fish brain
Crew Member
That truck carries three days power consumption for the average house.
You provide the power during peak load times and take it back out at low load times.
Driving an EV pickup
- Thread starter sly_karma
- Start date
You provide the power during peak load times and take it back out at low load times.
sly_karma
Crew Member
There's a big pumped hydro project being built in Australia at the moment, an add-on/modification of the mid 20th century Snowy Mountains Scheme. As well as turning a series of dams into huge storage batteries to help absorb periods of excess production of renewable power, Snowy 2.0 also gives greater control of release of irrigation water to the enormous agricultural areas along the huge Murray basin that are all struggling for a share of the water.
The project was rushed through approvals due to political pressure (seems to happen everywhere) like, so it has suffered most of the usual plan fast/build slow problems.
Snowy Mountains Scheme - Wikipedia
Snowy 2.0 Pumped Storage Power Station - Wikipedia
sly_karma
Crew Member
My electrician and I discussed a sub panel and transfer switch setup so I could power 6-8 key house circuits in a power outage. Cost estimate was $1200-1500. Reasonable, but we just don't get lengthy blackouts here. Can't remember the last time we had a 4+ hour event.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Thinking about V2L (vehicle to load) a bit more. The key energy load in a house is HVAC, hot water heater is second. Say you have a moderate size home, 2500 sq ft. The AC or heat pump unit is likely on a 240V 30A circuit, which happens to be the same as the outlet that Lightning has in its bed. It would be pretty simple to wire that one circuit to an exterior plug via a transfer switch so that the truck could power AC/heat pump, great in a power outage.
In a location where peak/off peak rates were in play, though, you could elect to manually use the transfer switch and run the HVAC from the truck's battery. That unit would pull a maximum of 6 kW at full load, so even with heat or AC running flat out, getting through that 6-8 hour window of peak electricity price would still consume less than half of Lightning's 98 kWh (standard range) or 131 kWh (extended range) battery. Then of course you flip the switch at 11 pm or whenever cheap rates kick in, returning the home to lowest cost energy, and replenishing vehicle battery for tomorrow. Now of course this concept really makes sense if the vehicle's normal at-home period overlaps with a majority of the peak energy price timeslot, other routines not so much.
Bet ya someone is already making a transfer switch that automates all of this so the flip can happen at preprogrammed times. Friends back in Australia have a controller on their solar setup that detects low or high power generation and automatically directs charge to house or grid or EV for best efficiency and cost saving. Getting such setup approved safe by local authorities, well there's another battle again. Most electrical code rules are there because someone died, so fair enough that they're cautious and suspicious of new products.
In theory, power grid managers welcome V2L, home battery storage and the like. These are all ways of reducing spikes in demand and generation, and balancing the grid. Homeowners with energy storage in the form of home batteries and V2L-capable EVs are essentially helping to fund a dispersed storage network. If peak/off peak pricing becomes an option in BC, you'll see a lot of people jump on it. After all, we do have the highest per capita EV ownership in Canada.
In a location where peak/off peak rates were in play, though, you could elect to manually use the transfer switch and run the HVAC from the truck's battery. That unit would pull a maximum of 6 kW at full load, so even with heat or AC running flat out, getting through that 6-8 hour window of peak electricity price would still consume less than half of Lightning's 98 kWh (standard range) or 131 kWh (extended range) battery. Then of course you flip the switch at 11 pm or whenever cheap rates kick in, returning the home to lowest cost energy, and replenishing vehicle battery for tomorrow. Now of course this concept really makes sense if the vehicle's normal at-home period overlaps with a majority of the peak energy price timeslot, other routines not so much.
Bet ya someone is already making a transfer switch that automates all of this so the flip can happen at preprogrammed times. Friends back in Australia have a controller on their solar setup that detects low or high power generation and automatically directs charge to house or grid or EV for best efficiency and cost saving. Getting such setup approved safe by local authorities, well there's another battle again. Most electrical code rules are there because someone died, so fair enough that they're cautious and suspicious of new products.
In theory, power grid managers welcome V2L, home battery storage and the like. These are all ways of reducing spikes in demand and generation, and balancing the grid. Homeowners with energy storage in the form of home batteries and V2L-capable EVs are essentially helping to fund a dispersed storage network. If peak/off peak pricing becomes an option in BC, you'll see a lot of people jump on it. After all, we do have the highest per capita EV ownership in Canada.
Sly, doesn't this though just add a lot more hrs to the trucks battery usage?
Thunder21
Well-Known Member
You are exactly right. Once the time of use billing comes into play which I’ve heard is soon, battery packs in garages with a bit of solar will probably be a popular solution for people wanting to avoid the peak time pricing but not change their habits.
Swap to the battery for 4 or 5 hours a day and back to the grid after. I never considered using a vehicle but I guess it’s basically the same thing. Not a bad setup but pretty costly.
sly_karma
Crew Member
It would be more discharge/recharge cycles for sure, but a slow steady discharge vs the variable loads of driving.
