New Halibut Regulations Update

[stones93]

Wow! This issue and thread are crazy. This is just my perspective from a guy who goes hali fishing once a year up in the Queen Charlottes. If I know that I can only keep a tiny chicken as a second hali, the other on better be pretty F$%ing big! Last year I released a 100+lb hali, and only kept the 45. (on salmon gear at 12 pulls!) This year I would be tempted (even though I have a strong desire for conservation) to keep that 100lb. Last year I knew that after the 45, I could catch another decent sized one the next day.....not any more I think these rules to EXTEND the season are bad conservation measures. They should have imposed a MAXIMUM size on both instead. And this should apply to the commercial fleet too! This would seem like a no brainer to me if you wanted more breeders and better conservation? At this stage of the Halibut population, I think conservation should usurp financial considerations of all the charters AND commercial fleet. The new rules are just a band aid on a sinking ship.

I do not profess to have the knowledge of the majority here. This is just one individual fishermans un-educated thoughts after reading this thread.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Now if you are concerned with the 30 lb fish getting released only to die, how about using some ethics out there? Just an idea. Don't worry about the other guy, nothing you can do there, worry about doing the right thing and easing up on the meat greed. It's not all about filling the freezer.

one of the smartest posts in this whole thread. If the slot is such a problem for you, just go out and catch your 1 big fish and move on to other species. Nobody is saying you have to wade through fish to find that 15lb the next day, if its so objectionable to you then don't do it.

The average angler is tickled pink if he catches any halibut, let alone worrying about if he should release a 45lb and wait for a 100lb. Give your head a shake - that 45lb is coming in the boat, they guys will hoot and holler, celebrate with a beer and be glad they are still allowed to fish.

 

[chris73]

Wow! This issue and thread are crazy. This is just my perspective from a guy who goes hali fishing once a year up in the Queen Charlottes. If I know that I can only keep a tiny chicken as a second hali, the other on better be pretty F$%ing big! Last year I released a 100+lb hali, and only kept the 45. (on salmon gear at 12 pulls!) This year I would be tempted (even though I have a strong desire for conservation) to keep that 100lb. Last year I knew that after the 45, I could catch another decent sized one the next day.....not any more I think these rules to EXTEND the season are bad conservation measures. They should have imposed a MAXIMUM size on both instead. And this should apply to the commercial fleet too! This would seem like a no brainer to me if you wanted more breeders and better conservation? At this stage of the Halibut population, I think conservation should usurp financial considerations of all the charters AND commercial fleet. The new rules are just a band aid on a sinking ship.

I do not profess to have the knowledge of the majority here. This is just one individual fishermans un-educated thoughts after reading this thread.

My friend, rest assured that conservation is NOT at issue here.

 

[lorneparker1]

one of the smartest posts in this whole thread. If the slot is such a problem for you, just go out and catch your 1 big fish and move on to other species. Nobody is saying you have to wade through fish to find that 15lb the next day, if its so objectionable to you then don't do it.

The average angler is tickled pink if he catches any halibut, let alone worrying about if he should release a 45lb and wait for a 100lb. Give your head a shake - that 45lb is coming in the boat, they guys will hoot and holler, celebrate with a beer and be glad they are still allowed to fish.

Frick if that's the case lets just go to a 1 to 1! Sweet!

 

[Charlie]

First question - does it not seem curious that this imposed regulation did not come with any guarantee of an extended season or even an explanation of what effect on the season, both in number of extra weeks or reduced poundage it will likely have from either DFO of SFAB? Why has no one seen any numbers or how this will be monitored and tallied through the season to be effective? I read a lot of talk on this board about how great this is because of the extended season as if it's fact when, not only is it not fact, not only has it not been explained or shown to have a measurable effect by anyone, but it actually defies the logic of the actual numbers ... so let's look at those numbers.

