fish if it has to be and everyone can play. If the season needs to be shortened take August out of it. Everyone is busy with Salmon then anyway. February and March only use up a small piece of the pie and don't have great salmon fishing and no lingcod so Halibut is vital to those that want to fish.

That's fine and dandy, but survey said most anglers priorities are different. (Not sure how many times this has to be said )

 

[PEETZcanada]

The data is not wasted. Last year the iREC survey was changed. Fishers who recorded any halibut catch, where directed to go get their paper or electronic license and provide the actual lengths recorded. There were a number of other very helpful data inputs questioned. We requested the raw iREC files which allowed us to construct a very detailed analysis of where the recreational catch was taking place, by length of halibut, location, multi-day (2fish) limits etc. This is very time consuming - I personally devoted many hours. We just received the 2024 data, and will be constructing a similar analysis. With 2023 and 24, that will help better inform using actual data what size halibut are being caught, where, and we should be able to gain a sense of the effects of 2 fish limits.

Very clearly with the available TAC we have this season, it is impossible to plan a full season structured in the same manner as last season (1 over or 2 unders).

We do know that the biomass has shifted significantly to be dominated by small fish (65 - 90cm). IREC data last year confirmed this as well. The IPHC set line survey data also confirmed this same trend. IPHC stock assessment noted also the commercial catch was dominated by the 2012 and 2016 age cohorts (these same size fish). So, it is likely that if we planned a 2 fish possession regulation option we would use up a lot of TAC quickly because that is the size of fish most available to catch. That being the case, the only option would be to shorten the season (June - Aug) unless we investigate and consider other alternatives that slow down how we use TAC.

We have no prior experience and detailed data for a 1 fish (1/1 possession) option, so the hope is by completing a more detailed analysis of the iREC data it will better inform how the fishery will perform if we considered other options such as 1/1. It will be interesting to see how the 2024 iREC data stacks up once done, and if a 1/1 option could help stretch out the fishery for a longer period. This point is worth repeating - Right now we have less TAC than we used in June - August last year, so clearly we either shorten the season and run it out from June to August, or we identify options that dramatically slow down the use of TAC which might enable us to gain back some of the shoulder season.

Any way we slice it, the old status quo isn't an option so it will be very hard to find a solution that pleases everyone. In that case, the SFAB Halibut survey did indicate a preference for protecting the core season (June to Sept). Anything we can implement to squeeze the TAC and extend the shoulder season out from the core season is a bonus.

Everyone who volunteers on the SFAB Halibut WG knows and appreciates there will be impacts which at this stage of our analysis appears unavoidable as we simply don't have enough TAC. We know that both early and late season opportunities are critically important to different geographic areas and these appear to be in jeopardy. Our desire is to hopefully find some sort of silver bullet to squeeze as much of a season as we can from the available TAC.

I am sorry, but when you do not collect and retain the data that is recorded on every license issued, then it is in fact lost valuable data. There is no buffering that fact.

 

[SpringVelocity]

I completely changed my stance on this issue after the US president said today "Canada isn't viable enough to be a real country ". Then again threatened the sovereignty of our country. What a hostile neighbor.

We should as soon as possible look into US citizens to be banned from using public fishery halibut quota and also immediately pay three to four times the license fee. Use those fees to benefit our fishery with more quota if needed. If a US citizen wants to retain halibut they buy their own commercial quota.

It's reasonable response to tarrifs being implemented possibly end of month and also the steel industry tarrifs being announced tommorrow.

We also need to stop fighting amongst ourselves. If Canadians don't have enough quota the Americans need to pay to access it and also pay more in our fishery.

 

[tinboatrobb]

I completely changed my stance on this issue after the US president said today "Canada isn't viable enough to be a real country ". Then again threatened the sovereignty of our country.

We should as soon as possible look into US citizens to be banned from using public fishery halibut quota and also immediately pay three to four times the license fee. Use those fees to benefit our fishery with more quota if needed. If a US citizen wants to retain halibut they buy their own commercial quota.

It's reasonable response to tarrifs being implemented possibly end of month and also the steel industry tarrifs being announced tommorrow.

We also need to stop fighting amongst ourselves. If Canadians don't have enough quota the Americans need to pay to access it and also pay more in our fishery.

Exactly.

 

[calmsea]

The argument that lodge customers would cancel fishing trips in droves if only 1 halibut or even 0 in possesion is completely fabricated by this sector to push their interests.

 

[Thunder21]

Agree on Canadian access first but obviously that will have huge negative implications for guides. What about a pulse fishery? 7 on 7 off. Local fisherman and foreign clients will have to schedule accordingly if they want halibut. The lodges catches will be reduced which could provide local Canadians a longer season.

 

[searun]

I am sorry, but when you do not collect and retain the data that is recorded on every license issued, then it is in fact lost valuable data. There is no buffering that fact.

