Driving an EV pickup

[2xeagle16]

ICBC scraps 2022 electric car after owners faced with $60,000 bill to replace damaged battery

Damage to the EV’s battery voided the vehicle’s warranty and the quoted $60,000 replacement was more than a new car was worth, so ICBC wrote off and scrapped the nearly new automobile.

www.timescolonist.com

This looks like a major issue where a small scratch and dent in the floor pan so small it is hard to notice can write off a new EV car. Having spent a fair bit of time in the bush in trucks, especially the 4x4 type, I know they take a licking and trucks are often not bought to just drive around on flat paved roads. I hope they are designing and armoring the hell out of them to protect the battery.

Tesla's are one off the worst for being written off for battery damage................

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42709679/tesla-insurance-fixes-expense/

 

[Newf]

I can't see the article, paywalled. Was it a Tesla or Hyundai? Those two makers like to build unit batteries where repair or replacement of individual modules isn't possible. Some Tesla models use the battery as a structural element, so damage to the external load bearing skin can turn seemingly minor damage into full replacement.

Lightning battery sits between the frame rails, and it's a collection of modules wired together, allows for individual replacement.

It was a Hyundai, Ioniq 5. My friend has one and he was told that they can do replacement of individual modules. I will check with him again.

 

[sly_karma]

Tesla's are one off the worst for being written off for battery damage................

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42709679/tesla-insurance-fixes-expense/

Specifically, model Y. Its battery is a structural component of the vehicle. Reduces production costs and weight, but even minor accident damage can compromise the entire unit. Sandy Munro, referenced in the article below, is a retired but respected automotive engineer.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tes...pproach has been a,part of the vehicle's body.

 

[Rockfish]

If you cruse the internet you will find some interesting info. For example there was apparently some startup/s in the US who developed process's for refurbishing the floor pan batteries on certain EV's. Essentially the batteries were made out of a very large number of individual cells and it only takes a very small number of failures of a few of those cells to destroy the performance of those batteries. Essentially the startups were pulling the upper body off the battery floor pan of newer EV's, identifying the few bad cells and replacing them and then putting the body back on the floor pan. For this they were charging about $5000. US and had dreams of franchising. $5000 US sounds like a lot but it is nothing compared to 10's of thousands to replace a whole battery which could result in writing off the newer vehicle. I don't think it went very far as reportedly, all of a sudden the battery cell makers were reluctant for some reason to continue to sell them individual cells that they made for the manufacturers batteries and manufactures began to design the batteries to make it impossible to replace individual cells. Certainly designing the cells into banks of connected blocks of cells where you only have to replace that block of cells is better than than having to replace the entire battery when there is damage or a bad cell or two.
I have the feeling the right to repair legislation seems to on the table in Europe but not so much in North America. Perhaps liability with possible battery fires burning down the vehicle is also a factor, however early replacement of vehicles means the sale of more vehicles and more profits. Many in the manufacturing sector seem to have adopted this model, not just EV car manufactures. I suspect that gone are the days of getting a half million to a million miles out of some fuel powered vehicle.

 

[sly_karma]

Tesla Model Y 2 motor LR and Performance are definitely offenders on lack of repairability front ( the RWD version has the Blade LiFePO4 battery made by BYD). The model Y family also happens to be the biggest selling EV on the planet. Not good.

Early days yet for EV. I think we will see a lot of evolution in the next decade. Ultra minimalist screen-only interiors are being rejected by many prospective buyers, never mind that Tesla has doubled down on its refresh of the model 3 and dumped blinker and windshield stalks completely. I could adapt to the all screen concept, but no stalks or shift lever? Ugh.

 

[Aquaholic]

I could adapt to the all screen concept, but no stalks or shift lever? Ugh.

When they removed the foot operated starter button, foot operated high beam switch, and foot operated windshield washer activator, the automobile world went to helll.

 

[sly_karma]

When they removed the foot operated starter button, foot operated high beam switch, and foot operated windshield washer activator, the automobile world went to helll.