There is NO WAY DFO is going to guarantee anything. If you were to copy the tables from the DFO 2011 report to IPHC, but them on a spread sheet and start playing with those number using them as a model for 2012. Everything the same as last year, AND if I figured it right... you will find that 15 pound slot limit will reduce the catch by approximaely 136,000 pounds. Using the average weight of 18 pounds (that is for both the over and under), with a daily catch rate averaging 14,500 pounds; the slot limit will extend the season by a whopping NINE (9) "DAYS"!

 

[Islandgirl]

There is NO WAY DFO is going to guarantee anything. If you were to copy the tables from the DFO 2011 report to IPHC, but them on a spread sheet and start playing with those number using them as a model for 2012. Everything the same as last year, AND if I figured it right... you will find that 15 pound slot limit will reduce the catch by approximaely 136,000 pounds. Using the average weight of 18 pounds (that is for both the over and under), with a daily catch rate averaging 14,500 pounds; the slot limit will extend the season by a whopping NINE (9) "DAYS"!

Thanks Charlie for the numbers.
I still do not understand why the gifting of a guides catch is allowed if we need to stay within the numbers?

Lets say 500 guides on the coast, average 100 days of fishing, and they take a hali to gift to their client every day.
Using DFOs average size of fish that is an extra 900 000 lbs of our catch (TAC)
This alone would have added 62 extra days to the season based on a daily catch of 14 500lbs.

 

[gilwell]

im just an average joe, dont even own a boat right now. Yes I pay for a guided trip every year. I see no problem with these new rules... and yes I`m a paying guest at diffrent lodges!

I would be happy if you were just alowed 1.

The world has turned to greed, always wanting more.

Tell you guides posting here, some will never get my business.... others I`m looking into for future trips.

 

[godeep]

I remember reading somewhere that the average size for BC was 88 cm. The average size for fish under the 88cm was 75cm and average size for fish over 88cm was 99cm. I think it is a little more than simple math and with the varibles such as weather, guided and unguided anglers, and 1 day versus multidayday trips it is best guess complicated math. We can only hope that from the last 4 years of data that it is somewhat of an educated guess.
It is best guess science but for now that is the only information we have and as we move forward many of the variables will have better understanding and numbers. Nothing is ever guaranteed but best guess is, we will make it through August and into the fall sometime.

 

[Jencourt]

I am just a short little fat man that loves to fish. here is what I think!

I think this whole thing has spawned some very honest and real questions. I feel they need to be addressed and that they will in fact receive that attention. I also think it has been a platform for some understandable but miss directed frustration.
Either way it is what it is.

I will ask all of you to step back and ask yourself one question.

What would make all of this ok?

For me and I promise most everyone else the answer will be the same as it was last year wen we all stared writing letters and going to information meetings ect.I also think it will be the same for those who have been at this for a lot longer than that. If we want to ensure sport fishing for future generations then change is needed.

I say lets get back to work.

 

[Jockey]

What a gong show. They should have just made it 1/1 or left it at 1/2 this slot limit is silly and may extend the season a few days but it isn't really going to help anything. I just hope the season lasts to September again longer would be nice but at least make it to September. If it gets shut down in August people will be calling for an even later opening day next year as some already are.

 

[juandesooka]

Hey godeep just go the the websites the guides post. Look at the pics and see how many practice conservation,quantity over quality. Some may say it is the experience some may say it is for the fish, the pics will tell. When it is hard to see the dock because there are so many fish on the, dock kinda says it all. But remember it is up to the client in the end.

That's a good point Jackel. Whether you're drifting the bank filling the boat with pancakes, or if you're at anchor all day waiting for one big one ... and then possibly releasing it anyway (as I know some people do, even if the regs say they didn't have to).

There's something to be said for the fun of the fishing experience, regardless of bringing home the meat. And that may be a subtle or less-than-subtle shift that will have to happen in guided fishing around here, if the conservation and ecology trends continue the way they seem to be going -- having to sell harder on the FUN of it, rather than on the full coolers. And that may be a tough sell, some people won't sign on just for the reel good time.

