The Official No Fishing Vent Thread

The entire tone of this post is why there is such antipathy towards recreational fishers:

“bonking wild Fraser bound south thompson chinook”

“wack some of the stocks I cant fish for now.”

“just going to hammer spots harder when she’s open”

It conveys the idea that no matter the conservation challenge posed by declining fish stocks, the recreational fisher is oblivious because it’s all about wacking and hammering those left to fill the tub.


You’re not helping.

Here is my issue with all this, Jason with pacific angler sums it up. My choice of words was out of frustration with the situation because the management measures make little sense. You seem to think this is about conservation well it is for some areas and times but some areas are just getting screwed for no reason.

"If there is a conservation concern, I will be the first to put the rods away, and if anyone has a right to the first harvest of those fish, I agree it should be First Nations for ceremonial and food fish purposes. I get that if we are fishing for the same fish.What I don't agree with and what I don't get, is the DFO shutting down one distinct fishery and user group so they can shut down another user group on totally different fish. "

Pacific Angler Report (Copied)
Vancouver Saltwater Salmon Fishing Report

Well it’s official. The DFO and Fisheries Minister have made it non-retention for chinook salmon on the south coast. They just shut down some of the best fishing I have ever seen in our local waters and what is very likely the best fishing on the entire coast right now. That’s just our area. Let’s not forget about the iconic sport fishing communities on the Island like Tofino, Ucluelet, Bamfield, Campbell River, Renfrew, and Victoria, just to name a few. The result is thousands of people are going to lose their jobs and it is going to cost this province hundreds of millions of dollars.

So how did we get here? Well it’s a complicated scenario and the road to this closure has a lot of ups and downs and twists and turns, but it goes something like this. Chinook stocks are diverse. Some come from the Fraser, some from rivers that empty directly into the ocean, some spend 2 years in the freshwater before they leave to the ocean, others out migrate right away, some spend their ocean life in local waters, some go way offshore. So, as you can imagine, some stocks might be suffering while others are doing very well. Large blanket closures are an ineffective way to manage such a diverse resource.

Enter interior Fraser chinook. These fish spawn in the interior tributaries to the Fraser, and they hang out in these rivers for 2 years before out-migrating. To say things are not going well up there is an understatement; less water, long hot summers, warm water, forest fires, siltation, are just a few of the issues these fish have to face for 2 years. The end result is the survival rate is extremely low. The few that do make it after 2 years then have to make it past the seals as they leave the Fraser. Of all the out migrating salmonids, these 2 year old chinook smolts are some of the biggest, only second to steelhead smolts. As a result, the seals focus on them, as they do steelhead smolts. As many as 47% of them are consumed by seals. The few that make it then head offshore to feed and return 2 years later. In general, they come back around the south end of Vancouver Island and into the south arm of the Fraser, returning in the months of April, May, June, and July. There is no doubt these fish need to be protected and we are all for that. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years, so much so that our exploitation rate for these fish is either at 0% or so small that it is negligible.

So, what about all these fish off South Bowen right now and over in Nanaimo and Gabriola? Well these are not the fish I just described above. DFO has a lot of DNA data that shows what fish we are catching, that is how we can be so certain. This is a scientific fact, not speculation. The fish we are we catching in these areas are from a variety of rivers where things are not as dire as the conditions seen in the interior of the province. The chinook stocks from these systems are stable, and in some cases are at or near record returns. There is no conservation concern for these stocks and a 2 per day limit is sustainable. A 1 per day limit is certainly sustainable and acceptable from a scientific fisheries management viewpoint. If you have been fishing these past 2 weeks you know how many fish are out there.

