el.Pereh
Well-Known Member
LolNice to see there's a clear combined effort here
The Official No Fishing Vent Thread
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Fishtech1
Active Member
Here in Wa state we are dealing with a lot of the same issues. We have the tribes as our co-managers of the resource, back room meetings, misinformation, poor science, with little or no recreational representation. Dealing with the same issues of the rec areas being closed allocations moved, yet they the natives are allowed to net the rivers? And now that we have the SRKW issue as a favorite scapegoat for justifying closures even more are on the way. The enviro groups would like not only to close the straight of JDF but the San Juan Islands (parts of which have already been closed, completely closed to bottom fishing ) and will continue to push until all of Puget Sound aka Salish Sea is turned into a marine sanctuary, as there are probably groups that would like to make all of the west coast from Ak to Ca.
My reason for bringing this up is that I feel without a concerted effort of recreational fishers along with people that make their living from the resource in one form or another, for users on both sides of the boarder the future does not bode well for any of us. I know that this a multifaceted problem and there are no easy
answers.
Is anyone aware of any type of organization that can or will support the combined concerns on both sides of the boarder?
If not perhaps it time to look at organizing one, one with a unified front and proper representation so we can make a stand and be able to support the lawyers, lobbyists etc that it is going to take to make our concerns heard.
My reason for bringing this up is that I feel without a concerted effort of recreational fishers along with people that make their living from the resource in one form or another, for users on both sides of the boarder the future does not bode well for any of us. I know that this a multifaceted problem and there are no easy
answers.
Is anyone aware of any type of organization that can or will support the combined concerns on both sides of the boarder?
If not perhaps it time to look at organizing one, one with a unified front and proper representation so we can make a stand and be able to support the lawyers, lobbyists etc that it is going to take to make our concerns heard.
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
It reminds me of another political football that's tossed around so often these days.
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree a little bit Pippen. I think a protest might put some pressure on the Fisheries minister and his liberal MP colleagues to maybe look at opening some areas such as mainland inlets or possibly having earlier opening dates in other areas. The SFI did mention that this could be possibly something the minister was open to when they met with him the the day after the announcement.
It will also let DFO know that we're not going to let them off the hook by just closing it and not doing more action. Such as addressing pinnipeds, habitat restoration and Hatchery enhancement. The closure isn't easy excuse to make the Minister look like he's doing something!
Instead of maybe calling it a protest, it might be better to call it a rally?
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ziggy
Well-Known Member
There’s an election coming up any pressure especially if sustained will be notice. The ENGO’s run constant campaigns and as such have politicians ears. The Squeaky Wheel syndrome.
This is the "*****" page right? Here goes.
I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you *****), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"
If you spend $1000's on your boat and tackle, days getting ready and weeks fishing, what percentage of $$ and time have YOU spent helping the fish. I'm betting that the raffle ticket you bought for $20 last year wasn't quite enough, huh? That day you volunteered was 5 years ago? It doesn't count anymore. The fish banquet you attended was great, but maybe it's time we all you our hands dirty, if we want to keep fishing in the future.
I have noticed that quite often, "the loudest do the least", when it comes to helping our salmon.
Lots of talk and finger pointing (and hypocracy) (SCREAMING) - "Its them, not us!" DFO has screwed it up! Damn seals! Fishfarms! FN fisheries! "We only catch what is allowed", "Eco groups are out to get us!" , "Damn Whales" and my personal favourite "I catch and release!". But what did you actually do? What did you put back?(to help the salmon?)
Our spring fish banquet (Campbell River) raised over $100k for the salmon and was attended by 425 people. Know how many active fishing guides were there? Zero! Know how many guides donated prizes? Two. Commercial fishers- zero.
The tackle stores, resorts and commercial fishing suppliers were well represented, but the actual boat drivers were noticeable in their absence. A good bunch of retired guides and retired comm fishers, but the guys that are still actively doing it................ not so much.
A guide makes his/her living off a public resource. No requirement to put anything back. You would think the connection between dead fish = $$ would motivate consumers to protect the resource? Largely not. (SCREAMING) "But I create jobs!" "The sale of licenses helps enhancement!" "I generate more $$ per fish than commercial guys!" - Horsesh##, the 100 springs you bonked last year didn't help the resource. Oh, you caught and released another 100? You know an average of 1 in 10 released fish goes straight to the bottom. How many more gimp off and provide seal lunch? Your catch and release does less harm than bonking, but it still does harm, and sure as hell doesn't help the resource.
Liberals, NDP, DFO, Federal Government...... Do you remember the last time government fixed anything? Limited budgets, bureaucracy and always dealing with the lowest bidder. Do you guys really think they will fix? If they do, how quick will it happen?
That smell? It's the s##t hitting the fan, and it can get much worse. Maybe these closures will wake a few people up. It has always been grass root organizations that have created change. You CAN fix your local stream, donate more $$, join a streamkeepers group, while writing letters to the people above in government. Get your hands dirty, and stop talking about it. If you salmon fish, you are part of the problem. That's OK, just put something back.
