Driving an EV pickup
- Thread starter sly_karma
- Start date
InterMechanico
Well-Known Member
This thread has been really informative. I'm actively looking to take advantage of the current inventory surplus to replace the Atlas with an ID4.
This is good advice for all vehicles driving in cold climates and remote areas. Add some snacks, some drinking water and a couple rolls of toilet paper and you'd have it made in a winter storm or a vehicle breakdown situation.
I've reread your comments, and can't help but ask.... are you shorting TSLA stock?
tinboatrobb
Well-Known Member
Sly Karma, no better more interesting, detailed thread has there been on this forum. Great reading. Thanks.
Umos
Well-Known Member
I am also planning on replacing my Tundra w an EV truck this year or maybe next. The only thing holding me back is the potential for better prices in the months or years ahead. We all know prices skyrocketed on trucks bc of supply/demand imbalance, but the inventory of rebate eligible lightenings aren't yet stacking up, so it's not like it's a buyer's market yet. My feeling is it should be by the fall. Also, the RAM EV truck is meant to start shipping in the fall, so really online in 2025. It's regular battery will be 67% bigger than ford's, but the price point is projected to be somewhat similar (can't remember exactly). So the REV might make the market more competitive as the only thing really similar to the lightening (not crazy expensive or crazy looking). So yeah, I don't know, but my magic 8 ball lands on hold off till at least the summer. Are other's also trying to time their EV truck?
Max123
Well-Known Member
Reading the posts about the Coq, and cold weather performance are interesting.
In reality, the answer is that a decent EV like a Tesla, Rivian, F150 Lighting can handle this journey in any sane weather with very little difference from an internal combustion engine. The advance prep is really just preconditioning the battery to maximize range and all other steps/precautions are basically the same as an ICE vehicle.
What I do find interesting is that with even a minor adjustment to trip prep/vehiccle dynamics - many people who would be comfortable making this trip in any decent ICE vehicle without a second thought seem to be re-thinking the entire risk profile of traveling through the mountains in the winter. All of a sudden the journey requires a secondary heat source, prep for an extended stay, etc, etc. Basic precautions (within reason) were always a good idea regardless of vehicle type.
The reality is that a winter journey on the Coq is perfectly safe in a 20 year old honda civic with snow tires, a full tank of gas, and winter boots, gloves, parka in the trunk. If its not safe for that vehicle, its not safe - period. The other reality is that we tend to imagine extreme/unlikely scenarios and even the most unprepared person is unlikely to freeze to death on the Coq, because we live in a society with other people who will gladly help. Travel on a major public highway carries a totally different risk profile than doing a solo overland adventure in the middle of winter. For most of us, we need to remember the everyday safety precautions that will reduce your actual risk/inconvenience which are often forgotten or simply ignored:
Buy winter tires.
Check road conditions before you leave and delay if necessary.
Check the condition of your spare tire/jack.
Carry a jump pack (sometimes to help others, rather than just yourself).
Wear your seatbelt.
Drive the speed limit.
Carry a first aid kit.
We should be doing this stuff anyway and it will will reduce our actual risk/inconvenience. Don't be the guy driving a Tesla with bald all-seasons tires, but carrying a honda generator in the trunk.
In reality, the answer is that a decent EV like a Tesla, Rivian, F150 Lighting can handle this journey in any sane weather with very little difference from an internal combustion engine. The advance prep is really just preconditioning the battery to maximize range and all other steps/precautions are basically the same as an ICE vehicle.
What I do find interesting is that with even a minor adjustment to trip prep/vehiccle dynamics - many people who would be comfortable making this trip in any decent ICE vehicle without a second thought seem to be re-thinking the entire risk profile of traveling through the mountains in the winter. All of a sudden the journey requires a secondary heat source, prep for an extended stay, etc, etc. Basic precautions (within reason) were always a good idea regardless of vehicle type.
The reality is that a winter journey on the Coq is perfectly safe in a 20 year old honda civic with snow tires, a full tank of gas, and winter boots, gloves, parka in the trunk. If its not safe for that vehicle, its not safe - period. The other reality is that we tend to imagine extreme/unlikely scenarios and even the most unprepared person is unlikely to freeze to death on the Coq, because we live in a society with other people who will gladly help. Travel on a major public highway carries a totally different risk profile than doing a solo overland adventure in the middle of winter. For most of us, we need to remember the everyday safety precautions that will reduce your actual risk/inconvenience which are often forgotten or simply ignored:
Buy winter tires.
