The Official No Fishing Vent Thread

[walleyes]

Don’t you have an anti fishing or anti hunting, anti gun, save the whales protest you should be at, or you just got back I guess,

 

[ziggy]

You guys we’ve got to quit fighting the last election and start fighting the next one!Arguing about who did the least in the past ,when we should instead be demanding to know what they plan to do in the future, plays right into their hands. We have an election coming up, if the Public Fishery is important to you, make sure it becomes an issue. Right now I doubt if any politician or Party thinks it will cost them a seat.

 

[pescador]

Conservatives ain’t perfect. But one thing I know; with the Liberals, in particular “Trust Fund Baby” JT, we ain’t going to be fishing and we ain’t gonna have any guns. While I’m concerned about a lot of things, these two things are key drivers for who I’m voting for in October. I find the Cons listen to constituents. The Liberals could give a **** but serve special interest groups. And not the type I support. Just one mans view.

 

[halimark]

Where do you get your info, your facebook feed? My god man.

Harper had to go, so last election was an easy decision for me. Liberals have disappointed me on a few issues so Ill be looking at all options again in the fall. Really hoping Pacific Salmon enhancement is brought up and strategies are presented during the campaigning. Ill be interested to see if Scheer is more then just an attack dog foaming at the mouth for JT, because I'm looking for some hope right about now.

Libs disappointed you on a "few issues"? What issues have they impressed you on? Just wondering, I cant think of any for myself, actually disgusted at JT and his fools on EVERY issue.

HM

 

[halimark]

With all due respect you do not live here so you don't know what we had to put up with in the Harper years. Ever year we had budget cuts that seem to be targeted to enhancement and fisheries enforcement to name a couple. I should know as I have direct knowledge and worked with other volunteers trying our best to raise salmon at a community hatchery. Our funds dried up and our technical support was cut to the bone or just gone. I'm also part of SFAC/SFAB so I got a window into policy and budgets with DFO hatcheries and enforcement. Speaking of SFAC/SFAB some may think we are useless and it seemed that Harper agreed as we had that budget cut also and it was getting to the point that we were seriously wondering if that would continue. We were to the point that meetings might have to be over a phone just to save money. It sure seemed like someone wanted to shut us down.

It got so bad here in my area that I had to go to my local MP (PC Party Whip) to plead for an increase in the budget for fuel so that our local DFO Officer could patrol his patch. I remember the insane lengths he had to go through just to get new tires for his rig. That and all up and down the coast they laid off tons of officers and left many local communities without protection from poachers. They had to sell off their boats so they could no longer patrol the local waters. We warned them but they did not listen and we know how that turned out. The current government has been training new recruits so hopefully that will turn around. Budgets to hatcheries are increasing but they are still nowhere near where I would like to see them but there is hope. I could go on and on like most here that got involved with volunteering here for our beloved salmon but until you have lived it you don't know squat.

One last point.... Those salmon that we are trying to protect, their 4 and 5 year olds that were born under Harper and his effed up policy.

Signed : Tory thru and thru but not a "new" conservative as that's not conservative it's trumpism.

Agreed those were hard years, that's when the world went thru the financial shutdowns, cant imagine if current Gov was in power then and had to make real hard decisions. With another 4 years of JT there wont be a SFAB or rec fishermen, wont be a need for tires, only 1 small minority of Canadians will be allowed to fish. Take off those glasses.
NO Gov in the last 30 years has done much to help our fish/wildlife stocks, all could have. Only 1 Gov has repeatedly attacked legal tax paying middle class, reduced our military, implemented useless rules and blamed all criminal and wildlife issues on rec fishers, hunters and firearm owners. Sorry if you still believe Sunny Ways. I am no dummy, JT is NOT my savior, he can still be yours. I do know that my ability to participate in all I love has been negatively impacted more in the last 3 years than in the previous 12. Cant blame that on Conservatives. I do hope there are more Canadians who think like me come Oct and history will repeat and return normality to Canada. Our reputation on a world scale has been smeared worse than your Trumpism.

HM

 

[fish brain]

You guys know that the liberals have been in power most of the last what 30 years and they have done nothing to save the salmon. The conservatives came in during a global recetion when most people wanted to keep or get a job to keep things going. I will be voting against the liberals. To each there own

Since 1980 the Conservatives have held power for 20 years. The liberals 18. So pretty much a tie in the last 40

 

[fish brain]

Honestly I don't think it matters who is in power. Unless we ALL, every user group band together as one lobbying unit every party will continue to cut us until there is nothing left. The only answer is to form one lobby group funded by everyone- perhaps from a fee on all licensees, not just the salmon conservation stamp, so we can pay to have representatives in the halls of Ottawa, will we ever see an end to the cuts. You are dreaming in Technicolor if you believe otherwise.