The 4 guys that you fish with for a week every year? Get together and volunteer for a day and cough up more $$! Guides - how about every customer in your boat gives $20 to the PSF or local enhancement group. Talk to your customers and let them know where it is going.
Most of all, ask yourselves "WHAT HAVE I REALLY PUT BACK?" am I being honest with myself? Am I one of the screamers that doesn't contribute, and blames others? What can I do to make even a small difference?
If we want our kids to be able to catch a fish we need to do more. 40 years from now, when all chinook are dead, do you want to be the guy that tells his grandkids "I didn't actually do anything about it at the time, but man, did I ***** and complain!"
I would like everyone to ask themselves (before you *****), "what have I really done for the resource?" "What have I really put back?"
If you spend $1000's on your boat and tackle, days getting ready and weeks fishing, what percentage of $$ and time have YOU spent helping the fish. I'm betting that the raffle ticket you bought for $20 last year wasn't quite enough, huh? That day you volunteered was 5 years ago? It doesn't count anymore. The fish banquet you attended was great, but maybe it's time we all you our hands dirty, if we want to keep fishing in the future.
I have noticed that quite often, "the loudest do the least", when it comes to helping our salmon.
Lots of talk and finger pointing (and hypocracy) (SCREAMING) - "Its them, not us!" DFO has screwed it up! Damn seals! Fishfarms! FN fisheries! "We only catch what is allowed", "Eco groups are out to get us!" , "Damn Whales" and my personal favourite "I catch and release!". But what did you actually do? What did you put back?(to help the salmon?)
Our spring fish banquet (Campbell River) raised over $100k for the salmon and was attended by 425 people. Know how many active fishing guides were there? Zero! Know how many guides donated prizes? Two. Commercial fishers- zero.
The tackle stores, resorts and commercial fishing suppliers were well represented, but the actual boat drivers were noticeable in their absence. A good bunch of retired guides and retired comm fishers, but the guys that are still actively doing it................ not so much.
A guide makes his/her living off a public resource. No requirement to put anything back. You would think the connection between dead fish = $$ would motivate consumers to protect the resource? Largely not. (SCREAMING) "But I create jobs!" "The sale of licenses helps enhancement!" "I generate more $$ per fish than commercial guys!" - Horsesh##, the 100 springs you bonked last year didn't help the resource. Oh, you caught and released another 100? You know an average of 1 in 10 released fish goes straight to the bottom. How many more gimp off and provide seal lunch? Your catch and release does less harm than bonking, but it still does harm, and sure as hell doesn't help the resource.
Liberals, NDP, DFO, Federal Government...... Do you remember the last time government fixed anything? Limited budgets, bureaucracy and always dealing with the lowest bidder. Do you guys really think they will fix? If they do, how quick will it happen?
That smell? It's the s##t hitting the fan, and it can get much worse. Maybe these closures will wake a few people up. It has always been grass root organizations that have created change. You CAN fix your local stream, donate more $$, join a streamkeepers group, while writing letters to the people above in government. Get your hands dirty, and stop talking about it. If you salmon fish, you are part of the problem. That's OK, just put something back.
The 4 guys that you fish with for a week every year? Get together and volunteer for a day and cough up more $$! Guides - how about every customer in your boat gives $20 to the PSF or local enhancement group. Talk to your customers and let them know where it is going.
Most of all, ask yourselves "WHAT HAVE I REALLY PUT BACK?" am I being honest with myself? Am I one of the screamers that doesn't contribute, and blames others? What can I do to make even a small difference?
If we want our kids to be able to catch a fish we need to do more. 40 years from now, when all chinook are dead, do you want to be the guy that tells his grandkids "I didn't actually do anything about it at the time, but man, did I ***** and complain!"
Very Well Said Crab bait. So so true.
Here at our local hatchery DFO stopped in to see how our fry were doing.......
Quote. Youve got to many destroy 15,000. Jaws drop to tge floor. Are you kidding? Lets give them to neighbouring streams struggling. NOPE. DESTROY THEM .
I understand theres a lot of science but......when we provide proven science with Samples and Data.....we get shat on. Thanks for coming out and making more fish for the Seals Lions and special groups.
Wheres the big bucks like Washington Oregon California.....nope next to nothing here in Canada.
What a flippin Joke.
Stuff the Avid Angler program up sideways. Its used against us.....creel samples .....against us.
This coastline is going to feel a HUGE economic hurt. Because of Mismanagement by DFO and turning a blind eye on the real culprits and cause for the demise.
Again PATHETIC and truly sad times for those so dedicated to the Wild Pacific Salmon and its future.
DFOs plan Does Not Build more fish or Solve ANY of the issues.
HT
Here at our local hatchery DFO stopped in to see how our fry were doing.......
Quote. Youve got to many destroy 15,000. Jaws drop to tge floor. Are you kidding? Lets give them to neighbouring streams struggling. NOPE. DESTROY THEM .
I understand theres a lot of science but......when we provide proven science with Samples and Data.....we get shat on. Thanks for coming out and making more fish for the Seals Lions and special groups.
