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'Warm blob' of water in Pacific Ocean could hurt salmon
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http://e360.yale.edu/feature/a_little_fish_with_big_impact_in_trouble_on_us_west_coast/2887/
A Little Fish with Big Impact
In Trouble on U.S. West Coast
A Little Fish with Big Impact
In Trouble on U.S. West Coast
http://inhabitat.com/freaky-sea-slugs-wash-up-on-california-beaches-as-water-temperatures-rise/
Thousands of freaky sea slugs wash up on California beaches as water temperatures rise
by Katie Medlock, 06/22/15
Photo Credit: Michael Coleman via Flickr
Residents of San Francisco are panicking as objects that appear to be human organs wash up on the seashore. Luckily, there has been no foul play - the visceral objects are actually swarms of beached sea slugs. The creatures are called sea hares and they are usually hidden residents of the surrounding ocean, but the region's recent spate of warm weather is believed to have stranded thousands of the creatures on the sand.
Thousands of freaky sea slugs wash up on California beaches as water temperatures rise
by Katie Medlock, 06/22/15
Photo Credit: Michael Coleman via Flickr
Residents of San Francisco are panicking as objects that appear to be human organs wash up on the seashore. Luckily, there has been no foul play - the visceral objects are actually swarms of beached sea slugs. The creatures are called sea hares and they are usually hidden residents of the surrounding ocean, but the region's recent spate of warm weather is believed to have stranded thousands of the creatures on the sand.
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
William M. "Bill" Gray is Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU), and head of the Tropical Meteorology Project at CSU's Department of Atmospheric Sciences.
He has now stated that this years El Niño is the largest since 1998.
He has now stated that this years El Niño is the largest since 1998.
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GLG
Well-Known Member
So Bill Gray is predicting "this years El Niño is the largest since 1998" and the year is not even half over. He could be right this time not like his last prediction from 2006......
That big red spike was 1998 ... now 2015.... regardless of the cause I think we can both agree that it can't be good for our salmon. The question is what can we do about it? Got any ideas OBD?
That big red spike was 1998 ... now 2015.... regardless of the cause I think we can both agree that it can't be good for our salmon. The question is what can we do about it? Got any ideas OBD?
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
El Niño , is a natural effect on earth.
You cannot do anything about it.
It was here before you were and will be when you are gone.
Salmon have survived it before and will again.
You cannot do anything about it.
It was here before you were and will be when you are gone.
Salmon have survived it before and will again.
So Bill Gray is predicting "this years El Niño is the largest since 1998" and the year is not even half over. He could be right this time not like his last prediction from 2006......
That big red spike was 1998 ... now 2015.... regardless of the cause I think we can both agree that it can't be good for our salmon. The question is what can we do about it? Got any ideas OBD?
GLG
Well-Known Member
Are we even being effected by El Niño yet? My understands is that, that will happen later in the year. I was referring to the higher temps of the "blob" and perhaps the drought that is happening right now. Any idea of what we/you can do to help the salmon now and for the next few months? I'm not one to sit by and cross my fingers and hope for the best. I think we need to look at mitigating the effects of this high temp now.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
BUT now they have to deal with human caused urban habitat destruction, poor ocean survival, overfishing, pollution, agricultural, industrial and domestic water extraction, gravel extraction of spawning beds, acid mine drainage, pollution and disease from salmon net pen feed lots, logging that causes siltation and removal of forest cover that increases water temperature, dams for irrigation and power generation... the list goes on. Fish didn't have to worry about these 100 years ago, or even much 50 years ago - but do now.
The cumulative impacts of all these negative impacts plus that of increased sea temperatures, less native plankton and bait fish and more/different predators from southern waters added to the recent dry, hot weather that has reduced water levels and increased stream temperatures could start to really hammer salmon. IMO we need to start thinking more about all of the cumulative impacts that are effecting salmon if we want them around for future generations.
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
You you do understand that fish have no rights to water?
Man decided that as the top predator.
Man decided that as the top predator.
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Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Well if we want to have lots of healthy fish for the future we are going to have to share the water, included the oceans.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
In case you forgot or did not notice.
1998 Canada.
Note the Salmon are still here.
1998 Canada.
- A Year-Long Heat Wave - 1998. Canada experienced its second warmest winter and warmest spring, summer and fall on record. Temperatures in 1998 were an average of 2.4 degrees warmer than normal and likely the warmest year this century.
- Costliest Forest Fire Season on Record - 1998. Flames from forest fires destroyed 4.6 million hectares of forests, about 50% more than the normal amount. The 10,560 fires were the greatest number in 10 years.
Note the Salmon are still here.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
You missed the point. It is about accumulative impacts of a multitude of factors not isolated or one time events.
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
We are are talking about 1998, 17 years ago.
Most of those impacts were there then.
Most of those impacts were there then.