Then why did we get shut down? This is the question you should be asking and I am going to tell you the politics behind it. The reality is this. The interior Fraser chinook need protection. Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years as noted earlier, and commercial troll opportunities for these fish have been reduced heavily in the past and this year are non-existent. The last piece of the puzzle is First Nations in river fisheries for these same fish. You can’t carve any more meat off the bone from the recreational or commercial fleet, the rest has to come from First Nations in river fisheries. This isn’t me speaking; this is the DFO science that was presented in a variety of meetings and forums. The only way to put more of these fish on the spawning beds is to stop in river netting of these fish. Hence the recent closures and reduced opportunities for First Nations over the coming months as per the announcement yesterday. I hope you are connecting the dots here and asking yourself this question. So why is a sustainable fishery like we see off South Bowen, for non-interior Fraser chinook, which are experiencing good to excellent survival rates, closed? You should also be asking yourself why this fishery is closed when it has absolutely nothing to do with these interior Fraser chinook. Well we asked these very questions to the Minister and DFO these past few days. The answer we received was this. Despite the fact our current local chinook fisheries have no impact on these interior Fraser chinook, they have to close the recreational fleet on a grandiose scale so they can reduce First Nation in river harvesting opportunities for interior Fraser chinook. We pointed to their science that shows we aren’t catching those fish and asked if we could have 1 a day, the answer was no. We asked if we could keep a hatchery only, which has absolutely 0 effect on Fraser fish as these fish are from the USA, the answer was no. In short, the answer is the recreational fleet has to be closed first, and then they can take fisheries measures for First Nations second. That precedent was set in a case that is often referred to as the Tommy Case. Let me make this clear. If there is a conservation concern, I will be the first to put the rods away, and if anyone has a right to the first harvest of those fish, I agree it should be First Nations for ceremonial and food fish purposes. I get that if we are fishing for the same fish. What I don't agree with and what I don't get, is the DFO shutting down one distinct fishery and user group so they can shut down another user group on totally different fish. This is ludicrous and political, this is not scientific, and this is mismanagement of the resource at the highest level. So, I think it is important that we are all very clear that this Minister just shut down the entire south coast so they can attempt to reduce First Nation in river impacts on interior Fraser chinook. On our home waters that means they just shut down South Bowen, Thrasher, Nanaimo, which are all experiencing amazing fishing (for non-interior Fraser stocks), just to have the opportunity to keep First Nations nets out of the Fraser to save interior Fraser stocks. You can see my frustration. Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to do much to help these fish. DFO needs emergency hatchery production for these fish, the habitat needs some help, and we need to deal with the seals. None of that is happening anytime soon from what I can see. Since the DFO has sacrificed the whole south coast, I hope they plan on making sure the Fraser is net free until July 14. I hope fisheries like this have now been closed 2019 Open Times for the Mid & Upper Fraser River First Nations Fisheries - Week 16. I will give the DFO the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that is the case; I certainly hope so for the fish. In the meantime, diverse and sustainable recreational fisheries remain closed and the south coast marine fishery and economy has been cut off at the knees.

If you think this management strategy is unacceptable, you need to let DFO know. Send an email to these people and let them know this is not acceptable. Let them know how it is affecting you and let them know how you are going to vote next election.

Hon Jonathan Wilkinson Minister Jonathan.Wilkinson@parl.gc.ca

Rebecca Reid, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

We have had a lot of calls asking if you can still go fishing. The answer is YES. The regulations say non-retention of chinook, so you can still fish. You will have to practice catch and release on chinook. Fishing is nothing short of amazing right now. Here is a picture from a charter yesterday and fishing was fantastic. Of course, if you head out now it is catch and release, but that is still a lot of fun.
 
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I don’t think Suzuki is a hypocrite. He’s more of a strategist who knows how to get what he wants. I wish we had someone with his type of capabilities in our camp.
I was dealing one of the senior representatives of the Suzuki foundation and questioning their call for a full closure of Chinook in BC last year. He straight out told me but you have to ask for the maximum, because we always know we're going to get less. From what I have heard at the negotiation tables with DFO, even the Suzuki Foundation was shocked that they got option A, along with the reduction of a 30 Chinook limit down to 10, which wasn't even on the table in the discussion with the DFO. There's the strategist right there!
 
Sometimes the strategist becomes the “bait” in the game of chess. I bet ya he didn’t see the pipeline business and the timing of the AB UCP win in the rear mirror. Why do you think the announcement was delayed til mid April? Even the initial draft was pointing to April 1st but it didn’t come out until the AB election results were confirmed. The whole thing is so political and nasty....

BTW, did we ever ask for the maximum? Do we even agree on what”maximum” means for our sector?
 