Check road conditions before you leave and delay if necessary.
Check the condition of your spare tire/jack.
Carry a jump pack (sometimes to help others, rather than just yourself).
Wear your seatbelt.
Drive the speed limit.
Carry a first aid kit.
We should be doing this stuff anyway and it will will reduce our actual risk/inconvenience. Don't be the guy driving a Tesla with bald all-seasons tires, but carrying a honda generator in the trunk.
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This thread was originally posted to provide a real life experience from an owner and trusted source. For those who don't believe and want to make general statements or assumptions not based on real life experiences, don't bother posting here as it isn't what this thread is about. Questions to the OP are welcome of course.
It doesn't seem that difficult. In some ways it is very similar to managing your fuel situation on the boat.
On the boat we all have to deal with variables such as wind , currents, time till dark, wave height, safety margins, nearest available fuel, etc.
The variables are similar in many ways.
SK,'s detailed reporting has made the ownership of an EV more appealing because he reports facts based on his real world experience.
On the boat we all have to deal with variables such as wind , currents, time till dark, wave height, safety margins, nearest available fuel, etc.
The variables are similar in many ways.
SK,'s detailed reporting has made the ownership of an EV more appealing because he reports facts based on his real world experience.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Thanks, that is very generous. Sometimes I think I'm too wordy and too detailed - surely I've geeked out too far this time! But as boat and fishing guys, we all have a fair degree of detail mania. As @Bill 310 points out, details can sometimes be life-critical on a boat.
Most of the comments and criticisms about EV are founded in fear of the new. You won't see me preaching that everyone needs an EV, but there are plenty of people out there who would get great benefit from owning one, and I hope to answer the questions and allay the fears so that those people start to see the possibilities.
sly_karma
Crew Member
# 1 on my list of winter driving precautions: giving yourself permission NOT to drive at all. Sometimes in a bad storm it's best to get off the road for a few hours and leave it to the plough crews - and the poor professional drivers who don't have much choice.
And not using the bloody Coquihalla.
sly_karma
Crew Member
I can't see how the Ram EV with 200 kWh battery can sell for under 100K seeing as how the battery is the single most expensive component in the vehicle. Doubling its size might not outright double the sell price, but it'll be up in that direction. Cheapest Lightning with the 131 kWh extended range battery has MSRP of CAD 87,000 (MY 2023). The upcoming electrified Silverado RST with 200 kWh pack is 120 K.
If simple component math doesnt bother Dodge and they decide to make a splash with big loss leader pricing, it could be an epic deal.
CIVANO
Well-Known Member
I watched a video of EV's stuck at Tesla charging stations in freezing weather in Chicageo with hours and little or no charge. The video then showed an EV expert saying that most drivers with this problem are failing to condition their batteries before starting the charging and thus the problem and resultind in plugged in abandoned cars. Is there not a conditioning reminder shown before charging can efficiently start?
sly_karma
Crew Member
I'll try to find a followup article I saw about the Chicago incident. As I understand it, they had a data communication problem that took most of the chargers offline, and in the deep cold, the longer wait for remaining chargers chilled down batteries, preconditioned or not. Then the cars were needing 45-60 minutes on charger to get the battery up to temp suitable for accepting full charge rate. Spiraling problem.
For balance, several gas stations in Calgary couldn't operate in last week's cold either.
calgary.citynews.ca
I haven't needed to use a fast charger this month, but I'm going to Sun Peaks later this week and will use the Ford navigation to direct me to a charger en route, which triggers preconditioning as we approach the DCFC. There have been no problems using the home charger so far, charging begins as soon as I plug like always.
For balance, several gas stations in Calgary couldn't operate in last week's cold either.
Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations
Callers to the CityNews660 traffic centre indicated the cold weather was impacting gas pumps across Calgary on Friday.
calgary.citynews.ca
I haven't needed to use a fast charger this month, but I'm going to Sun Peaks later this week and will use the Ford navigation to direct me to a charger en route, which triggers preconditioning as we approach the DCFC. There have been no problems using the home charger so far, charging begins as soon as I plug like always.
Max123
Well-Known Member
NY Times had a decent article on this. The article also points out that its more of an infrastructure / behavior issue as the same problems don't really exist in Sweden, which is significantly colder and where EVs are significantly more common/familiar and there has been more investment in the home/public charging network.
www.nytimes.com
Consider that in large east coast cities there are going to be a lot of people that do not own a parking stall, so they are parking on the street and relying solely on the public charging network - or they are parking in ancient parking garages which haven't been retrofitted yet for EVs. In that context, ownership of an EV could be a lot tougher.
