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ziggy
Well-Known Member
Clearly there is a pattern here. Public fishery is nowhere on their radar and never has been. We have all been well behaved little citizens who only complain amongst ourselves. We pay out taxes go to work every day and vote, but don’t get involved in politics! Compare that to the ENGO’s, their job is lobbying, they get payed for it. They work the media and the emotions of their largely urban donors and supporters. They bend facts to suit themselves and pass it off on their followers,who never bother to check any of those facts. They continuously complain and demand attention! And they of course get it.
What we need to do is try and get noticed as well, otherwise nothing will change. Ask candidates what their policy is and what that of their party is. We live in an age of email where we can contact pretty much anyone, including the Prime Minister! Time to quit being meek followers and remind politicians they serve because we choose them to , and we can just as easily choose them not to.
At any rate we can all safely say we know what tactic doesn’t work. Contact your local politicians, contact those who will run against them and ask questions. What’s that hockey saying, You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
Additionally, we have to remember that some of the fixes is/should require increased regulation. Unfortunately, Corporate interests generally ***** and complain if their profits are infringed on.... Part of it will also take us forcing large corporations to be better corporate citizens. The ENGOs take a lot of hate, but I think some of the for profits actually are the ones causing a lot of harm. Think Mount Polley mine and CN rail derailment as major events. However, minor **** happens all the time....
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
And where will Canada’s economy be in 20, 50 or 100 years without immigration given our current birth-rates? Canadians are supposed to be ok w/ billions and billions of free handouts to corporations, the worst being the oil and gas industry, but supporting families to settle in this country so our population doesn’t shrink is a bad investment? That’s your emotion talking as any economic analysis shows, unless we abandon our growth/consumer based economy, it all falls apart if population shrinks, which means immigration in Canada is essential. Race has nothing to do with the immigration issue, it is all about economics. Label the different parties how you want but none of them make decisions or implement policy if it doesn’t benefit them, which 9/10 times means bottom line economic $$$.
Cheers!
Ukee
In our modern “democratic “ world, politicians are just puppets in the hands of big corps. The rest is just the dog & ponny show. Those fish farms and their multi-national parent companies have a bigger pocket and put more $$ in election campaign funds than the local BC guides and tackle shops. This doesn’t just apply to one political party and is more of an accepted norm in our western democracies.
Average Canadians will not pay too much attention to election issues between Easter and the end of summer. Unfortunately, we aren’t going to get a lot of PR support behind ourselves and public fishery will not be an election topic.
Average Canadians will not pay too much attention to election issues between Easter and the end of summer. Unfortunately, we aren’t going to get a lot of PR support behind ourselves and public fishery will not be an election topic.
[QUOTE="
Average Canadians will not pay too much attention to election issues between Easter and the end of summer. Unfortunately, we aren’t going to get a lot of PR support behind ourselves and public fishery will not be an election topic.[/QUOTE]
I think that may be overly pessimistic. We don't have to worry about PR support on engage in any win over hearts and minds campaigns in competition with the ENGO's.
All we have to do is mobilize our own base in the few riding's that the liberals hold (17 I think, all but one in the Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley) and also in the few they came close to winning in the last election. Further we only need to defeat them in a few ridings or put the fear into them that they could be defeated to get their attention that it is not as risk free as they thought to attack the Public Sector Fishery and so many coastal communities. So far they are only afraid of the ENGO's, they need to be a little afraid of us.
It would be easier if they actually had a seat or two on the Coast or on VI. but they don't. This has worked for us before with the 88/12 campaign in the six months before a Federal Election to get us a fairer Halibut Allocation.
The bloom is off the rose for the Liberals and they are vulnerable. Elections are won riding by riding and some by very small numbers of votes. All we have to do is work hard to pick off a few or scare them that we could, to send a message. There are more than enough saltwater anglers, their friends and family and those in many businesses that are to various degrees dependent on the public fishery to easily turn an election in any of their ridings, if only we are motivated to get out our own base to vote.
Average Canadians will not pay too much attention to election issues between Easter and the end of summer. Unfortunately, we aren’t going to get a lot of PR support behind ourselves and public fishery will not be an election topic.[/QUOTE]
I think that may be overly pessimistic. We don't have to worry about PR support on engage in any win over hearts and minds campaigns in competition with the ENGO's.
All we have to do is mobilize our own base in the few riding's that the liberals hold (17 I think, all but one in the Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley) and also in the few they came close to winning in the last election. Further we only need to defeat them in a few ridings or put the fear into them that they could be defeated to get their attention that it is not as risk free as they thought to attack the Public Sector Fishery and so many coastal communities. So far they are only afraid of the ENGO's, they need to be a little afraid of us.
It would be easier if they actually had a seat or two on the Coast or on VI. but they don't. This has worked for us before with the 88/12 campaign in the six months before a Federal Election to get us a fairer Halibut Allocation.
The bloom is off the rose for the Liberals and they are vulnerable. Elections are won riding by riding and some by very small numbers of votes. All we have to do is work hard to pick off a few or scare them that we could, to send a message. There are more than enough saltwater anglers, their friends and family and those in many businesses that are to various degrees dependent on the public fishery to easily turn an election in any of their ridings, if only we are motivated to get out our own base to vote.