You missed the point. It is about accumulative impacts of a multitude of factors not isolated or one time events.
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Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Again you missed the point. Have salmon populations in the last 17 years on average increased, stayed the same or decreased? They have decreased on average and that is the continuing and scientifically forecasted trend. If you doubt this then you need to study the use of statistical forecasting methods and their levels of validity. Salmon populations are, with a few notable exceptions as always the case in nature, decreasing and will continue to do so unless most of the negative impacts or reduced or eliminated. Not very hard to understand. We face increasing amount of rec fishing restrictions over time as salmon populations are decreasing over time not the other way around.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Scientifically forcasted?
Note attached.
[h=1]Fraser sockeye run hits 100-year high[/h]
Sockeye are returning to the Fraser River in huge numbers. ((CBC))
The number of sockeye salmon returning to the Fraser River are expected to hit levels not seen in nearly 100 years, the Pacific Salmon Commission says.
It's estimated that the Fraser sockeye return will be more than 25 million fish, the largest return since 1913, the commission said in a news release Tuesday.
The near record numbers come after very low sockeye returns in recent years, especially in 2009 when fewer than 1.5 million of the fish returned after 11 million had been forecast.
[h=3]A mysterious species[/h]The lack of fish prompted speculation about the possible permanent disappearance of the highly prized sockeye and served as a reminder of how little is known about the species.
There is no way to monitor the salmon in the middle of their life cycle when they're out in the ocean, which is when the survival rates are established, said Carl Walters, a professor at UBC's Fisheries Centre.
"We don't understand the mechanisms at all," said Walters. "We think there's some complicated kind of delayed ecological interaction effects that a big run can cause poor survival down the road and maybe low runs can cause good survival down the road."
The 2009 return was so disturbing that the federal government created a public inquiry to determine what happened. The Cohen Commission began its hearing in Vancouver June.
Note attached.
[h=1]Fraser sockeye run hits 100-year high[/h]
The number of sockeye salmon returning to the Fraser River are expected to hit levels not seen in nearly 100 years, the Pacific Salmon Commission says.
It's estimated that the Fraser sockeye return will be more than 25 million fish, the largest return since 1913, the commission said in a news release Tuesday.
The near record numbers come after very low sockeye returns in recent years, especially in 2009 when fewer than 1.5 million of the fish returned after 11 million had been forecast.
[h=3]A mysterious species[/h]The lack of fish prompted speculation about the possible permanent disappearance of the highly prized sockeye and served as a reminder of how little is known about the species.
There is no way to monitor the salmon in the middle of their life cycle when they're out in the ocean, which is when the survival rates are established, said Carl Walters, a professor at UBC's Fisheries Centre.
"We don't understand the mechanisms at all," said Walters. "We think there's some complicated kind of delayed ecological interaction effects that a big run can cause poor survival down the road and maybe low runs can cause good survival down the road."
The 2009 return was so disturbing that the federal government created a public inquiry to determine what happened. The Cohen Commission began its hearing in Vancouver June.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
yet again you miss the point - not going to waste my time on this anymore
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
If your point is the rec. sector is getting less it may be because the other sectors are getting more?
Salmon have gone up and down for years and as noted projections are not reliable as Carl Walters noted.
So what would you like to do?
As you noted China and India have advised all they are not cutting back on coal produced hydro.
In fact,they will product more C02 in the future then all the other countries combined.
So, you had better hope that C02 really does not effect the planet, because it is not going to go down due to these countries.
By the way the forest fires we are having are adding a ton of C02 .
Salmon have gone up and down for years and as noted projections are not reliable as Carl Walters noted.
So what would you like to do?
As you noted China and India have advised all they are not cutting back on coal produced hydro.
In fact,they will product more C02 in the future then all the other countries combined.
So, you had better hope that C02 really does not effect the planet, because it is not going to go down due to these countries.
By the way the forest fires we are having are adding a ton of C02 .
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GLG
Well-Known Member
Have you considered the state of our Coho stocks? Back in 1998 restrictions were put into place to protect IFR stocks. All sectors closed to protect them but they have not come back to the pre 1998 levels. We know that it's the ocean survival that is effecting them. Your science don't know nuffin answer is perplexing.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/publications/resdocs-docrech/2014/2014_086-eng.pdf
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/SAR-AS/2015/2015_022-eng.pdf
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Note, the science was from Carl Walters.
Monitoring of stocks in the ocean is the problem.
DFO does not have the money or staff,to do this.
The Salmon river came back to historical highs.
Lots of money will solve it, but that will not happen.
http://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/resources/salmon/speakingforsalmon.htm
Monitoring of stocks in the ocean is the problem.
DFO does not have the money or staff,to do this.
The Salmon river came back to historical highs.
Lots of money will solve it, but that will not happen.
http://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/resources/salmon/speakingforsalmon.htm
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