Hi/lo beam control underfoot was pretty good I thought. Not sure why it disappeared. Fast forward to 2023, lots of vehicles - mine included - have rain sensing wipers and automatic high beam headlights. Works exactly as it sounds. Great feature.

Also on Lightning: steerable headlights. Noticeable at low speeds.

 

[2xeagle16]

Tesla Model Y 2 motor LR and Performance are definitely offenders on lack of repairability front ( the RWD version has the Blade LiFePO4 battery made by BYD). The model Y family also happens to be the biggest selling EV on the planet. Not good.

Early days yet for EV. I think we will see a lot of evolution in the next decade. Ultra minimalist screen-only interiors are being rejected by many prospective buyers, never mind that Tesla has doubled down on its refresh of the model 3 and dumped blinker and windshield stalks completely. I could adapt to the all screen concept, but no stalks or shift lever? Ugh.

Tesla’s are also a nightmare to have collision repair done - wait time and cost. Insurance premiums are much more expensive when compared to the average car.

 

[e-zee]

I can't see the article, paywalled. Was it a Tesla or Hyundai? Those two makers like to build unit batteries where repair or replacement of individual modules isn't possible. Some Tesla models use the battery as a structural element, so damage to the external load bearing skin can turn seemingly minor damage into full replacement.

Lightning battery sits between the frame rails, and it's a collection of modules wired together, allows for individual replacement.

My daughter's 2019 Model 3 Tesla had its main HV battery pack replaced in August and it took less than a day to do. I grew up in Northern BC and my family still lives there. Everyone talks about range and battery degradation in a cold climate but the battery pack located under the car is a major concern in frozen winters. I would be scared to drive a EV car with limited ground clearance on frozen roads that the city hasn't plowed for 3 days and trucks have rutted up. It's not uncommon to run over a chunk of frozen ice and that will f$%^ up a $30k battery pack. I'm a fan of the electric vehicle technology but it has its place which is a city like Victoria that is temperate and rarely snows. Forcing a technology on the masses is a negative. We need the reliabilty of diesel pick-ups and electric cars will find their niche.

 

[onefish]

Hi/lo beam control underfoot was pretty good I thought. Not sure why it disappeared. Fast forward to 2023, lots of vehicles - mine included - have rain sensing wipers and automatic high beam headlights. Works exactly as it sounds. Great feature.

Also on Lightning: steerable headlights. Noticeable at low speeds.

I don't want a gdam spaceship, just an A-B truck. Just more crap that is expensive to fix when it inevitably breaks. I guess this is why trucks commonly go for 100K these days.

 

[2xeagle16]

My daughter's 2019 Model 3 Tesla had its main HV battery pack replaced in August and it took less than a day to do. I grew up in Northern BC and my family still lives there. Everyone talks about range and battery degradation in a cold climate but the battery pack located under the car is a major concern in frozen winters. I would be scared to drive a EV car with limited ground clearance on frozen roads that the city hasn't plowed for 3 days and trucks have rutted up. It's not uncommon to run over a chunk of frozen ice and that will f$%^ up a $30k battery pack. I'm a fan of the electric vehicle technology but it has its place which is a city like Victoria that is temperate and rarely snows. Forcing a technology on the masses is a negative. We need the reliabilty of diesel pick-ups and electric cars will find their niche.

Solid-state batteries are the next big thing for EV’s – they’re “predicting” 500,000 mile life and 600 mile range. They are also at least 10 years away before they are ready for the average car.

 

[Bill 310]

I was out running errands yesterday Granville Island 8:30 am to pick up the Turducken and then Costco 9;15 for last minutes supplies .

On my way home after doing the recycling I went by the Ford dealership in North Van (it was closed ) for a little unintended sticker shock therapy.

23 of the 27 Lightnings were priced over $100,000, 2 were priced under $74,000 -XLTs with the small battery and eligible for the rebate , and the remainder were closer to 100K.

The most expensive model was $ 122,655 before taxes, fees, luxury taxes, etc.

The price of all new vehicles astounds me .

