Rigging new spoons

[abbyfireguy]

Hey folks,

Just a simple question that I have had for a while.
When rigging new spoons,is it your preference to have a split ring and swivel to attach the leader to?
I have removed the welded ring from most of my coyote spoons over the years and put a slit ring and swivel on that end to attach the leader to.
Some guys say that's too much work, but it seems a better setup than just the plain welded ring.
Any thoughts pro or con...my wife says I am thinking way too much...
Which reminds me of the old saying, " Leave the thinking for horses,they have bigger heads". LOL!!

Later

 

[Rum Buddies]

probably thinking about it too much. Just make sure the hook point is facing the underside of the spoon, put it on backwards and changes the action. IME its the hook that breaks on coyotes not the ring.

 

[the fog ducker]

ive tried both with mixed success , this year , ive definitely found no swivel much more productive , bend my spoons slightly, get even more of a erratic action , 2 years ago , most spoons i had a tow swivel , couldnt keep em off ,
i experiment , find a spoon that is producing , get an identical one on ur second rigger , and play , leader length , swivel - no swivel , bends etc...9 times outta 10 , i will find a pattern that blows away that first rod that was the producer , now ive got my ace setup, i can now roll through other colors ta find lethal # 2 etc... DIALING IN !!

hope that helps

fd

 

[lucky strikes]

fog ducker.......how's bout a photie of the Ace set up

 

[the fog ducker]

lol

my gears all on the boat , im saying....it always changes , you need ta experiment , Coyote ,kingfisher, etc...spoons typically come fairly flat near the nose , i give a slight bend ...as close ta the ring as possible , without kinking them , once kinked , there garbage imo ,and ...a slight bend at the fatter tail , carefully , will have
more of an " S " shape when done ,dont over do it lol.... but , then again at times , less bend , back ta factory , I always have a factory spoon available to mimic when needed , this is typically done only on my smaller spoons ,5.0 or less , larger spoons all have tow swivels... last , its also critical t check your spoons after every fish , they bend far to easy , especially when buddy takes the shampooer to it before the hooks pulled , VERY important on smaller spoons !!

gd lk

fd

fog ducker.......how's bout a photie of the Ace set up

 

[Seafever]

I usually replace the back end of the spoon with a split ring, swivel and different hook.

The front leader end I have spoons where I have done this too.

The simple act of replacing the front end with split ring and swivel is not the governing factor as to how well a spoon works IMHO.

Bend in spoon, boat speed and hook size are bigger factors.

Spoons are IMO more sensitive to boat speed depending on the size of the spoon.

A two inch spoon doesn't take much at all to get it to go spastic. That said I have caught fish on spoons like that when they are going way too fast for their design.

On small spoons that are bendable, if you flatten them out with less bend correctly, they will work better at higher speeds.

If you put a big weighty stainless hook on them it will change the overall action of the spoon.

Lots of guys put huge meat hooks on their spoons because they don't want to lose a fish or big fish. But that huge Siwash dangling off the end is going to dampen the action.

Use too light a hook and you may get too much action on the spoon because the the whole rig is out of balance.

That said, commies often use heavy metal lures with a swivel up front and a hook that you could tow the Queen Mary with on the back.....and they catch fish.

Earlier in the year TwoGone caught a Tyee off Nanaimo with a spoon that he deliberately put a split ring and swivel on the front.

I like a split ring and swivel on the back because IMO you lose less fish when they start to thrash and roll etc.

One time I went to a tackle shop and the guy in there was absolutely adamant I should rig my hoochies with a swivel in them. I said "why?". He said " Don't you know that all salmon roll when caught?".

I said "o.k......so how come most of the spoons you sell don't have a swivel on the back?"

He says "you don't need one".

I said " you just told me that all salmon roll when caught........if I absolutely need a swivel in my hoochy.......why don't I need one on the back of my spoon?"

He couldn't answer that one.

 

[Sangstercraft]

Hey seafeaver: if you're fishing a hootchie, and have a swivel at the tail end of the flasher, what's the point of another swivel in the hootchie? Same thing if you're towing a spoon behind a flasher with a swivel on it. That's how I rig mine anyways. Thoughts?

 

[Seafever]

No...he was adamant I had to have a swivel inside the hoochy...regardless of the fact that there is one up by the flasher, which I told him.

I personally almost never use a swivel insdie the hoochy because as you said there is one up by the flasher.

I have a swivel up by the flasher for spoons too......nothing wrong with that.

 

[poet1971]

Hey seafeaver: if you're fishing a hootchie, and have a swivel at the tail end of the flasher, what's the point of another swivel in the hootchie? Same thing if you're towing a spoon behind a flasher with a swivel on it. That's how I rig mine anyways. Thoughts?

That's my opinion too Sangster. If you have a swivel anywhere between the lure and the bottom end of the flasher, job done. Any more would be redundant. I've seen guys put a swivel INSIDE the hoochie when they didn't have beads or head inserts, but that was just to flare out the head. I would worry about the tentacles or Mylar on the hoochie greeting tangled in the swivel

 

[spring fever]

Just a heads up guys on new coyote spoons-last week I had 2 hooks complete with split ring and Indiana spinner come off a coyote spoon in the net and it also seems we probably lost a big spring the same way. All the hooks were changed to new open eye siwash -so the split ring wasn't opened to install. Not sure-maybe the split rings should be changed out as well as the hooks. Never had this happen in 50 years of salmon fishing so I doubt it has anything to do with me!!

 

[Seafever]

SpringFever........some brands of split rings will get "sprung" faster than others....that is, if you look at the split ring up close it has a gap between the coils.

personally, I get this sometimes when I have to open the split ring up too far to get new hook on.

