DFO is still allowing Coho to be slaughtered

[Slabbedout]

Just drove through the area this weekend. I grew up on the Gorge and those creeks and am the second generation that fished them, Something my children and grandchildren will likely never experience. Close to 80 years history of association.
Neither the Craigflower(deadmans) Creek nor Colquitz Creek watersheds bear any resemblance to their original configuration. Highway construction and Urban Development have destroyed both watersheds. Its a wonder there are still fish in either.

CR Greg

I grew up in CR and was up there last week, seems like that south Doqwood area is just exploding. I remember as a kid catching some really nice sea run cutthroat in simms and willow creeks. Simms was so thick with pinks in September it was crazy ! I remember when they built the sea walk and changed the culverts at the Highway. That was probably the last straw.

 

[Stosh]

Just drove through the area this weekend. I grew up on the Gorge and those creeks and am the second generation that fished them, Something my children and grandchildren will likely never experience. Close to 80 years history of association.
Neither the Craigflower(deadmans) Creek nor Colquitz Creek watersheds bear any resemblance to their original configuration. Highway construction and Urban Development have destroyed both watersheds. Its a wonder there are still fish in either.

CR Greg

Way too many obstacles for sure.
Colquitz Creek has had a camera system installed this season. It hasn’t been fully operational, but in the last week 83 Coho have swam past heading upstream. Hopefully more rain will come soon to allow them further upstream.
We are hoping Craigflower will have a camera system installed for the 2023 season.
Stosh

 

[gone fishin]

Shawnigan Creek flowing into Mill Bay are having excellent returns of Coho

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Shawnigan Creek flowing into Mill Bay are having excellent returns of Coho

I think the biggest problem this year is the lack of rain. This was an excellent year for coho fishing in the ocean and has been for most years recently. Maybe letting go wild coho is not the problem we think it is.Maybe the survival rate is quite high.

 

[Stosh]

3 days ago, after we had about 17mm of rain and high tides Coho started showing up in Craigflower Creek north of the highway! Better late than never.
Stosh

 

[CRGreg]

3 days ago, after we had about 17mm of rain and high tides Coho started showing up in Craigflower Creek north of the highway! Better late than never.
Stosh

Fish are still waiting to get into Black Creek

 

[profisher]

Why would hatchery managers lie to me?

Funding from the community that is why. How much money would they not raise from local anglers if they found out they were supporting a hatchery that didn't mark fish for retention? That is your answer.

 

[dnibbles]

Hmmmm, lots of inaccurate info on this thread.

Virtually all of the coho that are produced from hatcheries to support fisheries are adipose fin clipped in southern BC. There's an Autofish marking trailer operating at Quinsam hatchery this week marking all their coho smolts, Big Q marks all of theirs, Puntledge marks all of their smolts, Robertson Creek marks all of their smolts, Conuma marks all of their smolts, Nitinat marks all of their smolts, etc etc. Same in the Lower Mainland. A few smaller community-based hatcheries do not, although I believe most of them are now, especially those that release coho in any significant numbers (e.g. Oyster R, Fanny Bay, Alouette, etc).

The idea that a significant % of hatchery coho are swimming around unmarked in the ocean is a myth. The reason the mark rates are low is because there are just that many more wild coho out there. Yes, a small (<5%) fraction of hatchery releases may not be clipped for various reasons, but it isn't many.

To the point of the original poster, there are probably some valid reasons why the coho marine MSF is southern BC does need a hard look, as I don't think it is really achieving the objective that was originally envisioned 20+ years ago when it was implemented.I don't believe that the marine MSF is having a significant population-level impact on wild unmarked coho in Craigflower Creek or elsewhere. Likely other factors driving that trend.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Hmmmm, lots of inaccurate info on this thread.

