Boat Size

[daddystoy]

C'mon Charlie, lets be honest ( and realistic). Not everybody can afford a boat with twin engines or WANTS a boat with twin engines. You see plenty of single engine boats offshore of Bamfield etc. Obviously you pick your days carefully with a smaller boat. Hell I was 7 miles out off of Bamfield last year in my 1975 18.5 ' Double Eagle with its trusty 302 Ford engine. Of course a well maintained boat and engine are critical as well as all the safety gear. So in answer to the question I would say minimum size would be 18'.
And yes, it is founder, not flounder like the fish in "The Little Mermaid"

 

[trophywife]

schlivo and his ol man rock a 17 arima, always with other boats tho..or atleast in position and radio contact close by. size isn't always the factor, the way its built yes, if you have brains out there, and can fish with other offshore buddies!!

 

[Rum Buddies]

Oh man Charlie you are really losing it aren't you. Here are your words you posted

They range from 20 feet and up, are deep veed, and they have a significant dead rise of 20 degrees or more. That dead rise gives them the ability to cut into a wave rather than pounding on top of it. And, because they cut into a wave, their bow needs to be big and deep. If it is planned to be used on WCVI offshore – it should have twins. Face it; 25-30 miles off the beach is no place to break down and have no power to get home

Here is the text on http://saltfishing.about.com/od/boatsandequipment/a/aa071012a.htm
\

They range from 20 feet and up, and they have a significant dead rise, often over 20 degrees. That dead rise gives them the ability to cut into a wave rather than pounding on top of it. And, because they cut into a wave, their bow needs to be, and is, big and deep.

Offshore boats are powered by one or more engines, with the larger ones always having at least two engines. Face it; thirty miles or more out into the Atlantic or Gulf is no place to break down and have no power to get home.

hmm sure seems like you lifted your post from another website, made a couple of minor edits and claimed it as your own.

Then you go into a spiel about bay boats:

There are a lot of Center Consoles, Walkarounds, Runabouts, Bow Riders, Cruisers, Deck Boats running around that look like offshore boats; but they are in fact - “Bay Boats.” . These bay boats are now coming out in lengths over 24 feet. They are NOT true offshore! No true offshore boat can be used inshore very easily, and no true inshore boat can be used offshore. So, for most, here comes the answer – a modified "bay boat". Trying to be the best of both worlds it is has a shallow enough draft to fish inshore, yet has a larger deadrise and somewhat bigger bow that lets it get offshore. Sooner-or-later, that design will get one running offshore in trouble. Best bet, just ask the manufacturer if you should take that bay boat very far offshore and you are liable to get a big “no!” They simply are not designed for it!

So I asked(sarcastically) what type of modified bay boat should I get, you suggest this modified bay boat not me. The inshore fishing that the article is talking about is like 1-3' of water not "inshore" like alberni inlet like we talk about it.

The point is Charlie, nobody cares if you post info from other sources in fact many appreciate it. But when you start playing it off as you own content then it becomes plagiarism and quite sad indeed.

Also Charlie my point about 22 vs 25' foot boats is, if its really too rough for a 22' you probably don't want to be out in a 25' either - its rough! Yes its will be more comfortable but it won't fun - get it?

I'm done with it - I feel like I just trolled myself. yuck

 

[searun]

I have to concur with Charlie, he is providing 100% sound advice. Check his posts - all are well researched and thoughtful, so I would pay close attention to his posts.

The real question is what type of fishing do I plan on doing and is the boat I'm buying going to match the application? I for one would not want to be offshore without a 24 foot boat at a minimum. And for anyone who thinks its no big deal to be out 25 miles in a small boat because the weather looks good - then you have really been lucky - fish a little more off shore and you will eventually get caught. Experience will teach you just how fast the weather can come up, and just how small even a 24 foot vessel can be.

My number one factor for choosing a vessel is the application I will be using it for. I have a Grady 265 for a reason...and some days even that doesn't seem big enough. Size matters.

 

[-steelhead-]

But the trick is having enough boat to get offshore in good weather and escape the bad weather in a crisis, yet bomb around the sound or the straight without the hassle of extra gas expenses, launch hassles, marina costs, higher mechanical costs, insurance costs, additional purchase cost, towing etc. of a larger boat. The OP's application as he said is ECVI with offshore capabilities. My vote is for the nicer 22ft'r, better on gas, easier to tow, much easier to single hand. We can't all afford 26ft Grady's with twins!