But anyways, back to guides around here (JDF), I'm not sure how much this change will affect their day plans. Seems common for a multi day charter to chase salmon on day 1, with halibut as lucky by-catch or maybe target the chickens for a little while. Then day 2 sit at anchor to try to find a bigger halibut. So, many people go home with one chicken and, if they are lucky, something a little bigger -- reg will make no difference in these cases. Though I'm sure it's different elsewhere.

 

[Fishmyster]

Hi Jackel, looking for some intelegent discussion of what you are sudgesting here. I have two questions for you.
1. Please explain how many pounds of TAC you think that are given to guests from guides every year?
2. I have heard the sudgestion before of no fish for guides before. As it did happen in alaska I always felt like there would have to be a very poor relationship between fishermen for that to ever be implemented. The only way I ever get to keep halibut personaly is by throwing the odd one in the cooler for myself. Buy the time I get to fish halibut it's late september and the fishing can be tough to catch then. Your sudgestion would screw my chances for me to get my usual family fish. My second question is: How was your relationship with all the other guides where you used to work? I don't want to make this personal but that would be a very personaly effected regulation to take.
Before we cheers each other with beer like implied on our last chat I'ld like to discuss this topic now and see just how well we would get along while having a beer.
Ken

Good on you Casper, yes the internet what a great tool, they say to type a response, save it over night and reread it then make changes and post, we are more often than not to quick with pen and pencil, but when it comes down to it, we are all passionate about this issue. I was thinking the same thing about a later opening, weather plays havoc early on, makes safety an issue and as everyone is saying this changes gives everyone a chance to come and fish in the summer. Well the early opening only benefits locals and not all the other CANADIANS. Might want to think about adding in the clause that Alaska did about guides not keeping their fish on a guided charter, I know it is a common practice to gift their fish to clients and now with the slot a way for the client to get more fish on a one day, one fish a day charter.

 

[godeep]

Hey Jackel, I would think not many guides would have pictures of a bunch of dudes just hanging out at the dock. The expectation is what sells the trip. It is a lot less work when you only have to clean a few rather than a bunch so if the guests is happy with just a few the guide is trice as happy.
Every one has different reason for fishing and as long as you are within the regulations and the fish is going to be consumed no fisher should ever feel shamed for keeping a limit. Same can be said for hunting, some hunt for dinner animals and some hunt for trophy's. Many anglers only get the chance to fish a couple of days of the year and what may look like a lot of fish to some is a mere drop in the bucket for many of the sports that have unlimited access to the resource.
Down the road if every can agree to play nice and work together we could see a Halibut stamp and maybe even yearly limits. (probably just end in a big shouting match) Both are great ideas, but both will take a lot of time to implement and great effort for all involved. An even better idea would be use revenue from the stamp to secure quota, even if after the governments cut we will still get a little bit every year.

 

[lorneparker1]

Great post Godeep. What you are saying makes alot of sense.

However, I think its safe to say for me anyway, When i go hunting by myself or fishing for that matter, I go for the experience because i love it!! And killing something is a bonus. However, when i shell out 1000's for a guide(which i do every year and will again this year!) I do that to put fish in the tub ( my boat is not exactly off shore worthy). It would be no different then if I paid 10k to hire an outfitter for sheep i sure as hell would hope to kill one. I could expereince the top of a mountain in sheep country for much less.

 

[bcboy]

I personally think we need some regulations to STOP the gifting of fish from guides to clients, lets face it, the only reason guides are "gifting" clients with fish is because the clients are filling the guides wallets. There seems to be a conflict...

 

[elnino54]

As a Canadian from outside BC, I feel very disappointed by the introduction of the slot size for Halibut. I know I'm only able to make one trip out to the coast fishing this year, so I'm pretty much limited to a max of two Hali's for the year (with any luck). If I happen to catch a 20 lber, it puts me in a bit of a dillema. Do I keep it, hoping I'll catch a smaller one or do I release it hoping for a larger one ? I could easily screw myself if I released it and don't catch another.....