Something I noticed when I was experimenting with plugging in a travel trailer into the Lightning and running AC, microwave, etc, was the truck's battery cooling system kicked in. You could hear fan and circ pump running to keep it all at optimum temp. Thermal management is the key reason why EVs of 2023 have way better range and longevity than even from 7-8 years ago. Definitely better than any bank of LiFePo or AGM batteries we have in our boats or off grid solar cabins.
sly_karma
Crew Member
If you have the vehicle anyway, and it's parked lots of the time (remember we only drive 50 km a day on average), there could be a good financial case to use that battery for a second purpose - IF vehicle use fits with house needs.
Compared to the Tesla Powerwall home battery, EV seems like decent value. In Canada, one Powerwall module of 14 kWh capacity costs $14,000. So I'd need to buy 7 of those to get the same capacity my Lightning has, that's $98,000. Ummm, Lightning cost me $72,000, plus it's a truck...
sly_karma
Crew Member
I'd like to check out a Cybertruck in detail, preferably with an owner there to answer questions. They've had years to develop the design, surely it can't be as conceptual and impractical as it looks. Tesla's engineering and software integration are world leaders, so I wouldn't write it off. Although the styling is ahh... controversial.
zurk
Well-Known Member
TBH i was disappointed by the thing. i was expecting to be blown away but its got variably sized panel gaps everywhere. as you walk up to it the front wheel wells look a couple of inches off from the body panels. doors are misaligned (slightly but since its got weird angles its obvious). cameras are sunk into weird triangle shaped areas (what you cant just recess a round lens?). the 4-5ft long windscreen wiper is just weird. idk if that light bar thing will be enough to light up the road at night. teslas crappy manufacturing sucks. maybe they should outsource the thing to ford. at least the f150 lightning is manufactured well. not that i particularly care for EVs but i'll give ford the fact that they put it together nicely.
Thunder21
Well-Known Member
It’s not a bad idea. It’s a bit off topic but for those that have made the choice to go all electric and don’t like the bills associated with the rise of rates that is coming and the time of use that is coming, I think the cheapest option to offset the costs may be a basic grid tie solar system and not go with a battery in the home at all.
The thing that I don’t like about electrifying everything is you don’t know what the future holds. If rates rise a lot or if the peak rates are really high , you are only going to have a couple options . You either pay the high monthly cost or you spend a lot of money and add more equipment to your home to offset it.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Tesla served up some real lessons to the so-called legacy auto makers. Their giga-casting concept is a genuine leap forward in vehicle manufacturing, other makers like Toyota are working to incorporate it into their own processes. And their unified approach that views software, drive train and charging network as interlinked parts of a single system, that is streets in front of conventional automotive thought.
The mainstream car makers have viewed firmware and software as add-ons to their core stream of building engines, transmissions and chassis platforms ever since engine management systems came into being back in the 80s. Many auto makers even to this day outsource development and production of these systems, then bolt on the components. Designs have to be checked, coordinated and finalized before each model year production run. Compare to Tesla where everything is engineered in house, and improvements can be incorporated on the fly, or added to vehicles already in service by over the air updates.
So Tesla has done amazing things by not thinking like a conventional car manufacturer. But that is also their weakness, there is a vast amount of corporate knowledge acquired over a century of production and feedback. Lots of Tesla owners who bought Lightnings comment that the Ford's build quality and interior are much superior. The insistence on proceeding with the stainless body flies in the face of automotive industry experience, who found the forming and shaping problems to be so numerous that the concept was abandoned decades ago.
Tesla reminds me a lot of Apple: determined to do things their way, and to always be distinctive. Both brands have some truly brilliant engineering, and both at times put style before function.
sly_karma
Crew Member
I should also say the Tesla to Lightning converts all say their Tesla has better software, user interface and charge speed. General consensus is the ideal truck would have a Ford cab, body, ride quality and interior, fitted with Tesla drive train, charge network and software.
sly_karma
Crew Member
The cab this morning from downtown to Victoria Airport was a Tesla Model X. Driver said odometer is 480,000 km now, has 85% of original battery range. Still on its original set of brake pads. Only nagging problem is the gullwing doors, he says they sometimes get out of sync and have to be reset.
Imagine the cost savings for a cab once the steep upfront price was paid down.
Imagine the cost savings for a cab once the steep upfront price was paid down.
sly_karma
Crew Member
Fairly detailed look at Cybertruck interior, exterior and driving impressions. Finally we know battery size: 126 kWh, more than Lightning SR (98 kWh), similar to ER (131 kWh).
Interesting that it has all-wheel steering with fly by wire control. Super tight low speed turning radius for a vehicle this size. But kooky stuff like the P-N-R-D shift selector is a series of buttons mounted on the head liner, of all places. No physical indicator or wiper stalks, very reminiscent of Apple's insistence on no physical buttons.
Interesting that it has all-wheel steering with fly by wire control. Super tight low speed turning radius for a vehicle this size. But kooky stuff like the P-N-R-D shift selector is a series of buttons mounted on the head liner, of all places. No physical indicator or wiper stalks, very reminiscent of Apple's insistence on no physical buttons.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
100% the doors wont open when their frosted up