 

[wolf]

Can any of you guys remember what Roy of Blue Wolf was saying months ago and many were telling him to stop being so negative??
Well...it looks like it's here and here to stay...and no one is happy.

YES and its making a huge impact im only 1 guide out of many in 3 days ive had 9 cancellations.one group ive had for 26 years gone another huge group of over 12 boats GONE my vent is this last year I said we needed to push back and push back hard i heard nothing but crickets... where was these so called "groups " not a thing . NOW that its gonna effect the pocket book now they want to speak up..well its too late !!!!!!!!!!!!minister has basically said **** YOU communities . this is and will be irreversible to many communities this will be a HUGE domino effect to hotels.air,ferry,resorts ,lodging,guides,sporting goods stores .bait sales the list goes on and on . and for those sitting behind the monitor saying oh its not that bad get your fucken head out of the sand . trust me more **** will be coming down .... whales and i predict MORE restrictions on other fish because the exploitation rate on other fish will spike 100% so better get what you can when you can as that will be taken away soon too....

 

[wildmanyeah]

You guys know that the liberals have been in power most of the last what 30 years and they have done nothing to save the salmon. The conservatives came in during a global recetion when most people wanted to keep or get a job to keep things going. I will be voting against the liberals. To each there own

With all due respect you do not live here so you don't know what we had to put up with in the Harper years. Ever year we had budget cuts that seem to be targeted to enhancement and fisheries enforcement to name a couple. I should know as I have direct knowledge and worked with other volunteers trying our best to raise salmon at a community hatchery. Our funds dried up and our technical support was cut to the bone or just gone. I'm also part of SFAC/SFAB so I got a window into policy and budgets with DFO hatcheries and enforcement. Speaking of SFAC/SFAB some may think we are useless and it seemed that Harper agreed as we had that budget cut also and it was getting to the point that we were seriously wondering if that would continue. We were to the point that meetings might have to be over a phone just to save money. It sure seemed like someone wanted to shut us down.

It got so bad here in my area that I had to go to my local MP (PC Party Whip) to plead for an increase in the budget for fuel so that our local DFO Officer could patrol his patch. I remember the insane lengths he had to go through just to get new tires for his rig. That and all up and down the coast they laid off tons of officers and left many local communities without protection from poachers. They had to sell off their boats so they could no longer patrol the local waters. We warned them but they did not listen and we know how that turned out. The current government has been training new recruits so hopefully that will turn around. Budgets to hatcheries are increasing but they are still nowhere near where I would like to see them but there is hope. I could go on and on like most here that got involved with volunteering here for our beloved salmon but until you have lived it you don't know squat.

One last point.... Those salmon that we are trying to protect, their 4 and 5 year olds that were born under Harper and his effed up policy.

Signed : Tory thru and thru but not a "new" conservative as that's not conservative it's trumpism.

The same thing happened in the 1990’s when their wages got frozen and department got ripped apart under the liberals.

The Squamish office was just about to get shut down until the natives wore a letter.

The mission office did get shut down under the current liberals a few years ago. In the heart of the Fraser where a good part of the poaching happens.

The current recruits you see they are where is replacing all the retired officers that left in the last 5 years and many of the positions still aren't filled. The current Reggio always director of C&P was hired from out side of the department because no one inside wanted it.

As far as I know SEP still has not got an increase their last one being in 1996 so quite a few governments since then.

But you are right the current liberals are undoing some of the environmental damage that Harper did. From a pure salmon standpoint they probably are the best option. They have also traditionally gave First Nations more of the pie, so of reconciliation is your goal and your okay with loosing opportunity to First Nations liberals have ill help with that.

 

[bigbruce]

Don’t you have an anti fishing or anti hunting, anti gun, save the whales protest you should be at, or you just got back I guess,

If this comment was in response to Gil's post on the Harper years - you're way offside. Like Gil, I spend several hundred hours a year volunteering at a local hatchery as well as being involved in stream keeping on three local salmon bearing creeks where we have "rescued" over 50,000 wild coho over the past 4 years before the creeks dried up, holding the fish at our hatchery until they can be released back into the creeks in the fall.
I too saw first hand the impact that the budget cuts through those years had on our ability to support the resource. I have also seen some improvement over the past several years, and if something comes out of the $$ recently announced by Wilkinson and Horgan, all the better.
However, no one should be deluded into thinking that the west coast fishing issue is going to be any kind of a factor in determining the outcome of the next election. If anyone thinks that the vast majority of people east of Hope gives a rat's butt about the plight of recreational fishers in BC, I've got some sad news...