At some point one wonders if Ford is going to have to offer significant and substantial discounts on these higher end Lightnings to move them.

A $5,000 price reduction is needed just to counter the Grant , but that may not be enough to inspire folks to buy.

 

[kaelc]

When they removed the foot operated starter button, foot operated high beam switch, and foot operated windshield washer activator, the automobile world went to helll.

The foot high beam was the bomb, the others were before my time!

XLT is a pretty good package but 74k? At least it looks they have finally matched Toyota who has offered heated seats on almost every model these days from the Corolla up for the past 6 years. I think we’ll need good old 10-30k factory rebates to move 100k 1/2 tons now that the cyber truck has launched.

 

[Aquaholic]

The foot high beam was the bomb, the others were before my time!

XLT is a pretty good package but 74k? At least it looks they have finally matched Toyota who has offered heated seats on almost every model these days from the Corolla up for the past 6 years. I think we’ll need good old 10-30k factory rebates to move 100k 1/2 tons now that the cyber truck has launched.

You should have experienced trying to pass someone in a rainstorm and have your wipers stop working due to the vacuum drop from vacuum operated wipers when you floored it. Same car had the foot operated windshield washer. Fully fold down seats made up for those quirks though.

This sales slump in the EV truck model in this thread, I thought at first it could be temporary due to rates, however factories usually have their own financing rates and rebates. Maybe the absorption rate has caught up for awhile. Years ago, a sales boost post Christmas was not uncommon, so I would watch the inventory for awhile to see. Ford truck owners have been very loyal.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The price of all new vehicles astounds me .

There is a lot of YouTube videos that have came out in the last few months talking about how dealerships are full with 2023 vehicles.

 

[sly_karma]

Most auto makers have had their production capabilities out of sync with demand since the pandemic's early months. Tesla was the only notable sales increase success during the supply chain disruptions of 2020-2022, almost everyone else was down 10-20% due to component short aves

 

[Rockfish]

The foot high beam was the bomb, the others were before my time!

XLT is a pretty good package but 74k? At least it looks they have finally matched Toyota who has offered heated seats on almost every model these days from the Corolla up for the past 6 years. I think we’ll need good old 10-30k factory rebates to move 100k 1/2 tons now that the cyber truck has launched.

I also loved the high beam floor tap button, but in the day I was used to using my feet for car functions. I had a 1957 VW Bug that did not have a gas gauge. When the motor started to sputter you moved your foot over and flipped a lever sideways and you where good for another 30 miles to go and fill up. That sucker also had 36 hp and a 6 volt electrical system with the famous dull yellowish headlights.

 

[sly_karma]

I also loved the high beam floor tap button, but in the day I was used to using my feet for car functions.

Yeah it's a different world now, 99% of the time I use the accelerator pedal only, regen does almost all the deceleration. Polar opposite of my old motorcycle days when both hands and both feet were active, right hand doing two things at once.

Some people think it's all wrong to lose those active operations, much scorn for paddle shifters in the early days too. Whatever, doesn't bother me. Not wrong, just different.

 

[kaelc]

Yeah it's a different world now, 99% of the time I use the accelerator pedal only, regen does almost all the deceleration. Polar opposite of my old motorcycle days when both hands and both feet were active, right hand doing two things at once.

Some people think it's all wrong to lose those active operations, much scorn for paddle shifters in the early days too. Whatever, doesn't bother me. Not wrong, just different.

I can’t see not having a foot on the brake pedal being good, but automatic braking might make up for it. I wish we were seeing a decline in accidents with a corresponding decline in insurance rates, with all the safety features on cars, especially the anti collision ones.

 

[sly_karma]

I can’t see not having a foot on the brake pedal being good, but automatic braking might make up for it. I wish we were seeing a decline in accidents with a corresponding decline in insurance rates, with all the safety features on cars, especially the anti collision ones.

Brake pedal is right there when needed as always, and I'm sure one could keep the left foot hovering over it in case of emergency. But one pedal driving is simple and effective once you're used to it.