N.S. fish farm rejected: risk to wild salmon.

[agentaqua]

CK, will you admit that collusion between industry and government has and is occurring? Do you think that anyone who suggests collusion is occurring is a 'radical' as Joe Oliver would like to label them?

Would you agree that the cigarette industry was/is in collusion with gov't for decades despite the deadly consequences of these actions?

Would you agree that oil & gas industry was/is in collusion with gov't in working to derail any sort of advancement in tech or science that didn't/doesn't work in it's favour?

Would you agree that the chemical/pesticide industry was/is in collusion with gov't despite the scientific evidence to suggest that CFC's and agent orange and toxic pesticides are really, really bad for us?

Would you agree that each of these industries worked very hard to suppress science and pay-off (through direct and indirect means) gov't to allow the status quo to remain so?

Do you not see any similarities with the above examples and what the open-net pen fish farming industry is doing now? Why did the fish farming industry feel the need to hire Hill & Knowlton to 'help' them out? This is the same company that was hired to deal with 'inconveniences' such as the exxon valdez spill, the backlash against the cigarette industry, the 'global warming hoax', that little thing at Tianamen sq .... the list goes on.

I realize that you are not here to answer these questions in a meaningful manner but rather to use the same strategies that Hill & Knowlton are paid millions of dollars to do by industry, which is to delay, deflect, and spin the argument in any way so long as it takes the attention away from the actual issues. Like many on this forum, I am well aware of these tactics that have worked well for the industries listed above... at least until the public consensus finally was reached only after untold devastation, death and financial messes to be paid for by the public. I am not an 'anti-industry' person by any stretch of the imagination. I want industry in BC and throughout the world that is sustainable and accountable for its actions. The current model used by your industry does NOT meet my criteria in it's current form.

Even if CK will never admit it - here is some background to the lobbying, collusion and corruption prevalent within Ottawa and the federal government and explains some of the reason why the feds defend, obfuscate and outright lie about open net-cage fish farming, pipelines and other issues. From:
http://airspace.bc.ca/news-topmenu-29/230-macdonald-laurier

What is the Macdonald-Laurier Institute?

Category: Latest Published on Thursday, 18 April 2013 09:18

On March 30, the Vancouver Sun published this article: Tobacco smuggling jeopardizes border traffic. This is the first sentence: "Because keeping the border open and goods flowing with our American neighbours is practically the definition of Canada's economic self-interest, anything that attracts the unfavourable attention of Washington to our border is to be avoided at all costs."

Now, that's the way to get the reader's attention: something is going on that might interfere with your ability to make those trips to Bellingham to get gallon jugs of milk and high-quality, low-cost shoes at Big 5.

What the article is about is the smuggling of cigarettes from Canada into the United States. It was written by Brian Lee Crowley, who is identified as the managing director of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.

This deserves further scrutiny. "Macdonald-Laurier Institute": named after two of Canada's most famous prime ministers. That sounds important. (Of course, if I named my cats "Sir John A." and "Sir Wilfrid", that wouldn't make them important.) However, the use of the word "institute" should be a red flag for any student of Postmedia publications. That's because the associate editor of the Sun, Fazil Mihlar, was a "fellow" of the Fraser Institute prior to joining Postmedia. This is the Fraser Institute that takes money from the Koch brothers and ExxonMobil, and uses it to champion climate change denial. They also put out an annual ranking of British Columbia high schools, which is reported as "news" by the Sun, The Province, and CKNW without any questions raised about its accuracy or usefulness.

So, what is this "Macdonald-Laurier Institute"? It was characterized by Donald Gutstein of The Tyee as a "key accomplice to Tories in their assaults on truth."

Crowley, author of the Sun piece, believes that the tar sands, fracking, and fish farms are good things. The institute doesn't reveal who funds them, so we don't know who (other than Peter Munk of Barrick Gold) is paying for their opinions.

We do know that one of their directors is Purdy Crawford, who was the CEO of Imasco from 1985 to 2000. Imasco was a holding company whose assets included Imperial Tobacco, the purveyors of Player's, Du Maurier, and Matinee cigarettes.

