The 21 or so guides and expert anglers who had logs books this summer had requested a post season review of the results from their data. That meeting was held tonight at the Luxton Hall in Langford. There were about a dozen people there in total. Two from SFI, a creel survey interviewer, a DFO enforcement rep, Tom Cole from the SFAB and 5 or 6 other DFO staff. I was the only guide or log book holder to show up. These people gave up their evenings, most drove from out of town to hold this meeting. The hall also had to be paid for. Poor, very poor.
Post Season SFI Log Book Meeting
- Thread starter profisher
- Start date
No data = no fishing!!! BTW, they asked for the meeting, so they were obliged, then didn't bother showing or even indicate they wouldn't show up. Kinda like someone booking a charter then not showing up...not even a courtesy call to tell you they changed their mind. Turn down other work because you think you are booked, get up at 4am, drive to Sooke, get the boat ready to go and no one shows up. NICE!!
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
So what came out of the meeting?
They went over catch numbers, creel survey numbers, log book catch numbers, hours fished, which sub-areas were fished most, how many heads were turned in etc etc. They also explained the 3 level risk management strategy to be implemented soon. They explained what monitoring methods they may employ in an area after it is ranked by risk level for a fishery to be conducted. Some areas may see additional monitoring above what is done now, other areas with low risk may have that effort reduced. They also went over how many log books were handed out by area up and down the coast, how many lodges or operators were approached to participate by area.
cowieslabslayer
Member
Rollie
I've been guiding out of Nootka and other areas for a long time and have never been approached or asked to log info. I would be into doing it, how do I get involved or the lodge.
Let me know
I've been guiding out of Nootka and other areas for a long time and have never been approached or asked to log info. I would be into doing it, how do I get involved or the lodge.
Let me know
Be very careful here gentelman...
I want every guide/owner and lodge owner to be aware of two simple things here.
First, as a owner of a guide company that operates a marine tour operation on our coast, I run under the Transport Canada envelope and not anything to do with DFO.
Fishing or whale watching, etc it simply does not matter in the eyes of the law...period.
So with this being said it is DFO's responsibility to deal with all aspects that have to do with catch statistics, log books, creel surveys, etc with regards to the recreational sector.
DFO needs the number from all aspects of this sector no doubt but it is not legally up to any of us except individual licence holders that have to do what is asked under the licence mandate.
Simply put, If I fill out a log book it is only for two reasons...
I agree to take on some sort of responsibility for catch statistic results or at least agree that I should be a part of a seperate entitity or user group that works on behalf of DFO.
You believe that filling out the log book or creel survey is best so we each have past data/statitics that secures fishing rights in the future in case they seperate our user group through legislation or your simply a nice guy that loves working on behalf of DFO.
I agree that DFO has to find a way to collect more thorough catch statistics and creel data but I'm not sold on the fact that the responsibility lies with just certain individuals or groups.
Also...
DFO has set for these statistics and data to be released to the masses....trust me I've been shocked at what I've seen in meetings that include catch statistics from certain individuals/guides/companies and yes sometimes secrets are exposed.....
In the end, I want everyone that reads this to be aware that this is just my opinion and my experience.
It comes down to how you percieve DFO and what the mandate is. I personally feel that DFO is grasping at anything they can to get a handle on what has been neglected in the past and now it's looking at options.
DFO is asking us to donate our time,catch statistics daily, areas of your our catch, etc all to help them do thier job....period!
Well myself believes I might better be involved in a process that guarentees me future start and closure dates for halibut that match the commercial sector dates and strick enforcement on no fishing of any type in RCA closed areas...and this is just the beginning of my demands...
For the record, I particiate in creel surveys everyday last season and bang....season closed for halibut on the 5th of september.
I'm not sure I'll participate again until us as recreational fisherman get some proper guarantees from DFO in the future.
Once again this is just my opinion.
I want every guide/owner and lodge owner to be aware of two simple things here.
First, as a owner of a guide company that operates a marine tour operation on our coast, I run under the Transport Canada envelope and not anything to do with DFO.
Fishing or whale watching, etc it simply does not matter in the eyes of the law...period.
So with this being said it is DFO's responsibility to deal with all aspects that have to do with catch statistics, log books, creel surveys, etc with regards to the recreational sector.
DFO needs the number from all aspects of this sector no doubt but it is not legally up to any of us except individual licence holders that have to do what is asked under the licence mandate.
Simply put, If I fill out a log book it is only for two reasons...
I agree to take on some sort of responsibility for catch statistic results or at least agree that I should be a part of a seperate entitity or user group that works on behalf of DFO.
You believe that filling out the log book or creel survey is best so we each have past data/statitics that secures fishing rights in the future in case they seperate our user group through legislation or your simply a nice guy that loves working on behalf of DFO.
