Columbians "Myth or Fact" & "POST"

[The Fish Assassin]

Kelly has good knowledge about the fish in JDF. The larger Columbians which go 30-60+ come through in June-July.

quote:They swim down the WCVI, in from the Pacific on the Canadian side of Juan de Fuca Strait then turn at the San Juan’s, crossing Hein Bank and exit the Washington State side for a run down to the Columbia River. Why? The Department of Fisheries and Oceans says it's anyone's guess,

Gees rocket scientists arn't they. The reason they follow that route back is because the can smell 1 part per billion. They follow that route (year after year) becasue thats where the current takes the water from their river. Jees every year they come to the same place.. DUHHH. So would you if you where trying to find your way home by smell.

I hope the fellas that caught those fish from the Englishman feel guilty. That is an endangered system.

Take only what you need.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

Kelly has good knowledge about the fish in JDF. The larger Columbians which go 30-60+ come through in June-July.

quote:They swim down the WCVI, in from the Pacific on the Canadian side of Juan de Fuca Strait then turn at the San Juan’s, crossing Hein Bank and exit the Washington State side for a run down to the Columbia River. Why? The Department of Fisheries and Oceans says it's anyone's guess,

Gees rocket scientists arn't they. The reason they follow that route back is because the can smell 1 part per billion. They follow that route (year after year) becasue thats where the current takes the water from their river. Jees every year they come to the same place.. DUHHH. So would you if you where trying to find your way home by smell.

I hope the fellas that caught those fish from the Englishman feel guilty. That is an endangered system.

Take only what you need.

FA... Thank You!
But, Chris and Kelly are trying to say... they DO NOT exist! I am with you!
I do believe they start showing the last of March, but agree if you are going to target them June and July are better!

And, I also agree "if it is an endangered species"... leave it alone!

 

[Charter Tofino]

Didnt say they dont exist. Orignally i argued that you cant just say its a columbian and i questioned you saying the run goes through jdf but then your arguement changed. I dont doubt some CR fish go through. I also questioned your post claiming to know every habit of theirs when most of the time you have no idea where the fish you just caught is from.

 

[Bighorn]

Hey guys

What about the coho from the Columbia? I sent in some heads from July 15/09 and one had a tag and it was from one of the Columbia estuary hatcheries. The fish were caught out of Sooke and they were thick that day.

 

[profisher]

I researched this topic years ago and all the recovered head tags at that time indicated there were no tags recovered from (MATURE) Columbia River Chinook inside of Owen Point. There were a small number of Columbia River Chinook tags recovered inside JDF but they were recovered from 2 and 3 year old stocks assumed to be heading north. Since fish have followed the same patterns since before we showed up, I wouldn't bet they have changed since I last researched this some 15 to 20 years ago. The early Chinook are early timed Fraser, by July we see more than a handful of Puget Sound bound stocks. All the tags I personally have recovered over the years back this up 100%. I didn't read all the posts on this topic so I hope I'm not repeating someone else entirely. Cause then I've just wasted my valuable time.

 

[Dirtdog67]

Until the commy fleet went into Sabine Channel, located on the N.E. side of Lasquiti Isl., in the seventies and early eightys, it was an unbelievable fishery for Columbians... I can remember fishing in early July and tubbin on 30 to 50 pound goldy footballs.. Man those days were precious.

Kelly, you may know of a spot where the remnance of that run may spend a week or two in early july just south of the spar boeuy in the gap there.. F*&k did we ever used to hammer them in there between the first and fifth of July.. d-dog

 

[profisher]

Charlie...hope I'm not asking what might have already been asked...do you know what percentage of all Columbia Stocks are of hatchery origin and what percentage of those are marked/tagged?

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

Charlie...hope I'm not asking what might have already been asked...do you know what percentage of all Columbia Stocks are of hatchery origin and what percentage of those are marked/tagged?

about 80% are hatchery. I am not sure about the percent tagged?