 

[nedarb2]

But the trick is having enough boat to get offshore in good weather and escape the bad weather in a crisis, yet bomb around the sound or the straight without the hassle of extra gas expenses, launch hassles, marina costs, higher mechanical costs, insurance costs, additional purchase cost, towing etc. of a larger boat. The OP's application as he said is ECVI with offshore capabilities. My vote is for the nicer 22ft'r, better on gas, easier to tow, much easier to single hand. We can't all afford 26ft Grady's with twins!

i agree in the sense that yes, a 22ft RELIABLE boat is enough to get out offshore for most of the days of the year. But thats just it, most days. And the day trouble will come is when your offshore when one of these bad days roll in.
Is it nicer and safer to have a bigger boat? Yea! but people do road trips in little civics too when really suv's and f350's are a much safer ideal vehicles for driving cross country.
That said though, extra precautions like having a buddy boat and extra safety gear are just that much more important the smaller you get.
Aswell, i think the point that some guys have been trying to get across is, if your going to be offshore frequently, just like if your going to be driving across the country often, a smaller boat is NOT what you should be using for your own safety, and if you can not afford or own a big boat designed to handle weather that smaller boats are not made to be facing regularly, dont do it.

 

[searun]

But the trick is having enough boat to get offshore in good weather and escape the bad weather in a crisis, yet bomb around the sound or the straight without the hassle of extra gas expenses, launch hassles, marina costs, higher mechanical costs, insurance costs, additional purchase cost, towing etc. of a larger boat. The OP's application as he said is ECVI with offshore capabilities. My vote is for the nicer 22ft'r, better on gas, easier to tow, much easier to single hand. We can't all afford 26ft Grady's with twins!

And my point was don't run 25 miles off shore with a small boat - you can't out run bad weather if it changes up quickly....and if you seriously think you can, then I would say keep at it and eventually you will know what I mean. Hopefully you get lucky. Don't take my word on it, ask a few other guys on the forum who actually work off shore.

 

[-steelhead-]

Hi guys, new member on this forum, but i have been a long time lurker. Anyways im just looking for some input on boat size as i am in the market for a new center console. I am torn between either a newer model ( 2000 - 2004, 20' - 22') , or something a bit older a bit older ( 1996 - 2000 , 23' - 25' ). This boat would be used around Howe Sound/Gulf Islands for the majority of the year, with a few Bamfield trips each season. Would a 20' - 22' even be capable of running offshore out of Bamfield?
Thanks in advance,
Adanac.

Sounds like the guy does the same kind of boating i do! I went from a 24ft to a 22ft to save gas and the ease of use. I don't spend a lot of time offshore Bamfield, but when I do its with some friends on other boats. Like I said. Play it safe, and you'll be fine. Do something stupid and your dead. and when the 'majority' of your boating is on the ECVI, a 22ft is perfect. If I was going to guide out on WCVI and heading offshore 25miles everyday, guaranteed I would be riding in a 26ft grady!! Like you said, its all about the guys application.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

We run a 21' K&C Thermoglass single engine inboard w/kicker, great boat, light but still solid, we use it offshore (and by offshore I mean the beach - 12 miles or less). When out there you have to pay attention to the weather, know what is forcasted to be coming inshore and know how to read it when you are out there, understand it and predict it to a certain point based on the forcast and what it is doing at the moment. When you see the precursors to the change in pattern, move out don't screw around. If the boat that you are in can only push along at 15-20 miles per hour in rougher water, and the weather system is blowing in at 20-25 knts, it will be on top of you faster than you can outrun it, not a good situation if you are in a boat that is on the smaller side (less than 30'). Even a 30' boat doesn't "feel" all that big when you have a 2 meter swell with a 2 meter wind wave that is breaking on top of it, that is still enough to make even the seasoned guys knuckles turn a bit white for a while. PICK YOUR WEATHER, if it is touchy, don't go out there.

