the fishing restrictions have NOTHING to do with the high returns. educate yourself
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Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Yup it is all about politics and how the party in power can stay in power by appeasing their party base and influential lobby groups. Science, data and logical management is only referenced when it coincides with what the politicians what, otherwise it is ignored. 
Alex_c
Well-Known Member
You don't think hundreds of boats at the Fraser mouth, and hundreds more along its banks in the Fraser Valley hammering Chinook every day during the peak of the run doesn't have an effect on their numbers? Obviously other factors are at play (as stated in the report) but sporties are lying to themselves if they don’t think they have any impact on numbers. I suppose it comes down to whether or not you think you’re entitled to harvest fish because they are “yours”. Ultimately I’m in the camp that fishing is a privilege, and not a right. You don’t have the right to log any crown land or drop a sluice in any river, so in my opinion, fish are also a resource and should be managed accordingly.
Now, clearly that resource has been poorly managed, which is why we’re having this discussion to begin with. I do agree that things are political, and that things could be managed more equitably for all user groups. The fact of the matter is that sporties have the least economic and political clout, and ultimately money rules all and we’re at the back of the line when it comes to catch allocation. Would I love it if commercial fisheries took a back seat to sporties? Absolutely. But that’s because as a sportie, that’s what affects me. To think that any political party will enact legislation that achieves this is a pipe dream. I’m not touching the FN fishery issue with a ten foot pole, and neither will any politician.
So where does that leave us? Well, I’m the type of person who focuses on things I can change and accepts those that are out of my control. Vote in every election, and volunteer your time to groups like the SFI who are doing great work. I will say that if you think team red or team blue is going to make any difference, well to keep this discussion respectful, I disagree. Harper and Trudeau both cut funding to the DFO, and an underfunded, broken regulator almost always ends up in regulatory capture which serves economic interests (commercial fisheries) first and foremost. The Liberal’s influence from ENGO’s is just window dressing. Make no mistake that they serve the economic powers in this country first and foremost, leaving the electorate (guys like you and I) arguing about what team we’re on while they rob us blind and manage our resources down to nothing. I think it’s important to address loss of jobs and livelihoods, but without the resource all those jobs will be gone forever. I’m sure many here will disagree, and that’s fine. I’m just a guy with an internet connection. More than willing to listen and change my opinions if presented with credible evidence and arguments.
Alex_c
Well-Known Member
Harrison and Thompson fish all have to run the gauntlet of the Lower Fraser and Fraser mouth.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
the amount of fish being caught in area 29/28 by rec fluctuates depending on year between 3k to 10k, If i remember correctly some of the more recent years because fishing has been so good our catch has been higher than previous years before the restrictions, Coast wide i believe rec catch has stayed almost the same effort has just moved around. 2020 is low, covid
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Alex_c
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the data. Looks like 2021 is also well below the 5 yr average for 28/29, most likely also due to covid. Will be interesting to see data for 2023
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Its going to be high because its on the 2015, 2019, 2023 cycle that has decent returns
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Too funny
Aces
Well-Known Member
Those fish are going to get harvested one way or another. Don’t fool yourself
Alex_c
Well-Known Member
Might as well just give up and do nothing and say f*ck it then! Weak.
fish brain
Crew Member
Chinook salmon stocks in BC – 2024
February 12, 2024/What is the state of Chinook salmon stocks in BC Canada in 2024?
If you are a sport fisherman its pretty good.
Could there be improvement? Yes.
But 2023 media headlines didn’t talk about any larger than expected Chinook salmon runs around Vancouver Island.
If you read the news or listen to an NGO “scientist” or DFO scientist he will likely say its not good.
NGO’s have been fighting for quite a few years to get salmon fishing shut down. Unfortunately Canada has a broken system for fisheries management that isn’t getting any better.
That doesn’t mean that they get everything wrong or the organization isn’t needed.
But for DFO to improve, I think the system hierarchy of how decisions are made needs to change.
First, you can see the problems that will likely occur given this chain of command.
If you ask the Governor in Council what he knows about Chinook salmon fishing on the west coast of British Columbia or Alaska, he probably doesn’t have a degree in Chinook salmon biology. The same can be said about the Minister of Environment & Climate Change as well as yes, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.
All 3 positions are appointed positions where each person does not have a sufficient vested interest in making the right decision for the stakeholders.
Even if you get someone with some knowledge of Chinook salmon fishing and biology, you still have to get past personal bias, lack of knowledge, and DFO politics. Like many government positions, it is often much easier to pass the buck to the next guy and when an opportunity is given to do so, human nature generally takes over.
So the recommendation given passes through 3 decision makers that don’t have a background in Chinook biology or preserving or enhancing salmon sustainability.
It may be a reason why draggers are still allowed to rape the ocean floor.
You have have seen the headline about 28,000 Chinook salmon discarded as by catch by trawlers.
Draggers and trawlers are the same to the media apparently even thought the methods of catching are entirely different.
This is my perspective as a sport fisherman who lives and breaths learning about salmon enhancement and biology as well as salmon fishing. To be very clear, I run a sport fishing business and have a vested interested in keeping salmon stocks strong. I think to any observer looking at DFO communication, it is quite obvious why the system is broken.
Below is the current DFO assessment map of southern BC Chinooks.
Is this accurate?
I would argue that it paints an untrue and bleak picture that has some large gaps.
I have been running a fishing charter from Ucluelet since 2004 and have been running 4-7 boats since 2008. We have a 50lbs a day guarantee on most of our 3 day package trips which includes vacuum packing and freezing. I can tell you that our numbers are getting better the past few years.
I say this because it provides data on how much was taken home by our guests and is a data point.