I was dealing one of the senior representatives of the Suzuki foundation and questioning their call for a full closure of Chinook in BC last year. He straight out told me but you have to ask for the maximum, because we always know we're going to get less. From what I have heard at the negotiation tables with DFO, even the Suzuki Foundation was shocked that they got option A, along with the reduction of a 30 Chinook limit down to 10, which wasn't even on the table in the discussion with the DFO. There's the strategist right there!

Sides negotiating on our side should use that same tactic.
 
April 21
week 16 Chinook Stl'atl'imc /
Ts'kw'aylaxw Fraser R - Texas Creek to Kelly Creek 7
(daylight only) Monday April 15 05:00 Sunday April 21 22:00*
(extends into next week) Gill net, Dip net, Angling with Rod & Reel XFSC 78 2019 / XFSC 79 2019
April 21
week 16 Chinook Xaxli'p East side of Fraser R - Lillooet between 3 mile & 14 mile 7
(daylight only) Monday April 15 05:00 Sunday April 21 22:00*
(extends into next week) Gill net, Dip net, Angling with Rod & Reel XFSC 80 2019
 
I don’t think Suzuki is a hypocrite. He’s more of a strategist who knows how to get what he wants. I wish we had someone with his type of capabilities in our camp.
Really, Suzuki is not a hypocrite?

What do you call someone who advocates zero population growth (two children per family) and has FIVE children. Or someone vehemently opposed to the use of fossil fuels who flies on chartered helicopters. Who owns a large mansion in Point Grey in addition to other homes?
 
April 21
week 16 Chinook Stl'atl'imc /
Ts'kw'aylaxw Fraser R - Texas Creek to Kelly Creek 7
(daylight only) Monday April 15 05:00 Sunday April 21 22:00*
(extends into next week) Gill net, Dip net, Angling with Rod & Reel XFSC 78 2019 / XFSC 79 2019
April 21
week 16 Chinook Xaxli'p East side of Fraser R - Lillooet between 3 mile & 14 mile 7
(daylight only) Monday April 15 05:00 Sunday April 21 22:00*
(extends into next week) Gill net, Dip net, Angling with Rod & Reel XFSC 80 2019

Not only is this impacting early Fraser Chinook that we're trying to protect and that we were told we're going to be close to gillnets by DFO, but also chilcotin steelhead that may still be in that section of the Fraser!
 
Not only is this impacting early Fraser Chinook that we're trying to protect and that we were told we're going to be close to gillnets by DFO, but also chilcotin steelhead that may still be in that section of the Fraser!
You didn’t actually believe they would have there nets out of the water till July 15th did you? This is all about reallocating this resource from all user groups to just the fn.
 
You didn’t actually believe they would have there nets out of the water till July 15th did you? This is all about reallocating this resource from all user groups to just the fn.

This is what DFO is telling us a major reason for the closure is. I am not saying its happening, because we're talking about DFO!
 
Really, Suzuki is not a hypocrite?

What do you call someone who advocates zero population growth (two children per family) and has FIVE children. Or someone vehemently opposed to the use of fossil fuels who flies on chartered helicopters. Who owns a large mansion in Point Grey in addition to other homes?

Someone should see if they can find the photo of him holding a large salmon back at the dock that has floating around the internet. May have even been on this site at one point.
 
Dr-Suzuki-1024x684.jpg

Enjoying the kill with his millionaire buddies Bruce Langereis, CEO of Delta Developments (who owned the Hotel Georgia), and, the owner of Hawksworth Restaurant in Vancouver. (Based on photos I saw on the website I pulled this off).
 
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I don’t know where they get that the Cons never did anything for salmon. So what if they encouraged business and development, good. We need revenue to have the money to put back into resources. Some of the programs held dearest to the west coast salmon were Conservative initiatives. The very Pacific Salmon Foundation was started under and by a Conservative government and MP. Some of its biggest annual donors are conservative businesses and groups. Harper did not muzzle scientist he got rid of the excess that were doing nothing but living off the government trough. They put millions into hatcheries and enhancement as much or more than any other government in the past did.
Harper did not muzzle scientist he got rid of the excess that were doing nothing but living off the government trough. I call BS Walleyes. Lets see some names of those who you think were doing this.
 