If this happens I throw them away. It needs to be so there is no gaps at all around the split ring and the split ring still has it's temper.

If there is a gap......the hook eye and/or swivel will sometimes "travel and unravel" from rotation etc. Then it pops off at the most crucial moment.

First thing I check is the condition/temper of the split ring.

Split rings are sold everywhere........but some are much better than others for holding power and wire diameter.

If the split-ring is "sprung" (with gaps)...and you use one of those Indiana spinners as well....the spinner can also work it's way around the loose gaps and space in a kaput split ring.

 

[spring fever]

SpringFever........some brands of split rings will get "sprung" faster than others....that is, if you look at the split ring up close it has a gap between the coils.

personally, I get this sometimes when I have to open the split ring up too far to get new hook on.

If this happens I throw them away. It needs to be so there is no gaps at all around the split ring and the split ring still has it's temper.

If there is a gap......the hook eye and/or swivel will sometimes "travel and unravel" from rotation etc. Then it pops off at the most crucial moment.

First thing I check is the condition/temper of the split ring.

Split rings are sold everywhere........but some are much better than others for holding power and wire diameter.

If the split-ring is "sprung" (with gaps)...and you use one of those Indiana spinners as well....the spinner can also work it's way around the loose gaps and space in a kaput split ring.

Exactly my point SF-I never opened these split rings which were on new coyote spoons-clipped the hooks off put on new open eye siwash and used them! I think the split rings they are putting on are the same quality as their hooks and from the same country!! I think they are such poor quality if you get a large coho which twists a lot they can "spring" these split rings and because the coyote is very thin metal will travel out of the split ring!! SF is right there are some rings that are better for holding power-these appear to be the bottom of the rung!!

 

[Seafever]

Typical corporate move these days.........move off shore to China, use labor that is dirt cheap and use components that are sub-standard....then ship it back to North America and sell it at the same price it was before they relocated.

All about profit.

But it will come back to bite them on the as* when people stop buying their cheap shoddy product.

I don't buy half the Coyote spoons I used to anymore......the patterns compared to the old USA-made ones are now a joke.

Sorry Rapala..or Luhr-Jensen...or whoever owns you........you may suck us experienced fishermen in once awhile.....but not for long.......once bitten , twice shy.

Save your Christmas-tree decorations for the noob weekend "Googans" who don't know any better........

( I didn't mean you, SpringFever......I know you are the farthest thing from a "Googan".)

 

[twogone]

In my humble opinion most spoons have a slightly better action when a swivel is added to the front. I got a nice Tyee in May (5 fingers) with a 'cookies & Cream' with an added swivel and another one two days ago (Little Qualicum) with an 'Irish Cream' with an added seivel. Condidering I've only fished for springs 4 days this year I'd say it's working for me. Cheers; twogone

 

[IronNoggin]

No...he was adamant I had to have a swivel inside the hoochy...regardless of the fact that there is one up by the flasher, which I told him.

I personally almost never use a swivel inside the hoochy because as you said there is one up by the flasher.

Every Commercial troller on this Coast runs a swivel attached to the flasher and a swivel inside the hoochie.
Old habits die hard, so I do the exact same in the sporting application. Meshes well with my single hook program for hoochies.

For spoons, each is designed slightly different. We pack literally hundreds on the troller. Some work better with the swivel up front, many do not. For those that don't, the reason the swivel is left off is the spoon will have a tendency to spin (airplane propeller) rather than wobble if a swivel is added. Easy enough to check boatside before sending them down...

Welded rings are a hell of a lot stronger than any split ring made! I would never swap a welded ring out for a split ring under any circumstances.

Cheers,
Nog

 

[c.askin]

split rings

Every Commercial troller on this Coast runs a swivel attached to the flasher and a swivel inside the hoochie.
Old habits die hard, so I do the exact same in the sporting application. Meshes well with my single hook program for hoochies.

For spoons, each is designed slightly different. We pack literally hundreds on the troller. Some work better with the swivel up front, many do not. For those that don't, the reason the swivel is left off is the spoon will have a tendency to spin (airplane propeller) rather than wobble if a swivel is added. Easy enough to check boatside before sending them down...

Welded rings are a hell of a lot stronger than any split ring made! I would never swap a welded ring out for a split ring under any circumstances.

Cheers,
Nog

just a thought.........has anyone ever tried soldering the split ring after installing it? I never have but I think it would add to the strenght....

 

[IronNoggin]

just a thought.........has anyone ever tried soldering the split ring after installing it? I never have but I think it would add to the strenght....

Welded rings are constructed of a milder steel than split rings. Don't know of a solder that would stick well to the stainless that most split rings are constructed of...

Nog

 

[rovingfisherman]

Another opinion....http://saltpatrol.com/resources/videos/
Scroll down to Coho Killer. Not sure why he doesn't do the same
for coyotes in his other video "rigging spoons". I do note than almost
every one I talk to or shows I see where they are running spoons, they
always change the factory hook out. I think for the shows it more about promoting
a particular hook manufacturer than anything else.

 

[Seafever]

The factory hooks tend to suck in many incidences.

I don't own a single spoon with a factory hook on it.

 

[Seafever]

Another thing........a lot of people do not want a spoon to rotate at all. They are adamant about leaving the welded ring on the front of the spoon.
All well and good.......but the flasher is always turning and if the leader is connected to a barrel swivel at the end of the flasher, some of this flasher roation will be transferred down the line eventually because a barrel swivel is not all that good at counteracting it.

If you want to minimize spoon rotation........put a P-line high speed swivel (of appopriate size and strength) where the leader connects to the flasher ....and even better...add a good quality Sampo as well.

The more you can cut flasher rotation out of the equation.....the less it will bother your spoon (if you are using a spoon with a flasher).