Crawford would be a good resource for Crowley on the subject of cigarette smuggling. During Crawford's watch at Imasco, Imperial Tobacco was selling 6 billion cigarettes a year in the United States; this was 24% of their sales. No, people in the US were not switching from Marlboro to Player's in significant numbers. These cigarettes were shipped to warehouses in the US, then sold to smugglers, who illegally brought the cigarettes back into Canada. This activity is documented in Imperial Tobacco internal memos. Crawford appears on-camera in this CBC News story aired February 1, 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsvJjOCDT9s

So, why does the Macdonald-Laurier Institute, Crowley, and likely Crawford, now have an interest in the issue of cigarette smuggling? One possible explanation is, things have changed since 2000. The cigarettes being smuggled now have the brand names "Play Fares", "Golden Leaf", "Signal", and "Wolf Pack" instead of Player's, Matinee, and Du Maurier. Haven't heard of these brands? That's because they are manufactured on Indian reserves, instead of by BAT (Imasco's successor), Philip Morris, and the other Big Tobacco companies. Perhaps the Big Tobacco companies don't want any competition, so Crowley's article is the start of an effort to push Canadian and US governments to shut this competition down. However, if this is what the real agenda is, don't expect to read about it in the Vancouver Sun.

 

[agentaqua]

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/03/21/CrimeFloggers/
Harper's Crime Floggers

The case of the Macdonald Laurier Institute, key accomplice to Tories in their assaults on truth.

By Donald Gutstein, 21 Mar 2011, TheTyee.ca

Attempted heist: How to steal headlines without facts to back them up.

Accused Killers Go Free, Crime Victims Suffer

What's wrong with this picture?

Can You Really Be "Tough on Crime?"

What we're all missing in the hoopla over conservative courts.

Sun cuts meant ‘lost depth’, more ‘small crime stories’: editor

Crime rates are rising, crime rates are rising, crime rates are rising...

Say this often enough and it becomes official truth. That seems to be the strategy devised by the Harper government and its current think-tank squeeze, the Macdonald Laurier Institute.

In February 2011, the Ottawa-based institute released a study which purported to prove that Statistics Canada was cooking its books about the direction of crime statistics.

StatsCan has reported that the incidence of crime has been declining for several decades.

Not so, argues Scott Newark, a former Alberta Crown prosecutor, in a recent Macdonald Laurier Institute (MLI) report. He lays out what he claims are the many shortcomings in the data collection and reporting and the ensuing erroneous generalizations the media disseminate to the public. Newark concludes the state is not doing its duty to protect citizens from crime because the state is not receiving accurate information about the incidence of crime.

The study arrived at a convenient time for the Harper government, which may be going into a spring election in which its tough-on-crime agenda will certainly come under attack.

On Mar. 16, the Conservatives revealed that the 18 crime bills before Parliament would cost $631 million, on top of the cost of expanding prisons, which they had claimed earlier would be $2.1 billion over five years. The opposition parties all insisted the cost would be much higher.

But the usefulness of the MLI report for the Harper Tories could be limited. Many of Newark's claims were quickly shot down by leading criminologists. See here and here for some important critiques.

Prisons for unreported criminals?

The study makes much of the notion of unreported crime. If there is such a thing, then Statistics Canada's information would be next to useless, since StatsCan data is collected from police reports.

This reality-redefining campaign was kicked off by Treasury Board President Stockwell Day in the autumn of 2010 and seconded by current Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, who said recently: "It's not that crime rates are falling. The reporting of crime is in fact falling." We need to build more prisons in part because of this rise in unreported crime, is the Tory assertion.

Day claimed that 88 per cent of sexual assaults go unreported to the police. But this number actually comes from a separate StatsCan survey, which asks the question: "During the past 12 months has anyone ever touched you against your will in any sexual way (unwanted touching, grabbing, kissing or fondling)?"

These are certainly examples of assaultive behaviour, says Vancouver Island University criminologist John Anderson, but hardly sex crimes. Most respondents who experienced this behaviour did not report it to the police, they told StatsCan interviewers, because "the incident was not important enough."

Nonetheless, these and similar activities are at the heart of Conservative arguments for more prisons.

Macdonald Laurier's ties to Harper's team

The Macdonald Laurier Institute is headed by Brian Lee Crowley, who claims his think tank is "non-partisan," but perhaps coincidentally, only conservative ideas are disseminated. And even more coincidentally, these ideas are of great value to the Harper government.