 

[SpringVelocity]

Well yesterday SFI met with minister privately. The so called groups did the best they can. Sfab has been there every step of the way. We aren't the government. You can vent on us but everyone did best they could. Last night many also went to the Raincoast presentation to speak on behalf of us. I am kind of suprised ot your comments honestly but understand. The entire thing is ******.

 

[Stoisy]

Don’t you have an anti fishing or anti hunting, anti gun, save the whales protest you should be at, or you just got back I guess,

No one is anti-fishing etc... like you said, let's not focus the negative energy on each other. We're all on the same team. But you can't deny the facts that @GLG is making. Both Governments have faults. But there is no doubt that the Conservatives were slashing protection for the environment and specifically the Fisheries Act - driven by industry demands. How is that protecting the fish. Agreed, this was great for industry, but how is this going to keep us fishing into the future? Made it nearly impossible to charge individuals for habitat impacts.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ct-change-guided-by-industry/article13606358/

Worst thing to happen to fisheries management. Gutted our ability to enforce any impacts on our water ways... If you know or speak with the DFO staff (not the assholes at the top), but those who are doing the work, you'd know this change was devastating, and the new amendments coming will restore their ability to enforce and charge these infractions. Also, providing increased funding for enforcement and monitoring... which hopefully turns into more in-river monitoring.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/campaign-c...-loi-sur-les-peches/proposed-propose-eng.html
Have read through this if you'd like to see the improvements being made.

Increased funding for research, there's a plus
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...oration-fund-to-rebuild-wild-stocks-1.5058567

Harper did not muzzle scientist he got rid of the excess that were doing nothing but living off the government trough.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/krist-miller-scientist-dfo-muzzled-1.3308549

Kristi Miller is most definitely not some hack living off the Government, she's a dedicated scientist who is trying to understand what is causing increased disease presence in salmon populations on the coast. You can't deny this... Not saying that the new Conservatives would necessarily do this, but previous actions do worry me.

Honestly I don't think it matters who is in power. Unless we ALL, every user group band together as one lobbying unit every party will continue to cut us until there is nothing left. The only answer is to form one lobby group funded by everyone- perhaps from a fee on all licensees, not just the salmon conservation stamp, so we can pay to have representatives in the halls of Ottawa, will we ever see an end to the cuts. You are dreaming in Technicolor if you believe otherwise.

Exactly!! Regardless of who gets in, we need to make sure they are accountable.

@bigbruce and @SpringVelocity you guys nailed it - telling people they don't respect access to the resource, when they're dedicated to helping it... good on ya.

 

[Whitebuck]

SV, thank you for the time your group has spent representing us.

Was there any change in the ministers stance on the draconian closures?

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Lots of political shots being fired at each other, unproductive but understandable as one of the first phases in processing news like this is looking to lay blame. Outside of the politics, one of the common themes here is the pandering to special interest groups, their financial backing, etc,etc.

I hope I’m not the only one to note this but shouldn’t we, the rec sector, be one of the biggest and best funded special interest groups out there if we could stop throwing buns at each other over our differences and rally around our common interests? 300,000 salt licenses, 200,000 salmon stamps, millions of tourism dollars, industry dollars and no shortage of celebs and millionaires with skin in the game .... that sounds to me like the foundation of a special interest group w/ a lot of weight.

So what are our common interests? From my perspective, the one topic that keeps coming up that irks all of us, regardless of political colour, fishing location, province of residence (or country for that matter) and that’s the gill netting in the Fraser River.

So, here’s a question for all of you - if the rec sector has had to employ barbless hooks for ever, now have to have descending devices for rockfish, extra escapes holes in our traps for crabs, etc, all in the name of conservation then how is it that gill nets are still allowed in the river as the fish are on their spawning run? Whether or not we can do anything about FN constitutional right to FSC harvest, it doesn’t mean they should get an exemption from having to use sustainable harvest techniques. Dipping, fish wheels, beach seines, weirs and traps can all be used and all those methods would allow the release of non-target spp, weak stocks, etc. Gill nets are indiscriminate killers - sturgeon, steelhead, coho or whatever gets entangled is pretty much dead.

Imho this is one fight a coordinated rec sector might be able to make some headway on - if the DFO can truly argue there’s a conservation concern that requires these harsh measures, there’s no way anyone could pass the red-face test wrt gill nets when there are numerous alternatives.

I’m not naive to think getting rid of gill nets fully eliminates the in river harvest issue, but it sure would make a dent in it and it would make it a lot easier for enforcement, no arguing constitution on each case, they’d simply be taking gill nets off the river, not stopping fishing. The vast majority of poachers from any group are lazy bastards, so no gill net to set and do your dirty work would mean not worth the effort for many.