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ziggy
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, increased regulation targeted toward the real problems and backed by scientific fact has to be accepted by corporations as well as individuals.
Some ENGO’s, not all, however receive not so much hate as disdain for their fund raising tactics, using pseudoscience, fear tactics and outright lies to baffle their disciples into feeding money to them. Sadly, our urban population and gullible media believe the fund raising press releases as opposed to researching the claims.
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
I’m on a planet that basis reality in facts, the economic facts show there are massive benefits to Canada, the Canadian economy and thus all Canadians. Simply saying the system is broken, abused or whatever doesn’t make it true. Show some facts and let’s have an intelligent discussion.
Cheers!
Ukee
fish brain
Crew Member
I think Gordie Dodd might have something to say about this.
Federal chinook salmon fishing restrictions get mixed reviews
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fraser-chinook-fishing-restrictions-1.5103054
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fraser-chinook-fishing-restrictions-1.5103054
T
The Jackel
Guest
To show how smart ole Misty Dumbfee is, would you not be concerned about loosing 50% of the smolts leaving the Fraser River as they hit the ocean to a certain group, it is so clear, thats like giving a hundred dollars to your investments but even before it is cashed you only have fifty left, pretty simple me thinks.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
These groups are never against “natural process” like predation.
They are anti rural humans and drive the agenda of the metro sexual vancouverite, Silicon Valley types.
https://www.tricitynews.com/news/can-beavers-and-salmon-coexist-in-port-moody-1.23545807
saltydawg
Well-Known Member
What happened to the Fishery in your own country?
finaddict
Well-Known Member
Lots of great suggestions and ideas here and lots of people who are beyond furious. I am glad to see it. But we are all kidding ourselves if we think we can make any kind of changes in the system as it currently is. For 40 years I have participated and complained to DFO and watched their incompetence. They do their very best to raise the bar on that incompetence every year. Trying to get them to change from an entrenched system that is managed from 5000 km away will never work. They have hundreds of nearly anonymous bureaucrats making decisions that affect the livelihood of families with no one to answer to. It will NEVER change.
So whats the answer? Honestly I don't have one. But I do have a few suggestions. The only way that anyone in B.C. will ever be heard in Ottawa is to play the same game that Quebec has for decades. Want Ottawa to pay attention? Start talking Western Separation. Want a new deal for B.C. with B.C. made ideas that manage our coast in a respectable manner and answers to British Columbians? Make our votes actually count. There isn't a Federal party out there that gives 2 sh*ts about BC votes. We hold no power Federally and we never have. While I am a proud Canadian, I really get nothing out of it other than a superb hockey team for the Olympics every 4 years (when they go). Other than that, I get corruption, scandal, excessive taxes and transfer payments to Quebec and Ontario. Does anyone even realize that Ontario gets transfer payments from B.C. even though they have a higher per capita GDP than B.C. ? More proof that we are getting f*cked.
So whats the answer? Honestly I don't have one. But I do have a few suggestions. The only way that anyone in B.C. will ever be heard in Ottawa is to play the same game that Quebec has for decades. Want Ottawa to pay attention? Start talking Western Separation. Want a new deal for B.C. with B.C. made ideas that manage our coast in a respectable manner and answers to British Columbians? Make our votes actually count. There isn't a Federal party out there that gives 2 sh*ts about BC votes. We hold no power Federally and we never have. While I am a proud Canadian, I really get nothing out of it other than a superb hockey team for the Olympics every 4 years (when they go). Other than that, I get corruption, scandal, excessive taxes and transfer payments to Quebec and Ontario. Does anyone even realize that Ontario gets transfer payments from B.C. even though they have a higher per capita GDP than B.C. ? More proof that we are getting f*cked.
Jencourt
Well-Known Member
So the article starts with John Horgan saying he is disappointed. Hmmmmmmm. Where the hell is/was he in all this? Oh ya standing beside dfo ministers wen they announce funding trying to take credit for some of it.
Wow
But hey, even Horgan is disappointed. The guy actually can comprehend.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
In discussions with both Fisheries critics yesterday, it is quite obvious there will be no turning back from this.
At least this year, and likely for five.
I am uncertain what, if anything the Conservatives would do to lighten the impacts, but I have asked, and will post if / when I get a response.
Whole thing is a travesty.
Already (as in NOW) DFO is "letting" some Fraser Bands commence with a week's effort directed on early run (threatened) springs.
That sector is by far the most responsible for the downward spirals of most spring populations.
Area G (me) has conclusively shown that our impact in May is less than ONE percent Canadian origin, but we get yanked.
Many of the recreational fisheries can indicate the same, but they get yanked.
The FN's are told they will have to wait until July 15, but then they get targeted openings.
And while this whole scenario is being developed, DFO quietly sneaks in a new branch, complete with RDG, support staff and funding.
Title of this new entity?
Reconciliation & Partnerships Branch.
I kid you not:
Via Email:
In direct response to Budget 2019 commitments to support our capacity to work with Indigenous groups and advance reconciliation, I am reaching out to you to share some news about planned organizational changes that we are making at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Pacific Region, to help position us to build on our established relationships with Indigenous communities and organizations across the Region.