I agree that DFO has to find a way to collect more thorough catch statistics and creel data but I'm not sold on the fact that the responsibility lies with just certain individuals or groups.
Also...
DFO has set for these statistics and data to be released to the masses....trust me I've been shocked at what I've seen in meetings that include catch statistics from certain individuals/guides/companies and yes sometimes secrets are exposed.....
In the end, I want everyone that reads this to be aware that this is just my opinion and my experience.
It comes down to how you percieve DFO and what the mandate is. I personally feel that DFO is grasping at anything they can to get a handle on what has been neglected in the past and now it's looking at options.
DFO is asking us to donate our time,catch statistics daily, areas of your our catch, etc all to help them do thier job....period!
Well myself believes I might better be involved in a process that guarentees me future start and closure dates for halibut that match the commercial sector dates and strick enforcement on no fishing of any type in RCA closed areas...and this is just the beginning of my demands...
For the record, I particiate in creel surveys everyday last season and bang....season closed for halibut on the 5th of september.
I'm not sure I'll participate again until us as recreational fisherman get some proper guarantees from DFO in the future.
Once again this is just my opinion.
Derby, this was an invite only to the 21 log book holders from area 19/20. It comes down to this. If the data they collect by which ever means is accurate and a fishing plan that protects future fish stocks is implemented from that data...all is good. No matter which way the results go!!!!! If the data ends up being used for a political agenda I will be gone. BTW, it was our local SFAB chair Chris Bos who asked that these log books be kept. This was in response to what we felt were inaccurate Chinook catch figures in area 19/20 for Chinook. We felt the creel catches numbers were considerably to high. This was a way to have separate data to compare at seasons end with the creel numbers.
Derby
Crew Member
Thank You for that...Just find it dishearting when everyone is calling for more accurate accounting of ours catches & more involvement in our fisheries, then it's a bascally a no show...... then we burn DFO at the stake when they aren't doing what we want of them... Just my take..
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
Why area 19-20 only ?
confused on why they never showed up ??? sure theres a reason though..
Why the F%$&^ would they not just put a fricken Halibut recording log on the back of every tidal license , record, where, when ,
immediately when caught like Chinook or Ling , if needed , Private - Lodge - Guide check mark box ???
Creel Survey spot checks on licences , if ya get caught with a Hali un-written up , Fine them ???
easy data ????
seriously , what a joke ,
FD
confused on why they never showed up ??? sure theres a reason though..
Why the F%$&^ would they not just put a fricken Halibut recording log on the back of every tidal license , record, where, when ,
immediately when caught like Chinook or Ling , if needed , Private - Lodge - Guide check mark box ???
Creel Survey spot checks on licences , if ya get caught with a Hali un-written up , Fine them ???
easy data ????
seriously , what a joke ,
FD
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
# 2
Do the halibut recording on the back of ur licenses as discussed ,2nd , have a phone number attached on the license as well ,
call and record the catch within a set time limit ( a week say ) , let them know where ( area) , when it was caught ,
spot checks on licenses would be recorded , they now have a way to track the info if you never called it in , fines if not !!
they would give you a ref # once called in which you would eventually write beside that catch on your license !!
*** email perhaps set up as well ***
I think there could be some tweeks on this , just throwing ideas out there , fairly inexpensive to set-up
fd
Do the halibut recording on the back of ur licenses as discussed ,2nd , have a phone number attached on the license as well ,
call and record the catch within a set time limit ( a week say ) , let them know where ( area) , when it was caught ,
spot checks on licenses would be recorded , they now have a way to track the info if you never called it in , fines if not !!
they would give you a ref # once called in which you would eventually write beside that catch on your license !!
*** email perhaps set up as well ***
I think there could be some tweeks on this , just throwing ideas out there , fairly inexpensive to set-up
fd
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Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Richmake, I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say here. Is it that we should not have to do the work of DFO? Or DFO will somehow use this data against us? Or DFO will use this data to pit guides/lodges against rec. fishers? What are you specifically worried about?
IMO I figure the situation is like this. DFO currently does not have the resources to collect adequate rec. sector catch data for salmon and especially halibut. Over the next 3 years DFO is facing massive cutbacks in funding (i.e."Budget cuts at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans are making fishermen queasy. The department expects to complete a $56.8-million budget-cutting plan by 2014. Officials warned that the department is winding down or scrapping "non-core programs.")
You can bet that more $ for collecting sportfishing catch numbers will not be in the plan. At the same time sportfishers will be left facing increasing fishing restrictions due to things like; endangered Fraser River Chinook runs, poor ocean survival rates due to ongoing climate change, ongoing bycatch issues in Alaska, the emerging dietary needs of South Island Orcas, ongoing FN rights and emerging new FN commercial sales agreements, possible Salmon ISA virus spreading/mutating, lack of enforcement of fishing regs and habitat destruction, fish farm lice/pollution issues, the list goes on....