Anyway, throwing it out there as a possible constructive outlet for all our anger. Or, we can continue arguing with each other and venting.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[SpringVelocity]

SV, thank you for the time your group has spent representing us.

Was there any change in the ministers stance on the draconian closures?

I think someone listed what was asked. Not sure where it is at right now. Rob A. went there yesterday. Hey I am not saying people cant vent. I just wish we had the necessary cash to fight these conservation groups. They are well funded and very well paid. So while I get the frustration you cant go to war without money. That is where we need to get to. My role is small I am just a little a cog in a very big wheel. And I am just as mad as everyone.

 

[Normfish]

Is it August 1st yet ????

 

[GLG]

Don’t you have an anti fishing or anti hunting, anti gun, save the whales protest you should be at, or you just got back I guess,

There's a saying out there.
If you have the facts on your side ... pound the facts.
If you have the law on your side ... pound the law.
If you have neither ... pound the table.

I see you need to pound the table with your baseless personal attack.

Here is a fact that happened in the Harper years.

How the Harper Government Committed a Knowledge Massacre
Scientists are calling it "libricide." Seven of the nine world-famous Department of Fisheries and Oceans [DFO] libraries were closed by autumn 2013, ostensibly to digitize the materials and reduce costs. But sources told the independent Tyee in December that a fraction of the 600,000-volume collection had been digitized. Irreplaceable documents like the 50 volumes produced by the H.M.S. Challenger expedition of the late 1800s that discovered thousands of new sea creatures, are now moldering in landfills.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/capt-trevor-greene/science-cuts-canada_b_4534729.html

 

[pescador]

There's a saying out there.
If you have the facts on your side ... pound the facts.
If you have the law on your side ... pound the law.
If you have neither ... pound the table.

I see you need to pound the table with your baseless personal attack.

Here is a fact that happened in the Harper years.

How the Harper Government Committed a Knowledge Massacre
Scientists are calling it "libricide." Seven of the nine world-famous Department of Fisheries and Oceans [DFO] libraries were closed by autumn 2013, ostensibly to digitize the materials and reduce costs. But sources told the independent Tyee in December that a fraction of the 600,000-volume collection had been digitized. Irreplaceable documents like the 50 volumes produced by the H.M.S. Challenger expedition of the late 1800s that discovered thousands of new sea creatures, are now moldering in landfills.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/capt-trevor-greene/science-cuts-canada_b_4534729.html

Pretty sure I could find a few issues the Liberals have caused over the last century similar or worse in nature, but, that wouldn't serve any purpose. Right now, this very week, the Liberals made a decision that I personally find very painful. In fact, they've made several ****** decisions in recent weeks/months that come to mind. Thats what I'm focussed on right now and will be focussed on come next October. There is no way the Conservatives will ever be as bad as this Liberal JT Gov. It just can't get any worse. In fact, putting DFO aside, he was never ready to lead and never will be. It's not about the party in this case, it's about the man. What kind of teacher quits his job mid-term leaving his students and school? A really ****** one...Just one mans view....

 

[Whitebuck]

Great post Ukee!

 

[Aces]

Oh man, I've heard a lot of "screw the Liberals, bring back the Conservatives" talk... Give your head a shake if you think that's the right solution... We really want to bring back the science muzzling Conservatives into power? I'm gutted, no ******* doubt. This is the worst case scenario. BUT, to consider bringing back a Government that absolutely destroyed any protection for the fish and water ways that support these fish... really? The Govt that decided to muzzle scientists that were showing the harm that was occurring to our wild stocks of fish... really? I know this Government can go fu<k themselves with this type of decision, but in all reality... as tough as it is to say... something needed to be done. And it's the first time DFO has ever put the fish first. Yes, I realize that we need to up the enforcement on the rivers and ensure their proposed plan is actually adhered to. This is the FIRST TIME the government has ever made a decision that truly helps a stock of fish that we all care deeply about. Yes, they aren't listening to the science that shows we have a minute impact, BUT, we still have an impact, and they are protecting the fish from that in the best possible way they can, for the FISH. I'll reiterate, I don't agree with the decision... But the silver lining is this is the first time ever! EVER! that DFO is truly protecting fish... WHy we can't keep hatchery fish blows my fu<king mind, but...

I don't know... Obviously going to get some negative comments about this, but I'm just trying to find a silver lining, and really, I think at least we can be happy that they are trying to do something proactive before the stocks completely collapses. Still... fu<k the Liberals, but fu<k the Conservatives too, they wouldn't have done anything... at least the Libs are trying something.

Here’s your Fraser fish protection
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...wed-the-bc-black-market-salmon/article625576/