Well Wolf, you can teach an old fisherman new tricks,I had gone off on a different tangent with my fishing,THANK YOU for your unselfish willigness to pass on some of your knowledge and to get me thinking again.It re lit my passion for fishing I can't thank you enough.P.S.played the rod pop off trick on a friend in Bamfield, still laughing over that one.THANKS ROY we'll see you out there next year. DAN