The institute has proposed, for instance, that pensions don't need to be boosted, that terrorists in Canadian prisons need to be put in isolation so they can't radicalize entire prison populations, that user fees and private health care are eventually inevitable for medicare, and that Canada needs to deepen its economic integration with the U.S.

Is the Macdonald Laurier Institute providing intellectual cover for the Harper agenda? And how close is it to the Harper government? The official Government of Canada website carries the brand name "The True North Strong and Free;" Crowley's brand is "The True North in Canadian Public Policy."

Scott Newark actually worked briefly as a special advisor to Stockwell Day when Day was minister of Public Safety. Newark then went on to work as project manager overseeing a $300,000-plus contract from his former ministry.

Newark also did a stint as executive director of the Canadian Police Association, where he expressed the startling opinion that "anything effective in law enforcement will inevitably be forbidden under the Charter (of Rights and Freedoms). As we say, the Charter helps only murderers, pedophiles and judges..." (Joe Woodard, "Rumblings of a counter-revolution," Alberta Report, Jan. 19, 1998, p.10)

When Crowley was starting up his organization, federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty hosted a private dinner at Toronto's Albany Club to raise support for Crowley's think tank. Flaherty wrote a letter inviting corporate executives to the event. In it, he said he was "giving it my personal backing... and I hope that you will consider doing the same... My office will follow up with you." Was the finance minister using his office to raise funds for the new think tank?

They were certainly already well acquainted. In 2006, Flaherty appointed Crowley the Clifford Clark Visiting Economist in Flaherty's finance department, where Crowley gave policy advice -- on what we can only imagine -- to the new Harper government. Four months later, while still working in the finance department, Crowley incorporated the think tank.

Harper's new chief of staff Nigel Wright was then a trustee of Peter Munk's Aurea Foundation, which gave Crowley $100,000 to help get his think tank up and running.

Pushing the wedge

This is just the latest example of the Harper government and neoliberal think tanks working together, in this case to convince Canadians crime is an epidemic and government must crush it with an iron fist.

With his tough-on-crime agenda, Harper is playing to the social conservatives in his coalition, and the Macdonald Laurier Institute is there to help. It is chaired by Rob Wildeboer, a wealthy evangelical Christian who is chief backer of the ECP Centre, which attacks human rights commissions as instruments of Christian persecution.

Marci McDonald, author of The Armageddon Factor, explains that as the ECP Centre sees it, "the very notion of legally protected individual rights is an unthinkable heresy, a repudiation of God's sovereign law."

An eye for an eye seems to be the order of the day. Or incarceration for an unwanted kiss.

Can the theocratic state be far behind?

 

[sockeyefry2]

Hey wait a minute here. Bit of a double standard.

So am I to understand that the OP EDs you don't agree with are crap, but the OP EDs that say stuff you agree with are golden?

So could I conclude that this double standard also applies to sources of info about salmon farms as well?

 

[sockeyefry2]

Hey anybody know what's going on at the Namgis Closed Con Facility? Don Staniford is reporting they have a virus in the smolt that were just delivered in Mid March?
Don posted this on his Blog:

"....Christine Hunt (the sister of Namgis First Nation Chief Bill Cranmer) posted on Facebook over the weekend:

"I spoke to Bill and yes there is a virus in their tank but being a half mile from the river and a filtration system watched around the clock, there is no danger of the virus spreading. I suggest you phone Mike Berry in Alert Bay...his number is in your telephone book."...."

Wonder what virus they could have? IPN? of course it could be a bacterium that people are mistakenly referring to as a virus.

 

[agentaqua]

Not sure what you mean, SF. You're surely not supporting corruption and collusion in our democratic process, are you?

Here's a new and interesting study - supports the notion of having a full environmental assessment for fish farms with full public participation:

http://icf.som.yale.edu/sites/defau...al Conference/fernbach_politics_PSCI_2012.pdf

 

[sockeyefry2]

What I am saying is, you only believe the reports that corruption exists because it is about persons whom you want to believe it exists. It is more conspiracy threorists without any real proof of their allegations.

I would suggest your study speaks to the mentality of the anti salmon farmer quite eloquently. Especially the quote:

“Extremism is so easy. You’ve got your position and that’s it. It doesn’t take much thought.” -- Clint Eastwood, Time Magazine, February 20, 2005

BTW Public Hearings are part of the Aquaculture licensing process in some jurisdictions in this country.