But there is also data from DFO that shows that Barkley Sound had approx 200K plus Chinook salmon returning in 2023.
A normal year is 80-90K.
Over the past 5 years the returns have been over 140K.
Since 2015 our fishing during August time frame close to shore has been very good.
So why is our area still considered threatened?
Yes, again it is nuanced.
There are some smaller rivers and creeks inside Barkley Sound that haven’t recovered like in years past.
But should the map show the whole area as threatened?
Below is a graph showing what the targets for Chinook salmon were for the Cowichan, Harrison and Lower Shuswap.
All rivers surpassed the expectations but 2-6x. Did you hear any news stories?
We should be celebrating right?
No, instead we are told that the whales are starving and more restrictions might be necessary.
Political narratives are good motivations to appease altruistic NGO’s and a news media getting large funds to try and show there there are big problems that need be addressed. They need people to tune into what they are selling whether true or not.
I do think that sometimes restrictions are necessary. But I do think there is a lot of misinformation about Chinook salmon carried for convenient political narratives.
Below is the official approach by DFO.
So the big takeaway is that DFO uses the precautionary approach which from my perspective as a sport fisherman who also knows a bit of history means that they generally don’t do anything proactive.
So that means no rebuilding rivers or habit.
The rebuilding is left to volunteers who are generally sport fisherman who have a vested interest in keeping salmon stocks strong and often love salmon.
Its often volunteers who swim the rivers and do survey data to find the numbers of fry needed to make good surveys. Its not the people that complain the loudest.
Solutions
Generally if you want something changed you have to do something. NGO’s are trying to get sport fishing shut down. They do that by writing articles about what ever they can to help their cause.DFO also often has an agenda that is led from the top and the current federal government is biased towards limiting sport fishing. That change may be a year or two out.
But the issues with DFO didn’t just start in 2015 but have been there for a long time.
I have heard of people quitting DFo because they didn’t feel like the organization really cared about actual science. Instead it is run by Ottawa which is a 4 hour flight from BC. Since the sport fishing population size is very small, Ottawa maybe isn’t too concerned with tiny numbers of BC votes .
But you have heard the saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, right?
So please start getting involved and don’t be afraid to email your MLA.
You don’t have to be a scientist. You can just talk about the latest data coming from DFO and ask why regulations are going backwards when stocks are increasing over the past 5 years.
You can also ask for all hatchery Chinook and Coho to have their fins clipped like is done in the USA. We have the technology to do it.
More time and money is probably spent on meetings in 4 star hotels talking over proposals by high paid government officials than could be spent working from a scientific approach and clipping salmon.
Time is of the essence.
There is a possibility that 1 mile off Port Renfrew will be shut down for the 2024 season. From April 1 to July 15 there is no retention for Chinook salmon in the Strait of Georgia.
Proposals have been put forward that would preserve the runs while still allowing at least hatchery retention of Chinook.
I hope you can get involved and help.
We are involved in raising money for volunteer run hatcheries like the Thorton Creek hatchery in Ucluelet. But that is just us. We need as many people to get involved as possible.
Find a hatchery close to you. If we were all concerned about rebuilding salmon stocks I think we would have a very good outcome.
Story of someone determined for salmon enhancement:
I spent my high school years in Qualicum Bay and watched someone not born in this country become very determined to bring back the Cutthroat trout. He loved fishing for them and wanted to see more in the creek and along the shoreline.But in order to get more cutthroat trout he discovered pink salmon were necessary.
Ken Kirkby had to fight all sorts of government bureaucracy and government scientists to be allowed to build a volunteer run hatchery. He sold his paintings at a local coffee shop to raise money. He had very little resources to his name. The DFO scientists told him it was impossible.
But within a few years he had between 60K -120K Pink salmon returning to Nile creek. Its such a small creek most of the year fish can’t swim up. Before he started the return was almost nil.
But he was determined. Let’s follow in his footsteps. Let’s do something big and find ways to make a difference.
If you want to listen to his story it is here:
So where ever you are I hope this inspires you to get involved so we become action takers for proactive salmon enhancement instead of deflated from the the news!
Chinook salmon numbers BC coast 2024 - Assessing DFO decisions
Chinook salmon numbers on the BC coast are mostly good and improving. So why is the DFO and media narrative biased otherwise?
www.salmonfishingnow.com
Aces
Well-Known Member
You’re obviously new to all this.
searun
Well-Known Member
The stock assessment data has been demonstrating a continued improvement over the so called crisis days of 2018. Abundance cycles are normal. We have seen many oh my god bad returns, only to be followed by where did all those fish come from rebounds. The sky ain't falling, but these boom/bust cycles require us to adjust harvest to make fisheries sustainable. The only problem now is the crisis culture the ENGO's have created have removed DFO's ability to manage to abundance.
Looking at the recent 2023 return data, its very clear that many indicator stocks are well above escapement targets...and yet, I still go to meetings hearing there is a Chinook crisis, and whales are starving. If the whales can't find food when there are escapements into the river returns of Fraser 4-1's at 627,000 fish to the spawning grounds, then someone needs to invest in eye glasses for the whales. And there's plenty of fish for FN's FSC, recreational and commercial fishery interests too.
Looking at the recent 2023 return data, its very clear that many indicator stocks are well above escapement targets...and yet, I still go to meetings hearing there is a Chinook crisis, and whales are starving. If the whales can't find food when there are escapements into the river returns of Fraser 4-1's at 627,000 fish to the spawning grounds, then someone needs to invest in eye glasses for the whales. And there's plenty of fish for FN's FSC, recreational and commercial fishery interests too.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Derby
Crew Member
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