The SFAB meetings I have attending both the SFAB Board and the DFO reps make it very clear that in the face of a lack of adeqaute rec. catch data the DFO will rule in the favour of conservation at the expense of the rec. sector. While I agree with you in principle that it is wrong that citizens have to collect this data, but if DFO can't/won't collect it develop reasonable fishing regs who will?
Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
X2.................. what Derby said
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
I agree with you Rollie, very disappointing. What do you think about a program for rec. sportfisher who volunteer to keep a log book and submit this data at the end of the year to help out this cause?
I'm an advocate of everyone having to file their catch data from their licenses every year. A simple phone in system just like being a Visa merchant. First question english or french, push "1 for english, enter the area you fished in #20, enter how many Chinook you caught in that area etc etc...simple. DFO is reluctant to do this because it is non-verifiable data by persons who may not know enough to be reporting catches. Someone could simply report bogus or inflated catches or under report to throw off the counts. Just depends who uou are and what your motive is. The log book program with guides or so called expert fishermen eliminates a very high percentage of miscounts due to id-ing fish species incorrectly. I still think reporting all catch data from licenses is a good idea and the counts could be used simply as another check and balance against the creel and log book data.
BTW I also made it clear at the meeting that it should be mandatory for every guide/lodge to keep an accurate catch log and turn it end at the end of each season. The commercial guys keep catch logs. Guides and lodges make profits off catching the same fish the commercial guys do. If you want to earn a profit off a common property resource then there should be some conditions. Not much of a hardship and very accurate data for the guys who need it.
D
DHA
Guest
X 1 million what profisher is stating. Period!
Very sad...if the entities who call for the meeting don't share the effort and afford the time and show. Here we all cry and complain about DFO and their efforts to give us the time to share our concerns, but then to waist these peoples time and effort is absolutely ******!
I don't want to hear another bitchin' pathetic ******** complaint from any south Island guides in the future...this is complete and utter ******** that you could not take a few hours out of your day to follow through with your request.
DFO is not my friend, but what you people have done has shared a disregard to the sport fishery. We can't afford this kind of ******** in any respect to our fishery. If you call it, you had better ******* show up to help share your concerns at the meeting that you have requested.
Sad, very, f-ing sad.
I am not happy at all...if I instigate or say that I want something, then I am there...quit wasting valuable resources that we can not afford to loose track of!
DHA. - TOTALLY Dis-a-*******-pointed!
Very sad...if the entities who call for the meeting don't share the effort and afford the time and show. Here we all cry and complain about DFO and their efforts to give us the time to share our concerns, but then to waist these peoples time and effort is absolutely ******!
I don't want to hear another bitchin' pathetic ******** complaint from any south Island guides in the future...this is complete and utter ******** that you could not take a few hours out of your day to follow through with your request.
DFO is not my friend, but what you people have done has shared a disregard to the sport fishery. We can't afford this kind of ******** in any respect to our fishery. If you call it, you had better ******* show up to help share your concerns at the meeting that you have requested.
Sad, very, f-ing sad.
I am not happy at all...if I instigate or say that I want something, then I am there...quit wasting valuable resources that we can not afford to loose track of!
DHA. - TOTALLY Dis-a-*******-pointed!
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the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
Profisher
I was thinkin just Halibut called in for now , seems its the one needing attention the most. If a Sporty cant be responsible enuff to enter a few prompts to catch and record his catch , he shouldn't have a license. English / French ,,,thats f'n funny....
if a Lodge or a Guide outfit cant show there customers how to do this , then they shouldn't be able to retain there catch... keep everyone honest
again , just an idea , nothing else seems to be working,
same ole crap every year , alotta whiners , no one doing anything..
letters did $hit...
m2b
FD
I was thinkin just Halibut called in for now , seems its the one needing attention the most. If a Sporty cant be responsible enuff to enter a few prompts to catch and record his catch , he shouldn't have a license. English / French ,,,thats f'n funny....
if a Lodge or a Guide outfit cant show there customers how to do this , then they shouldn't be able to retain there catch... keep everyone honest
again , just an idea , nothing else seems to be working,
same ole crap every year , alotta whiners , no one doing anything..
letters did $hit...
m2b
FD
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
I agree with you Profisher and DHA. The lack of turnout just shows DFO that there is a lack of enough of committment in our sector to make the postive changes we need - so why should they bother much to listen to what we say. I sure hope this situation changes soon.
Fog Ducker, I agree with you, record halibut and an annual 10 fish limit. No ones needs more then 10 halibut per season under the quota system or any other system we may end up with in the future. I still hear guys bragging about getting 50 plus halibut for the season. WTF are you doing with it all?