Of course on our boat we have full nav equip (charts, chartplotter, 2 GPS, radar, radio, compass, EPIRB) this equipment should be absolutely mandatory on any boat going offshore.

You definately want to weigh out intended use, convenience, initial cost, operating/maintenance costs, and all of the opinions you get here, and then get "permission" (if that is a factor).

As said previously: The bigger the better, but bigger is not always better.

Note: I have been out there 7 miles and had 14' Lunds pull up along side before, and remember thinking that there would be no way in hell that you would catch me doing that - ever! I guess that to some degree it is a matter of perspective and ones perception of the gravity of their situation. One man's insanity is another man's normalcy??

 

[Charter Tofino]

Poppa thats classic! Especially with his childish response.


As for boat size.I can remember a number of times i was fishing 7 mile scraping up fish on a flat day in my 18fter getting texts of how hot 14 mile and the flatops are. Even being young and stupid i know better than to push it. Had it blow up hard on us one day at 7mile unforcasted and it made me realize i would not want to be out on bigbank when it blows up in a small rig! As said if your a regular offshore twins at 24ft+ seem the way to go. If you dont do it often and want to push it i still wouldnt want less than 22ft with reliable power. ECVI you can fish in a 17fter 9 days out of 10.

 

[scott craven]

A few years back one calm,warm August afternoon we saw a guy fly casting for Coho on Swiftsure bank in a 14' tinny.
He was having a great old time, and not a care in the world.
That surprised the $hit out of me

Maybe it comes down to how big your cojones are

 

[Kristo]

size

Centre Console ride vs a boat with some protection from the elements.....every boat is a compromise.
Saw a guy fishing over by Bowen last saturday in a centre cockpit.... looked a little chilly
I appreciate having some protection from the weather...........could have something to do with my age.
On cold, miserable days I wish my 24 Pursuit w/a had a slightly larger cabin and a bus heater.
2 footitis appears to be a common ailment with boaters.

 

[Pippen]

A few years back one calm,warm August afternoon we saw a guy fly casting for Coho on Swiftsure bank in a 14' tinny.
He was having a great old time, and not a care in the world.
That surprised the $hit out of me

Maybe it comes down to how big your cojones are :confused:

Hahahaha.

 

[Lucky Tiger]

It took me years to get used to wcvi offshore fishing. Big is not always better..experience is better, two engines, two forms of communication, two forms of navigation, two fuel supplies, survival suits, and never go out alone.. unless the fishing is good!

 

[Charlie]

So I asked(sarcastically) what type of modifiedbay boat should I get, you suggest this modified bay boat not me. The inshorefishing that the article is talking about is like 1-3' of water not"inshore" like alberni inlet like we talk about it.

The point is Charlie, nobody cares if you post info fromother sources in fact many appreciate it. But when you start playing it off asyou own content then it becomes plagiarism and quite sad indeed.

Also Charlie my point about 22 vs 25' foot boats is, ifits really too rough for a 22' you probably don't want to be out in a 25'either - its rough! Yes its will be more comfortable but it won't fun - get it?

I'm done with it - I feel like I just trolled myself. Yuck

You know, I wasn't even going to reply to that, but the more I have thought about it, I guess I am!

So, WOW… KEVIN,“plagiarize” – that word “plagiarize” is coming from YOU! You my friend don’t have a clue how much or how many times my work gets and has been spread around different websites and even gets published under different individual's names! Maybe I should give you and clarify a couple of definitions? This is my one and only post concerning this and it is just for YOU! Don't even bother responding!

verb \ˈplā-jə-ˌrīz also -jē-ə-\
pla·gia·rizedpla·gia·riz·ing]
Definition of PLAGIARIZE

transitive verb
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
: use (another's production) without crediting the source

intransitive verb
: to commit literary theft
: present as newand original an idea or product derived from an existing source

— pla·gia·riz·ernoun
See plagiarize defined for English-language learners »

Examples of PLAGIARIZE
1.He plagiarized a classmate's report.
2.She plagiarized from an article she read on the Internet.