 

[Charter Tofino]

quote:Originally posted by Dirtdog67

Until the commy fleet went into Sabine Channel, located on the N.E. side of Lasquiti Isl., in the seventies and early eightys, it was an unbelievable fishery for Columbians... I can remember fishing in early July and tubbin on 30 to 50 pound goldy footballs.. Man those days were precious.

Kelly, you may know of a spot where the remnance of that run may spend a week or two in early july just south of the spar boeuy in the gap there.. F*&k did we ever used to hammer them in there between the first and fifth of July.. d-dog

That would have been a blast. Things sure have changed bouncing 180ft to pick up teeners. There was a run that came in that time a few years ago at sangster than was daily limits. I got to know the nooks and crannys of that spot your talking about on this side and hit alot of fish there this year. My first trip was around july 15th and i took a 32 lber out of it. Small reef comes up from 200 to 120 and i normally have bounce it to hit them.

 

[profisher]

The reason I asked was, with the high percentage of hatchery origin fish from that system..and the amount of time I fish every year in JDF you would think they would show up in the heads I turn in. I have never had a wire coded tag from the Columbia in over 40 years. I think I had one from the west coast of Washington (north of Columbia) all others have been either Fraser systems or Puget Sound. Again this seems to back up the information I obtained from DFO from their head recovery stats.

 

[Rum Buddies]

I think you are spot on profisher, not that I have been fishing as long as you but I don't know anybody who has caught these 30-60lb columbians that supposedly come through.

I thought they were proved to be early fraser fish a long time ago and your experience backs that up even more PF.

JDF columbians are a myth.... Has anybody ever seen real proof?

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Poppa Swiss

I think you are spot on profisher, not that I have been fishing as long as you but I don't know anybody who has caught these 30-60lb columbians that supposedly come through.

I thought they were proved to be early fraser fish a long time ago and your experience backs that up even more PF.

JDF columbians are a myth.... Has anybody ever seen real proof?

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!

Well I think the following might be a little bit of proof. I didn't realize they went that far up into Georgia?

quote:Originally posted by Dirtdog67

Until the commy fleet went into Sabine Channel, located on the N.E. side of Lasquiti Isl., in the seventies and early eightys, it was an unbelievable fishery for Columbians... I can remember fishing in early July and tubbin on 30 to 50 pound goldy footballs.. Man those days were precious.

Kelly, you may know of a spot where the remnance of that run may spend a week or two in early july just south of the spar boeuy in the gap there.. F*&k did we ever used to hammer them in there between the first and fifth of July.. d-dog

Over the years I have caught Columbians from Wya Point in as far as Pillar Point on the WA side. Hatchery, tagged, and confirmed, but, also admit that was a few years back! That's when I first realized a spring, right "off the rocks", south of Wya, just might be U.S. bound? They also prefer a very slow cutplug - lazy Yanks!

I also believe if DFO doesn't get their head out of their arse real quick, before long the only thing you will be catching are those Yankee "myths"?

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie

quote:Originally posted by Poppa Swiss

I think you are spot on profisher, not that I have been fishing as long as you but I don't know anybody who has caught these 30-60lb columbians that supposedly come through.

I thought they were proved to be early fraser fish a long time ago and your experience backs that up even more PF.

JDF columbians are a myth.... Has anybody ever seen real proof?

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!

Well I think the following might be a little bit of proof. I didn't realize they went that far up into Georgia?

quote:Originally posted by Dirtdog67

Until the commy fleet went into Sabine Channel, located on the N.E. side of Lasquiti Isl., in the seventies and early eightys, it was an unbelievable fishery for Columbians... I can remember fishing in early July and tubbin on 30 to 50 pound goldy footballs.. Man those days were precious.

Kelly, you may know of a spot where the remnance of that run may spend a week or two in early july just south of the spar boeuy in the gap there.. F*&k did we ever used to hammer them in there between the first and fifth of July.. d-dog

Over the years I have caught Columbians from Wya Point in as far as Pillar Point on the WA side. Hatchery, tagged, and confirmed, but, also admit that was a few years back! That's when I first realized a spring, right "off the rocks", south of Wya, just might be U.S. bound? They also prefer a very slow cutplug - lazy Yanks!