Virtually all of the coho that are produced from hatcheries to support fisheries are adipose fin clipped in southern BC. There's an Autofish marking trailer operating at Quinsam hatchery this week marking all their coho smolts, Big Q marks all of theirs, Puntledge marks all of their smolts, Robertson Creek marks all of their smolts, Conuma marks all of their smolts, Nitinat marks all of their smolts, etc etc. Same in the Lower Mainland. A few smaller community-based hatcheries do not, although I believe most of them are now, especially those that release coho in any significant numbers (e.g. Oyster R, Fanny Bay, Alouette, etc).

The idea that a significant % of hatchery coho are swimming around unmarked in the ocean is a myth. The reason the mark rates are low is because there are just that many more wild coho out there. Yes, a small (<5%) fraction of hatchery releases may not be clipped for various reasons, but it isn't many.

To the point of the original poster, there are probably some valid reasons why the coho marine MSF is southern BC does need a hard look, as I don't think it is really achieving the objective that was originally envisioned 20+ years ago when it was implemented.I don't believe that the marine MSF is having a significant population-level impact on wild unmarked coho in Craigflower Creek or elsewhere. Likely other factors driving that trend.

Hmmmm, simply NOT true for all the community based hatcheries on the coast as they do not have access to the DFO marking trailers and rely on volunteers to clip their fish. Many times they simply do not have enough people to clip all the coho. COVID only made this situation worse.

 

[agentaqua]

Hmmmm, simply NOT true for all the community based hatcheries on the coast as they do not have access to the DFO marking trailers and rely on volunteers to clip their fish. Many times they simply do not have enough people to clip all the coho. COVID only made this situation worse.

WitW is correct most of the large hatcheries mark 100% post-COVID, but some of the smaller ones do not. For Chinook - the Puntledge hatchery has a mark target of 150K for 500K released (30%), & Thornton Creek 40/210K (20%) for example.

 

[SpringFever552]

Hmmmm, lots of inaccurate info on this thread.

Virtually all of the coho that are produced from hatcheries to support fisheries are adipose fin clipped in southern BC. There's an Autofish marking trailer operating at Quinsam hatchery this week marking all their coho smolts, Big Q marks all of theirs, Puntledge marks all of their smolts, Robertson Creek marks all of their smolts, Conuma marks all of their smolts, Nitinat marks all of their smolts, etc etc. Same in the Lower Mainland. A few smaller community-based hatcheries do not, although I believe most of them are now, especially those that release coho in any significant numbers (e.g. Oyster R, Fanny Bay, Alouette, etc).

The idea that a significant % of hatchery coho are swimming around unmarked in the ocean is a myth. The reason the mark rates are low is because there are just that many more wild coho out there. Yes, a small (<5%) fraction of hatchery releases may not be clipped for various reasons, but it isn't many.

To the point of the original poster, there are probably some valid reasons why the coho marine MSF is southern BC does need a hard look, as I don't think it is really achieving the objective that was originally envisioned 20+ years ago when it was implemented.I don't believe that the marine MSF is having a significant population-level impact on wild unmarked coho in Craigflower Creek or elsewhere. Likely other factors driving that trend.

Hatchery coho is not getting the returns then, when 90% of coho being caught at/near river mouths are "wild" unmarked fish

 

[wildmanyeah]

Hatchery coho is not getting the returns then, when 90% of coho being caught at/near river mouths are "wild" unmarked fish

They don't produce that many coho they have to raise them in ponds and feed them for a year,

50 thousand smolts released represents only a return of 500-1500 adults

roberts creek they said raised last year 205k

That’s will produce a return of like 2k to 6k

Natural recruitment is higher in many of the hatchery enhanced systems.

Coho are not like chinook or chum where they are raising millions and releasing them as fry or fed fry.

I know we run into a lot of cookie cutter coho schools out there were only a few are marked but I think this is a result of many factors like wild/hatchery breeding, the fact they school togeather so are exposed to the same environmental conditions ect..