Origin of PLAGIARIZE
plagiary
First Known Use: 1716
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plagiarize

Plagiarism Law & Legal Definition
Plagiarism is taking the writings or literary ideas of another and selling and/or publishing them as one's own writing. Brief quotes or use of cited sources do not constitute plagiarism. The original author can bring a lawsuit for appropriation of his/her work against the plagiarist and recover the profits. Although not normally a crime, a person who plagiarizes is subject to being sued for fraud or copyright infringement if prior creation can be proved. Penalties vary depending on jurisdiction, the charges brought, and are determined on a case by case basis.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plagiarism/

Nope, “Brief quotes or use of cited sources do not constitute plagiarism.” I am assuming, you are not in either high school or college? Now, I am personally not worried about any “plagiarism” comments, especially when those comments are coming from YOU!

Now, did YOU pick up on the other term mentioned? The one YOU just might want to start thinking of and just might also need to keep in mind? Here it is… “Copyright Infringement”

I can certainly give YOU and everyone else a prime example of "copyright infringement"! Let me see, if I remember this right? An article called “The Double Whammy,” written entirely by one individual. That author was contacted by you (Kevin), for permission to have the article re-published. You (Kevin) advised proper credit would be given to the original author. The original author gave written authorization, and also stipulated the article was to be checked for glamour and spelling, prior to re-publishing. Then oops - article is re-published, with NO credit given to the original author? No glamour or spell check completed… and ready for this… SOLELY with YOU (KEVIN) NAMED, and YOUR BUSINESS? Hmm... "Plagiarism" - Not only plagiarism, it is also copyright infringement!

With that, I again am not personally worried about what you do or don't think; or what you believe is or isn't plagiarized! If you want, YOU can keep thinking whatever you wish; however, along with your thoughts, think about YOUR "Copyright Infringement(s)"? Yep, you bet IMHO YOU are quilty as charged! That article was "commercially" published precisely as originally written by another, without YOU giving any proper credit.

So, please GET OFF that SOAPBOX and save your “plagiarism” speech for someone else! And, yep, I totally agree… you just trolled yourself!

BTW… Since I just happen to be that original author, did you or your business receive any sort of commercial gains (e.g. free advertising, etc), or any types of compensation resulting from you publishing “MY” article, under YOUR NAME? If so, you know that might equate to monies… due ME?

Also, since you suddenly like to see credit, where credit is do - you might find these links of interest

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#501
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506

Now how about back to the topic and try to actually help people, rather than just setting there and "trolling"!

BTW... your modified bay boat question for an example... you can start with looking at your boat! Unless, yours is an "offshore" boat such as mine... yours will be a modified "BAY BOAT"! There is also another running around called "Trophy." There also just might be a reason "Bayliner" was given that name! You might also take a closer look at the design of that "Double Eagle"!

 

[pescador]

Interesting reading guys, but, I think Adanac, with 2 posts, really only wants to know about boat size.

 

[-steelhead-]

Interesting reading guys, but, I think Adanac, with 2 posts, really only wants to know about boat size.

LMAO! True enough... although I did learn a few things about plagiarism.

 

[searun]

Charlie, I love your style. I owe you a beer. Drop me a line next time you are up in Bamfield. I hope we can all just take the info offered for what it is...we all have opinions and a perspective to offer the conversation. We certainly don't agree 100% of the time, but you have to respect a guy who backs up his opinion with logic or research.

 

[seadog19]

to charlie,

I guess I should have added, As a mariner, I understand westcoast weather very well, and I do not take chances, for the joy of a catching a lunker. As in the charlottes fishing, a squall can show up at any timeand you want to be in a decent boat built for the area, not a 14ft Lund as we have seen offshore.
If yur 10 miles out and wind comes up, its 20 miles back. The boat u quoted with the missing, was a guided boat from a lodge, and they went out with gale warnings up. I was down the coast from them and and my group heeded the 4cast and stayed inside.

 

[Mike_R]

As others have mentioned, the length of the boat is only one factor of many that needs to be considered when deciding whether to go "off shore".

Other factors include; skill and experience of the operator, safety and navigation equipment, fuel capacity, freeboard, stability and sea keeping characteristics, amount of fuel, weather conditions and forecasts, condition of vessel and it's machinery and equipment, condition of operator and passengers, etc., etc.

And of course, your definition of the meaning of the words "off shore" is also to be considered.

I also feel people tend to forget that there are many, if not more, hazards close to shore.