I also believe if DFO doesn't get their head out of their arse real quick, before long the only thing you will be catching are those Yankee "myths"?

Charlie, I am starting to look upon some of your posts with disdain, and I'm sure I don't speak entirely for myself.

Many of your posts, while informative, have a certain way of pushing peoples buttons. Not saying I haven't been guilty of the same things, but myself, like many other forum members have changed our ways.

Just my .02!

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by fishin_magician

"disdain", I don't find anything in that last post that would fall into the use of that word? Pretty strong word, coming from you? I am okay with, and guess you should just quit reading my posts? [?]

Oh, here is an area the the use of "disdain" should be used... as in:

quote:There was a clear message from some participants that Ottawa has lost interest in wild salmon, that they think their only value comes from commercial revenues. Since this is shrinking Ottawa is abandoning wild salmon.

quote: Is this Canadian industry being suppressed by our provincial government because it makes the massive Norwegian net pen industry irrelevant? I realized I am not trying to protect wild salmon from aquaculture, I am trying to protect our coast from three Norwegian companies called Marine Harvest, Grieg and Cermaq (Mainstream).

 

[profisher]

I'm willing to accept the fish tale about easy limits of springs to 50 lbs up in Georgia Strait in the 70"s. How were they proven to be Columbia origin? I hope it wasn't because they looked like a NFL football.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

I'm willing to accept the fish tale about easy limits of springs to 50 lbs up in Georgia Strait in the 70"s. How were they proven to be Columbia origin? I hope it wasn't because they looked like a NFL football.

If someone wants to contact: Doug Herriot Fisheries Analyst, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, they do keep records and he could provide the information?

 

[Island Fish Lifter]

Ive always called the short, fat early westcoast run to be columbians. I have no proof of this, its just what we've always called them.. weather they're actually columbia river fish or not makes no difference to me.

Fill the dam tub!

 

[profisher]

This email was sent to me today from Chris73 and basically is the same data I received from DFO in the early 90's. Here it is;

I have talked to people from DFO before and asked about this myth of "Columbians" in the JDF and they found no data to support that there is any Columbia chinook run through the JDF - especially not early in the year.


here an excerpt from Bill Shaw of DFO to me:
"... I have attached one report containing genetic analyses of Juan de Fuca sport fishery catches of Chinook salmon during April, May, and June of 2000. If you are interested, there may be more years of genetic information available from the PBS genetics lab. In Appendix 6 on p. 56, Columbia Chinook salmon represented 0% of fish in April, 3% in May, and 2% in June, whereas Fraser Chinook represented 14% in April, 28% in May, and 84% in June. The sample sizes were less than what we would like, but this was what the creel survey staff were able to collect.

There are some Columbia Chinook salmon that enter Juan de Fuca, but it appears to be an extremely minor component of the total number available (<<1%). From coded wire tag recoveries of Columbia Chinook salmon between 1999 and 2006, we see that Juan de Fuca and Strait of Georgia sport fisheries accounted for an average of 0% Willamette Spring Hatchery Chinook, 0.2% of Columbia Summer Chinook, 0.2% of Cowilitz Tule Chinook, 0.1% of Spring Creek Tule Chinook, 0.5% of Columbia Lower River Hatchery Chinook, 0.1% of Upriver Bright Chinook, 0% of Hanford Wild Chinook, 0% of Lyons Ferry Chinook, and 0.3% of Lewis River Wild Chinook. Detailed estimates of stock mortality distribution among fisheries are found in Appendix E of the report at this link: http://www.psc.org/pubs/TCCHINOOK08-2.pdf ..."


Send me your email address, Rollie, and I will send you the mentioned document in pdf and an excel table that lays it out.