What do you think of the Namgis Virus allegations by Staniford?

 

[agentaqua]

WOW SF. I can't believe that you want to appear that naive. LMFAO. You're just playing devil's advocate, right? You don't really believe that there is no corruption in Ottawa or the federal government, right? It astounds me that you are living there and haven't clued-in to the way decisions are reached in Ottawa, and with the PMO. The only thing that they did wrong in the Mulroney/Schriber affair was to get caught. It's the way decisions are made in Ottawa – with the aid of a nondescript manilla envelope. Harper has even surpassed Mulroney's “magnificence” in the context of corruption and suppression of democratic rights and proper functioning of government. Of course if you are part of the instrument of oppression – the view looks much better,

 

[agentaqua]

It would be unfortunate if the Namgis failed.

Where is it different wrt envirionmental assessments in Canada for farm siting, and how so?

You do understand the difference between a full CEAA assessment and a screening, right?

 

[GLG]

[h=2]Nova Scotia sets up panel to develop rules for fish farms by end of 2014[/h]http://thetyee.ca/CanadianPress/2013/05/01/NS-Fish-Farm-Rules-23140262/
HALIFAX - The Nova Scotia government is setting up a panel to develop new regulations for the aquaculture industry by the end of 2014. Aquaculture Minister Sterling Belliveau says the panel will be led by two environmental law experts from Dalhousie University, Meinhard Doelle and William Lahey. They will be advised by a committee that will include industry and environmental groups, the Mi'kmaq and the Union of Nova Scotia Municipalities. The panel will consider what changes are needed to improve the regulation of the aquaculture industry. Public consultations are expected to begin this summer. Belliveau says his department will not approve any new applications for marine-based aquaculture sites until new regulations are in place.

 

[Dave]

It would be unfortunate if the Namgis failed

Now that's an understatement. It would be devastating for future investment opportunities for closed containment, imo.

 

[Andrew P]

Now that's an understatement. It would be devastating for future investment opportunities for closed containment, imo.

Which is obviously why SF2 up there is rooting for it to fail...

 

[Dave]

Which is obviously why SF2 up there is rooting for it to fail...

Nobody who cares about the future of both wild and farmed salmon is happy about this, whatever this is. Let’s try to get some facts posted here.

 

[Charlie]

What I am saying is, you only believe the reports that corruption exists because it is about persons whom you want to believe it exists. It is more conspiracy threorists without any real proof of their allegations.

I would suggest your study speaks to the mentality of the anti salmon farmer quite eloquently. Especially the quote:

“Extremism is so easy. You’ve got your position and that’s it. It doesn’t take much thought.” -- Clint Eastwood, Time Magazine, February 20, 2005

BTW Public Hearings are part of the Aquaculture licensing process in some jurisdictions in this country.

" proof of their allegations"? Would you mind addressing why DFO knew about positive ISA test results in 2004 and still did NOTHING?
http://www.salmonconfidential.ca/more-great-videos-educate-youself/dfo-knew-about-isa-virus/

 

[Andrew P]

Nobody who cares about the future of both wild and farmed salmon is happy about this, whatever this is. Let’s try to get some facts posted here.

Well, Dave, I don't see the same interest about the potential of an outbreak on any of the dozens of farms across bc as there is about this one.

Could it be that the industry is rooting for it to fail?

I am very sure that you and all the rest will be putting out all of the facts about the downfall of closed containment and therefore open net feedlots must be the answer.

Could it be that salmon are not meant to be kept in a cage? The funniest part of this debate is bashing Alaska and washington about pumping lots of hatchery fish into the water. What a craaaaazy idea to think that enhancing a natural ecosystem might be the easiest way to harvest it....

 

[agentaqua]

hey Andrew - I admire your zeal in protecting wild salmon. However, as far as the Namgis situation goes - we need to help transition the industry away from open net-pens. We need alternatives, and I believe that some in the industry are forward thinking enough to also understand this. Undoubtably, there will be many in the upper levels of industry and government that profit from the status quo and will be unwilling to transition. Having a closed containment operation fail will give them reason to drag their heels. That's not helpful. I support their efforts to transition out of the open net-cage technology.