Wheres the big bucks like Washington Oregon California.....nope next to nothing here in Canada.
What a flippin Joke.
Stuff the Avid Angler program up sideways. Its used against us.....creel samples .....against us.
This coastline is going to feel a HUGE economic hurt. Because of Mismanagement by DFO and turning a blind eye on the real culprits and cause for the demise.
Again PATHETIC and truly sad times for those so dedicated to the Wild Pacific Salmon and its future.
DFOs plan Does Not Build more fish or Solve ANY of the issues.
HT
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Which hatchery was that HT?
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Not only is it great to ask this of yourself and fellow fishers, but also ENGO’s. I used this tactic not long ago and laid out everything I put into fishing, including sales tax, GST on all purchased fishing and boating products ,a **** load of fuel tax, income tax at a much higher level than most Greenies, licenses, conservation stamps, On top of that the organizations I voluntarily donate to. I then asked and what have you done?
Seems the only answer from ENGO’s is to solve all the worlds problems by restricting what others do, while avoiding getting their own hands dirty. Do they ever volunteer to clean up streams, work in a hatchery or donate money to any of those causes? Of course not! Their job is to raise money and attend meetings and protests!
littlechucky
Crew Member
Spot on.
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
I have to say in our area the Vancouver guides do give back. Pacific Angler's Jason Tonelli and Bon Chovy Jason Assonitis do a tonne of work on everything from action on this issue to raising money thru donation of trips to the PSF.
Here's a couple other examples:
1. Avid Anglers DNA
2. Herring Rehabilitation in conjunction with Squamish Streamkeepers. Bon Chovy have herring spawn nets below our boats
3. Sandy Cove Sea Pen - That have 110k Harrison chinook smolts in early May. Check out this video we shot
4. Chinook Diet Sampling.. Bonchovy the single biggest contributor to this project for a PHD student for UVIC Fisheries.
Dave Steele from Highwater Tackle has been pounding on the Minsters door every day in the lead up to these closures.
The NGOs are clearly opposed to all hatchery produced salmon let alone working for a hatchery. These guys barely come down from their white collar ivory tower to see how the real- world economy operates. I guess when you belong to the elite social class, you see the world through a different lens.
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
Many of you on this Forum have been calling for a Protest. I am working with a group of concerned individuals who would like to see the public and media made aware of the impacts and issues of this decision. There will be more information to follow shortly on this Protest, but I wanted to let you know the planned date and time, so everyone will have time to plan to attend. It will be May 1 between 12 and 1 PM outside Fisheries Minister Wilkinson's office located at 102 W 3 Street, North Vancouver.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Oppose everything and do nothing.They do love to sit on the sidelines though and chirp those who are actually trying to solve the problems. Then again, no problems, no funding. Short of the elimination of the human race ( with the exception of them and their disciples) nothing will ever be good enough!
Agreed that a number of charter operators are very proactive in their involvement in the science side of things. Bon Chovy are a huge help with our adult diet sampling work as mentioned above. Other contributors are Pacific Angler, Coastal Pursuit (Comox), Mark Grant Sportfishing (Sooke), Gulf Rascal Charter (Pender Harbour), Brightfish Charters (Campbell River), Jeremy Maynard (Campbell River), Twin Strike Charters (Winter Harbour), and Langara Island Lodge.
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
One fundamental issue is that 99% of the fishery interest groups mentioned here and in other threads are coastal and thus 99% of the work and attention is focussed there, understandably.
In this instance, the Chinook, coho and steelhead stocks that are collapsing are Interior stocks and if folks think there’s not enough grassroots advocacy or work on the Island and coast, it’s still a hundred times more than what’s being done to protect these stocks and the streams, rivers and lakes they rely on, in the Interior. Cattle ranchers, dairy farmers, logging companies, hydro, mines and developers all advocate for what they want to do with the land and water in these critical watersheds but very few have anyone advocating for them outside of the few remaining DFO habitat staff or their provincial counterparts... the same staff **** on by their ruling governments and routinely **** on by folks on this forum.
I offer this to point out that it takes more than just standing up for and protecting your interests in your backyard if your interest is a resource like salmon that have diverse and large ecosystems they depend on!
Cheers!
Ukee
In this instance, the Chinook, coho and steelhead stocks that are collapsing are Interior stocks and if folks think there’s not enough grassroots advocacy or work on the Island and coast, it’s still a hundred times more than what’s being done to protect these stocks and the streams, rivers and lakes they rely on, in the Interior. Cattle ranchers, dairy farmers, logging companies, hydro, mines and developers all advocate for what they want to do with the land and water in these critical watersheds but very few have anyone advocating for them outside of the few remaining DFO habitat staff or their provincial counterparts... the same staff **** on by their ruling governments and routinely **** on by folks on this forum.
I offer this to point out that it takes more than just standing up for and protecting your interests in your backyard if your interest is a resource like salmon that have diverse and large ecosystems they depend on!
Cheers!
Ukee
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Bang on statement right there
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