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He got rid of all the habitat biologists in BC expect 1 in prince george that has to somehow over see the whole province. Is responsible for approval of all the development permits in BC. It's impossible to get out to the sites and basically turned it into a rubber stamp process.

I've heard the liberals have started to turn that around a bit. Herd a few months ago they sent a lot of officers for 2 weeks of training on habitat. A lot of the stuff harper ripped apart is being corrected in the new fisheries act.

So in that respect the current government is hands down the winner.
 
Really, Suzuki is not a hypocrite?

What do you call someone who advocates zero population growth (two children per family) and has FIVE children. Or someone vehemently opposed to the use of fossil fuels who flies on chartered helicopters. Who owns a large mansion in Point Grey in addition to other homes?
Sizuki is a ******* hypocrite. Can we move on now??
 
According to the minister, the entire coast is closed to chinook retention for a few runs of early fraser chinook, so as to allow a ban on native netting of those stocks as it is the main source of mortality. Legal precedent has established that that native needs must be met first, so to some extent the governments hands are tied. However, there is nothing to prevent the government to negotiate a settlement with the natives, provide them with the economic benefit they would derive from that fishery, and pay for it with a license surcharge. It seems it's worth trying to find a way to maintain the economic benefits of the sport fishery, and appease the natives. If this were Quebec or Atlantic Canada you can bet the fishery would stay open regardless of the cost.
 
There gill netting right now in the Fraser. I can see 3 boats by derby reach right now. This is a complete ******* joke. Conservation ? Hmm what does that word even mean today ? Economic benefit you say .... hmm they already have a **** ton of those not much more you can offer them. Maybe a right arm or leg other then that it really doesn’t matter because we are all about reconciliation!!!! What a joke....it will never end as long as the govt keeps caving. How much longer do we have to keep paying for our grandparents mistakes sheesh.

Sorry guys just venting
 
According to the minister, the entire coast is closed to chinook retention for a few runs of early fraser chinook, so as to allow a ban on native netting of those stocks as it is the main source of mortality. Legal precedent has established that that native needs must be met first, so to some extent the governments hands are tied. However, there is nothing to prevent the government to negotiate a settlement with the natives, provide them with the economic benefit they would derive from that fishery, and pay for it with a license surcharge. It seems it's worth trying to find a way to maintain the economic benefits of the sport fishery, and appease the natives. If this were Quebec or Atlantic Canada you can bet the fishery would stay open regardless of the cost.
Well the whole coast isn’t really closed, so I wonder will the argument be made that Fraser River Springs are being caught in the open areas and therefore nets are OK? Not sure how precise the knowledge is regarding their migration route? I’ve tried to follow the route on the DFO chart and it looks like either the Springs start or finish their migration around Haida Gwaii lol? Also not sure what the dotted line indicates? If anyone knows where the actual info is, hard facts,I’d appreciate if you could steer me in the right direction.
 
There gill netting right now in the Fraser. I can see 3 boats by derby reach right now. This is a complete ******* joke. Conservation ? Hmm what does that word even mean today ? Economic benefit you say .... hmm they already have a **** ton of those not much more you can offer them. Maybe a right arm or leg other then that it really doesn’t matter because we are all about reconciliation!!!! What a joke....it will never end as long as the govt keeps caving. How much longer do we have to keep paying for our grandparents mistakes sheesh.

Sorry guys just venting

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html

https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40751089.pdf

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ECOSYSTEM INTERACTIONS

Eulachon are prey for many species of fish, marine mammals and birds. In-river predators include white sturgeon, Steller sea lions, harbour seals, and eagles. Salmon and Dolly Varden trout have also been reported to feed on Eulachon eggs or larvae. Marine predators include dogfish, pacific cod, hake, salmon, pollock, halibut, rockfish and many other species of fish, marine mammals and birds. Juvenile Eulachon and larvae stomach contents have been found to include phytoplankton, copepod eggs, copepods, mysids, ostracods and barnacle larvae. Limited samples from offshore Eulachon suggest that the euphausiid Thysanoessa spinifera is their main prey along with other euphasiids, fish and invertebrates. At this time there is no information available on the appropriate conservation limits for Eulachon based on ecosystem considerations. Research is ongoing to better understand ecosystem processes and the role Eulachon play in maintaining the integrity and functioning of the ecosystem.
 

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