 

[cuttlefish]

Hey anybody know what's going on at the Namgis Closed Con Facility? Don Staniford is reporting they have a virus in the smolt that were just delivered in Mid March?
Don posted this on his Blog:

"....Christine Hunt (the sister of Namgis First Nation Chief Bill Cranmer) posted on Facebook over the weekend:

"I spoke to Bill and yes there is a virus in their tank but being a half mile from the river and a filtration system watched around the clock, there is no danger of the virus spreading. I suggest you phone Mike Berry in Alert Bay...his number is in your telephone book."...."

Wonder what virus they could have? IPN? of course it could be a bacterium that people are mistakenly referring to as a virus.

The way to find out what is going on is to contact them yourself. Here's a link for you to read and it explains how;

http://www.namgis.bc.ca/CCP/Pages/Communication-requiring-clarification--correction.aspx

 

[GLG]

Hey anybody know what's going on at the Namgis Closed Con Facility? Don Staniford is reporting they have a virus in the smolt that were just delivered in Mid March?
Don posted this on his Blog:

"....Christine Hunt (the sister of Namgis First Nation Chief Bill Cranmer) posted on Facebook over the weekend:

"I spoke to Bill and yes there is a virus in their tank but being a half mile from the river and a filtration system watched around the clock, there is no danger of the virus spreading. I suggest you phone Mike Berry in Alert Bay...his number is in your telephone book."...."

Wonder what virus they could have? IPN? of course it could be a bacterium that people are mistakenly referring to as a virus.

From their website

Email sent to Don Staniford on April 28th, 2013:
As per our earlier communication Don, the purpose of the 'Namgis Land-Based Closed Containment Project is to make a positive environmental difference. This is what has united the 'Namgis First Nation with two environmental groups - Save Our Salmon and Tides Canada - and also why there is Independent Environmental Monitoring through the Pacific Salmon Foundation.
There are no known diseased fish in the facility and precautions have been undertaken in case there are unknowns. Tables 1 and 2 of the Pathogen Control Backgrounder indicate when fish would or would not be accepted.
Concerns about viruses and bacteria emphasize why it is so necessary to prove the economics of closed containment where fish stresses can be reduced and contact with the environment can be controlled.
All the measures taken to ensure this is the case, as well as the protocol around bacteria and viruses, and videos of the fish - can be found on the 'Namgis webpage at http://www.namgis.bc.ca/CCP/Pages/default.aspx.
Detail is also provided in the backgrounders there about how, as an extra measure of precaution, the overflow water is even being disinfected prior to being discharged back to ground and flowing 1 mile (+160 days) before reaching the ocean.
With regard to the tanks, one of the growout tanks was cracked during construction and has been repaired and tested. The facility is a fully enclosed, biosecure building that is a considerable distance from the River. Therefore, there can be no escapes – another advantage of land-based closed containment.
I find it very confusing Don that with your passionate concern for wild salmon, and understanding of the integrity of those involved, especially the 'Namgis First Nation, that you are directing negative energy at closed containment and what we are striving to achieve.
Wishing you the very best,
Jackie


Jackie Hildering
The SOS Marine Conservation Foundation - Director of Communications
Namgis Closed Containment Project - Community Liaison

Box 1321; Port McNeill; BC; V0N-2R0
www.saveoursalmon.ca
www.namgis.bc.ca/CCP/Pages/default.aspx
Tel: 250-956-3525

 

[salmonkiller01]

Sound like there is no virus, Don just hates marine harvest so much that he thinks all their smolts are diseased. Good way to lose all credibility. If the smolts were in fact diseased then marine harvest would have some explaining to do.

GLG thanks for the link, this project is awesome, I am going to see if I can get a tour of the facilities this summer

 

[agentaqua]

It's unfortunate that Don apparently knows no other alternative to constant attacks. It can be very unproductive at times.

 

[Andrew P]

hey Andrew - I admire your zeal in protecting wild salmon. However, as far as the Namgis situation goes - we need to help transition the industry away from open net-pens. We need alternatives, and I believe that some in the industry are forward thinking enough to also understand this. Undoubtably, there will be many in the upper levels of industry and government that profit from the status quo and will be unwilling to transition. Having a closed containment operation fail will give them reason to drag their heels. That's not helpful. I support their efforts to transition out of the open net-cage technology.

I agree with you and completely want to see this project succeed and get the open net pens out of the water. That said, I don't see the industry at large supporting this movement, although of course there are ones that do.