 

[Charlie]

Does anyone know what 3% in May, and 2% in June represents in numbers in both Juan de Fuca "and" Georgia? That could be an enormous amount of fish? And then the “The sample sizes were less than what we would like, but this was what the creel survey staff were able to collect“. What in the world does that mean, is the information valid or not? I think we know that answer? This also kind of confirms my earlier "month of May" comment, doesn't it?

And, then, “There are some Columbia Chinook salmon that enter Juan de Fuca, but it appears to be an extremely minor component of the total number available (<<1%). From coded wire tag recoveries of Columbia Chinook salmon between 1999 and 2006, we see that Juan de Fuca and Strait of Georgia sport fisheries accounted for an average of 0% Willamette Spring Hatchery Chinook, 0.2% of Columbia Summer Chinook, 0.2% of Cowilitz Tule Chinook, 0.1% of Spring Creek Tule Chinook, 0.5% of Columbia Lower River Hatchery Chinook, 0.1% of Upriver Bright Chinook, 0% of Hanford Wild Chinook, 0% of Lyons Ferry Chinook, and 0.3% of Lewis River Wild Chinook. Detailed estimates of stock mortality distribution among fisheries are found in Appendix E of the report at this link: http://www.psc.org/pubs/TCCHINOOK08-2.pdf ...” So, do you have a clue, to what <<1% is in numbers caught? I don’t? Or, did you add up those percentages? The individual numbers equate to 1.4 %?? But, their total is <<1%? But even then, how many fish does that represent? At 25,000,000 that represents 350,000+ fish going through the Strait? And that number is only one that I pulled out of my arse! Plus, you are looking at the whole Strait of Georgia? Hmmm... I could quit right here? [:0]

Now, if you did actually read, Appendix E @ http://www.psc.org/pubs/TCCHINOOK08-2.pdf you would find that “Appendix E. goes through E.78, and they deal with “Chinook reported catch and escapement.”? I just read them and have to ask… what the “2008 ANNUAL REPORT OF CATCHES AND ESCAPEMENTS, EXPLOITATION RATE ANALYSIS AND MODEL CALIBRATION”… really has to do with any of “us” catching a “Columbian” in the “Strait of Juan de Fuca? Other than the fact, it proves they do migrate through there. Then I have to again go back and ask? What is <<1% or 1.4% in numbers? I think that might be a whole lot of Springs? Guess I could quit here, too!

But, may I ask when you come up against something like that… do you stop and say whoa, “what are they really saying”, or “do you just keep reading?” I myself stop, look not only at the question, but start looking for the answers? I suggest you look closely starting around tables 2.1 and everything thereafter? Or, did I, or am I missing something there? Probably should stop as I don't want anyone to use the word "disdain" but what the heck!

Finally, I do admit “I” don’t ever remember catching “Columbian” off Sooke (caught a lot of Fraser and some that I "believe" were PS), why no Columbians there - I don’t know… maybe they just don’t like that area? But as I have already stated, “I have caught “Columbians” close to shore, all the way from Wya down to “Pillar”, heads turned in, confirmed.

After reading this articles I really fail it addressing the question as to “Columbians” in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, other than the fact they do confirm “Columbians” migrate through both the Straits of Juan de Fuca and Georgia.

I really do suggest someone contact: Doug Herriot Fisheries Analyst, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, as I believe this would be his area of expertise!

And, at this point I guess I should say I am done! Over the years, I have caught 30+ springs off the rocks starting on the WCVI and in several places; including, Wya, Eagles Nest, Cree, and several, as far in as Pillar Point (and the later would very much be in the Strait… heads turned in, and confirmed - “Columbians”.

Sheesh, I hope no one uses ""disdain", again? It might hurt my feelings! [:I]

Oh... forgot! If you want to see the Columbia and Thompson River Chinook out migration it is on the following POST website. Look for downloads and then click on animation. It might surprise you? They migrate inside the shelf, close to shore, and do NOT make a big circle out into the Pacific!
http://www.postcoml.org/page.php?section=community&page=Tracking_salmon_from_Rockies_to_Alaska

 

[rico100]

Good post Charlie.