EV ownership with only street parking, or in an old Strata that doesn't have the electrical infrastructure to support an EV charging upgrade is going to be an issue for a lot of people until public EV infrastructure catches up.
Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather
In freezing temperatures, the batteries of electric vehicles can be less efficient and have shorter range, a lesson many Tesla drivers in Chicago learned this week.
Consider that in large east coast cities there are going to be a lot of people that do not own a parking stall, so they are parking on the street and relying solely on the public charging network - or they are parking in ancient parking garages which haven't been retrofitted yet for EVs. In that context, ownership of an EV could be a lot tougher.
EV ownership with only street parking, or in an old Strata that doesn't have the electrical infrastructure to support an EV charging upgrade is going to be an issue for a lot of people until public EV infrastructure catches up.
How does this preconditioning look like? Could you please explain a bit?I'll try to find a followup article I saw about the Chicago incident. As I understand it, they had a data communication problem that took most of the chargers offline, and in the deep cold, the longer wait for remaining chargers chilled down batteries, preconditioned or not. Then the cars were needing 45-60 minutes on charger to get the battery up to temp suitable for accepting full charge rate. Spiraling problem.
For balance, several gas stations in Calgary couldn't operate in last week's cold either.
Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations
Callers to the CityNews660 traffic centre indicated the cold weather was impacting gas pumps across Calgary on Friday.
I haven't needed to use a fast charger this month, but I'm going to Sun Peaks later this week and will use the Ford navigation to direct me to a charger en route, which triggers preconditioning as we approach the DCFC. There have been no problems using the home charger so far, charging begins as soon as I plug like always.
Max123
Well-Known Member
My understanding is this:
Batteries operate best within a specified temperature range. You can see this when your truck turns over slowly on a cold morning or when you are skiing and your cell in an outer pocket has 0% battery after only a few hours.
EVs have battery management systems that control the temperature of the battery (heat it up in the winter, cool it in the summer). When you plug your car in during the winter, you can set an estimated departure time. This will allow the vehicle to 'precondition' the vehicle by using energy from the grid to heat the battery to its optimal temperature, and will also use grid energy to warm up the interior of the vehicle so that you don't need to waste the battery heating up an ice cold cabin. If you don't set a departure date, and just jump in an go - both the interior and the battery will be ice cold, so a lot of the battery's energy is wasted heating itself and the vehicle up.
The current weather has been very helpful in understanding the importance of preheating . So in Calgary where many outdoor lots have plug ins for block heaters, would a 120v block heater plug in keep a battery and vehicle warm enough all day that there would be none of the problems of a cold battery?
The street parking EVs are in a tough position when it gets really cold. But then again technology over time will improve things.
The street parking EVs are in a tough position when it gets really cold. But then again technology over time will improve things.
sly_karma
Crew Member
I guess I should try this to see what happens. I have the Ford mobile charger which can plug into 120V, was planning to use it at SP this weekend as I'll be there for 3 nights. It would take a long time to precondition though, 120V charging delivers 1.5 kW at best whereas my level 2 charger gives almost 8 kW - five times more power. Ability to precondition might be prevented by code in the BMS software if some Ford engineer has decided 1.5 kW isn't enough for pre-con.
Max123
Well-Known Member
One other thing to be careful about using a 120V outlet for charging. Block heaters for most passenger vehicles are 200-400w (larger diesels and industrial engines use much larger ones), so if you are in a parkade with outlets for block heater I suspect that each outlet is NOT on a dedicated circuit. As such, if a few regular vehicles with block heaters are already plugged in, and then an EV also tries to plug in and pull 1.5kw - POP, the breaker trips and everyone freezes. A typical 15amp circuit can only hold 1.8kw (15 x 120v), and 20amp circuits aren't as common.
I see this happen a lot in apartment buildings when EVs plug into the old courtesy outlets on columns, which weren't designed for that kind of load and the panel isn't easily accessible to reset
I see this happen a lot in apartment buildings when EVs plug into the old courtesy outlets on columns, which weren't designed for that kind of load and the panel isn't easily accessible to reset
I did not know that and now that you mention it , that makes sense..
So.... at the end of the day there are 53 pickups and SUVs that won't start and a cold EV that unplugs and quietly drive away?
sly_karma
Crew Member
Most EV makes will automatically precondition their battery if you direct the onboard navigation system to take you to a fast charger.