If this was truely about conservation, an annual limit per individual would make much more sense, along with mandatory recording on your license and online registration of your catch within 7 days. The collosal wasting of time and money doing half-assed creel surveys would be a thing of the past, and a much more meaningful and accurate monitoring of receational Halibut catch could take place.

I was fortunate enough last year to have a successful trip out to the coast with my father and his good friend. We did catch 5 Halis in our week long trip, but none were under the slot size...........and they were the only ones we caught..

 

[Charlie]

Thanks Charlie for the numbers.
I still do not understand why the gifting of a guides catch is allowed if we need to stay within the numbers?

Lets say 500 guides on the coast, average 100 days of fishing, and they take a hali to gift to their client every day.
Using DFOs average size of fish that is an extra 900 000 lbs of our catch (TAC)
This alone would have added 62 extra days to the season based on a daily catch of 14 500lbs.

I have actually been known to gift myself. It is called sharing the catch and dividing equally. I also doubt very seriously, if one could even get the actual number of “gifted” it would NOT be near that figure – that is almost your entire TAC.

The number of halibut and weight actually changes per month. Those numbers I used are from the average catch in August and September only and “guestimating” based on DFO “guestimating” in their IPHC report for 2011. Depending on exactly which number you want to use, the average weight for the total of Area 2B was 17.9 pounds for the year.

Again, the biggest problem is those “estimates (guestimates)” of halibut catches from those “overflights” and “trailer counts.” A prime example is I just added the total catch and weights for Areas 3/4, 21/121, 25/125, 26/126, and 27/127. Those areas alone total 31,350 halibut “estimated,” representing 642,008 pounds of your total TAC. (blessed is Ecell!) I fish those areas and haven’t personally provided any Creel information for YEARS! What most don’t realize is Creel Surveyors actually target the “guides.” Then there is some “logbook” collected from a few participating lodges in those areas. DFO actually states both of that in their report. Here is the BIG problem… the small amount of numbers collected is coming from “pros” who know how to catch halibut, while the average sport angler who doesn't know how or catch those big halibut are getting completely ignored, completely. Then DFO does an overflight counting all sport boats who may or may not even be halibut fishing. Add that to the double count of guided boats, add in the small amount of logbook information, then count some trailers. Yep, DFO takes of that small amount of information from the “pro” and lodges and applies those numbers to ALL boats counted in those overflights. Any “average” angler, who actually fishes those areas like myself (who seldom even targets halibut) knows how many guided verses non-guided there really is would have to agree - That is some really, really, awfully “BAD” guessing! If DFO was to just get some accurate information (say like in Area 1) that would reduce the number and weight of halibut caught just in those areas listed and your "estimated" TAC issues would probably go away!

FYI... an annual limit would help in any conservation issues, which there is not a conservation at this time. The biomass in Area 2B is fine - it is just small. It will NOT help any TAC issue, what-so-ever!

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Jackel, we'd probably fall under the category you are talking about. However, we always stay within legal limits and ask how many our guests need to eat for the year, if they say they know they'll eat all their legal limits then that's what we catch. How is that bad? Canadian family / individual catching what they are allowed to. Once in awhile I'll even reel in a halibut that I put towards my "university fund" in the sense that I bring it out to Ottawa and eat salmon and halibut once a week...but I don't gift fish to anyone. Any guide who says he has pictures with tons of fish but doesn't want to put them on the site as he only wants to promote "fun" and not fish is either a ) Full of **** and doesn't catch that many fish or b) a horrible businessman and marketer. May not make the most friends from this post, but its just the truth, and that's something I never walk around or shy away from.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Very well said Charlie...they definitely do target the guides, even in our area that is quite obvious...not sure how much guide information they will get this year though.

 

[Fishmyster]

bcboy, Are you a guide and this is why and what you do with your fish? I frequently gift fish to friends and others that I share the warffing facillity with. Like Charlie does I share with others. What causes you to have the opinion of guide greed? Do you know some?

I personally think we need some regulations to STOP the gifting of fish from guides to clients, lets face it, the only reason guides are "gifting" clients with fish is because the clients are filling the guides wallets. There seems to be a conflict...