You are correct in that paper license data is not captured. However, electronic license data is available and captured. As is the iREC data, which as explained has a newly enhanced survey feature that captures very robust data. 100% of all licence holders are sent an iREC survey. Obviously we don't get a complete number of responses, however the data is significant. I reviewed 13,281 individual data sets today to complete an analysis of the size ranges where the use of rec halibut TAC came from. That allows us to determine data bins for each cm size band and calculate the amount of pounds that represents. From there its possible to forecast across the wider coastal TAC that was fished. So this data is highly useful.

 

[PEETZcanada]

You are correct in that paper license data is not captured. However, electronic license data is available and captured. As is the iREC data, which as explained has a newly enhanced survey feature that captures very robust data. 100% of all licence holders are sent an iREC survey. Obviously we don't get a complete number of responses, however the data is significant. I reviewed 13,281 individual data sets today to complete an analysis of the size ranges where the use of rec halibut TAC came from. That allows us to determine data bins for each cm size band and calculate the amount of pounds that represents. From there its possible to forecast across the wider coastal TAC that was fished. So this data is highly useful.

Neither one of us are wrong, it isn't my intention to prove who is right or wrong. Nor have my observations ever been closed minded or uneducated. What I have offered are thoughts and ideas, ones that are obtainable and that myseft and others have brought up over the years. My suggestion back 2009 when responded to by a member of DFO at an SFAC meeting, was that we don't want to know our numbers, when in fact, yes I do want to know.

It is what is.

 

[searun]

The recreational fishery is a "sport fishery". It's not about how many pounds of meat you can take home, it's about the opportunity to go out and participate. There's no reason the season shouldn't run from February-December. Make it 1 and done. 10 pound fish if it has to be and everyone can play. If the season needs to be shortened take August out of it. Everyone is busy with Salmon then anyway. February and March only use up a small piece of the pie and don't have great salmon fishing and no lingcod so Halibut is vital to those that want to fish.

That would look something like a 78-79cm - 1 fish/1 possession fishery at best, more likely we would need to drop the size down to 75 cm (8.2 pounds) to create a buffer against early closure. We haven't yet been advised what the final TAC will be - however expecting it to be 630 - 650K.

If that's what people want, we can investigate how to make something like that happen. They didn't tell us that in the survey however.
Doing a simple calculation, using the 2024 data, 66,221 pieces caught x 9.3 pounds for a 78cm fish = 615K. At 79 cm that is a 9.7 pound fish = 642K.

78 cm option leaves no wiggle room, and place risk of an early season closure again. The North Coast strongly advocates for a delayed start or adopting really small slot sizes to ensure they can fish the fall. I suppose an option to keep everyone happy could be to have an odd year cycle where we have a late start one year, and early start the following year to balance the

Again, between June and August last season we used more TAC than we currently have to work with today - we have minimal options.

 

[searun]

Neither one of us are wrong, it isn't my intention to prove who is right or wrong. Nor have my observations ever been closed minded or uneducated. What I have offered are thoughts and ideas, ones that are obtainable and that myseft and others have brought up over the years. My suggestion back 2009 when responded to by a member of DFO at an SFAC meeting, was that we don't want to know our numbers, when in fact, yes I do want to know.

It is what is.

Agreed. And a good suggestion, which is why the SFI worked so hard to get the option of electronic catch recording and licenses implemented. As people adopt the new technology we will get even more robust data, which is super helpful for us to better manage the fishery collaboratively with DFO.

 

[searun]

Nog’s question is completely legitimate! The composition of all the SFAB and SFAC committees should be completely open for all to see. The SFAB process represents the interests of the public/recreational fishery and we the public have the right to know who is representing us and how they are doing this. Simple honest question that should have a simple honest response.

Could you please let us know where we can find the membership list of all the committees and sub-committees please. Thanks.

Minutes, including committee members are all available and shared by local SFAC chairs to their SFAB membership lists, any recreational fisher can join a local SFAC

There is no funding for external communications - so the only official SFAB material that is public facing is what DFO posts.

Sport Fishing Advisory Board | Pacific Region | Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Sport Fishing Advisory Board| Pacific Region | Fisheries and Oceans Canada

www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

 

[Whole in the Water]

Minutes, including committee members are all available and shared by local SFAC chairs to their SFAB membership lists, any recreational fisher can join a local SFAC

There is no funding for external communications - so the only official SFAB material that is public facing is what DFO posts.

Sport Fishing Advisory Board | Pacific Region | Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Sport Fishing Advisory Board| Pacific Region | Fisheries and Oceans Canada

www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

Thanks for this Searun! Where can we find the members names for the various SFAB/SFAC specific sub-committees and working groups like the Halibut working group? Thanks for your reply.