 

[wildmanyeah]

Hatchery coho is not getting the returns then, when 90% of coho being caught at/near river mouths are "wild" unmarked fish

i think this generally speaks to the fact that having a hatchery only Coho fishery in these areas probably doesn't make much sense anymore.

the politics of changing it though DFO would probably prefer to avoid.

 

[agentaqua]

Many good comments/observations/posts on here.

I think one of the main differences in stock assistance & assessment is that coho is largely seen as a community engagement opportunity thru the SEPS program, and coho escapement assessment has large holes in it - except for a few easily-accessible creeks mostly near urban areas. So, there's really not been the same focus on coho as has been on Chinook, for example. Otta sight otta mind for some ...

 

[Derby]

Chinook are also the #1 fish that is sought after..

 

[Bryan Allen]

Chinook are also the #1 fish that is sought after..

True.. but us old graybeards just remember when that was not the case in the 70s and 8os. Phenomenal light tackle fishing for coho all along the inside waters. Butlers at CR, Cape Lazo at Comox, Tribune Bay on Hornby, French Creek, Nanaimo etc -- raked firecracker herring mooched on trout gear . Unfortunately the anglers that didnt start fishing until the late 90s have no idea what they missed. I am glad I was there, but sad where we are now today. ( and the steelhead crash was not even a possibility to us when we spent time on the flows. You know what I am talking about Deryk as you were there too. ) Damn sad--

 

[terrin]

True.. but us old graybeards just remember when that was not the case in the 70s and 8os. Phenomenal light tackle fishing for coho all along the inside waters. Butlers at CR, Cape Lazo at Comox, Tribune Bay on Hornby, French Creek, Nanaimo etc -- raked firecracker herring mooched on trout gear . Unfortunately the anglers that didnt start fishing until the late 90s have no idea what they missed. I am glad I was there, but sad where we are now today. ( and the steelhead crash was not even a possibility to us when we spent time on the flows. You know what I am talking about Deryk as you were there too. ) Damn sad--

Lasquiti on southern tip of Texada was the same, mooching for coho on light tackle was just a blast.

 

[SpringFever552]

True.. but us old graybeards just remember when that was not the case in the 70s and 8os. Phenomenal light tackle fishing for coho all along the inside waters. Butlers at CR, Cape Lazo at Comox, Tribune Bay on Hornby, French Creek, Nanaimo etc -- raked firecracker herring mooched on trout gear . Unfortunately the anglers that didnt start fishing until the late 90s have no idea what they missed. I am glad I was there, but sad where we are now today. ( and the steelhead crash was not even a possibility to us when we spent time on the flows. You know what I am talking about Deryk as you were there too. ) Damn sad--

Yup, raking bait at grants, motor mootching, in and out of gear at 8-10 pulls, watching the showering bait on the surface and your bait getting hammered by a coho going fullout

 

[John Ingram]

Yup, raking bait at grants, motor mootching, in and out of gear at 8-10 pulls, watching the showering bait on the surface and your bait getting hammered by a coho going fullout

Bucktailing in Cowichan Bay in the late 60's and early 70's ..... 11-12' glass rods, a small banana weight and a real Polar Bear bucktail
with real pearl spinners. out in the prop wash and watch the ho flying show.

 

[Derby]

True.. but us old graybeards just remember when that was not the case in the 70s and 8os. Phenomenal light tackle fishing for coho all along the inside waters. Butlers at CR, Cape Lazo at Comox, Tribune Bay on Hornby, French Creek, Nanaimo etc -- raked firecracker herring mooched on trout gear . Unfortunately the anglers that didnt start fishing until the late 90s have no idea what they missed. I am glad I was there, but sad where we are now today. ( and the steelhead crash was not even a possibility to us when we spent time on the flows. You know what I am talking about Deryk as you were there too. ) Damn sad--

I caught the tail end of that cohoe fun but did enjoy the Expo Cohoe fun forsure ... as for steelhead just one word for that "sad"