I am pleased to share with you that we are moving forward to create a new team in Pacific Region dedicated to work across our diverse departmental branches to advance reconciliation. The name of this new team -- Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch -- reflects the outcomes we want to achieve. My hope is that R&P will provide the Region with strategic support as we continue our work of strengthening our relationships and translating the Government’s high-level reconciliation priorities into specific, concrete and coordinated actions in our day-to-day work.
“Partnerships” in the branch title name highlights the need not only to create partnerships with Indigenous communities to achieve our reconciliation objectives but also to work closely with our industry and recreational partners to ensure that these objectives are realized. Achieving reconciliation will require strong relationships between the Department and industry, governmental and non-governmental organizations and other bodies interested in resource management, all of whom play a role at helping to realize reconciliation.
In the upcoming months, our new Regional Director of R&P, David Didluck, will be seeking opportunities to meet sector advisory and management groups to discuss his work. Rest assured that your key DFO program contacts will not change. I look forward to building on our relationship through further engagement to advance reconciliation and partnerships through fisheries and aquatic management.
Rebecca Reid
Regional Director General
Pacific Region
Life, as I knew it, is over.
Nog
At least this year, and likely for five.
I am uncertain what, if anything the Conservatives would do to lighten the impacts, but I have asked, and will post if / when I get a response.
Whole thing is a travesty.
Already (as in NOW) DFO is "letting" some Fraser Bands commence with a week's effort directed on early run (threatened) springs.
That sector is by far the most responsible for the downward spirals of most spring populations.
Area G (me) has conclusively shown that our impact in May is less than ONE percent Canadian origin, but we get yanked.
Many of the recreational fisheries can indicate the same, but they get yanked.
The FN's are told they will have to wait until July 15, but then they get targeted openings.
And while this whole scenario is being developed, DFO quietly sneaks in a new branch, complete with RDG, support staff and funding.
Title of this new entity?
Reconciliation & Partnerships Branch.
I kid you not:
Via Email:
In direct response to Budget 2019 commitments to support our capacity to work with Indigenous groups and advance reconciliation, I am reaching out to you to share some news about planned organizational changes that we are making at Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Pacific Region, to help position us to build on our established relationships with Indigenous communities and organizations across the Region.
I am pleased to share with you that we are moving forward to create a new team in Pacific Region dedicated to work across our diverse departmental branches to advance reconciliation. The name of this new team -- Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch -- reflects the outcomes we want to achieve. My hope is that R&P will provide the Region with strategic support as we continue our work of strengthening our relationships and translating the Government’s high-level reconciliation priorities into specific, concrete and coordinated actions in our day-to-day work.
“Partnerships” in the branch title name highlights the need not only to create partnerships with Indigenous communities to achieve our reconciliation objectives but also to work closely with our industry and recreational partners to ensure that these objectives are realized. Achieving reconciliation will require strong relationships between the Department and industry, governmental and non-governmental organizations and other bodies interested in resource management, all of whom play a role at helping to realize reconciliation.
In the upcoming months, our new Regional Director of R&P, David Didluck, will be seeking opportunities to meet sector advisory and management groups to discuss his work. Rest assured that your key DFO program contacts will not change. I look forward to building on our relationship through further engagement to advance reconciliation and partnerships through fisheries and aquatic management.
Rebecca Reid
Regional Director General
Pacific Region
Life, as I knew it, is over.
Nog
jriptide
Member
Wow, the level of stupidity being displayed with some of the comments on this thread truly scares me. Yes we are all angry about the restrictions (my wife hears my venting everyday) on fishing . But looking for an easy out here, by blaming foreigner fisherman , immigrants, first nations, governments, pinheads, ENGOs etc., is just ignorant.
The reality is that we are all to blame, “we” as in "mankind" are slowly killing our oceans, I see salmon as the canary in the mine here. Don't get me wrong, I have strong opinions on pinhead culling, herring fishing, salmon farms (sorry James), habitat rehabilitation, and fishing in the rivers for spawning fish. But there are much bigger problems for our salmon, we are killing our oceans through, climate change (which we ignore for economic reasons), polluting our waters, and ocean acidification (changing PH levels of the ocean through CO2 emissions).
If we fix the local issues related to the health of wild salmon stocks that will certainly extend the availability of wild salmon for fishing and food, but for how long. My first questions is do you care if there are salmon for future generations and if you do at what economic cost?
So many on this forum see ENGOs as the enemy or as extremist. Generally speaking, these groups are made up of people committed to trying to save the planet from ourselves. My view of these groups are they have good intentions, but need be realistic and take a balanced approach if they want to get support of the general public. The reality is that ENGOs have the best chance of leading to the changes we need to make, if we want to save our oceans and our salmon. Global changes will take a long time, if ever to happen. So coming full circle, I see it as our responsibility to fight for the things that will keep our salmon around long enough to see those global changes that can lead to the long-term sustainability of wild salmon.
The reality is that we are all to blame, “we” as in "mankind" are slowly killing our oceans, I see salmon as the canary in the mine here. Don't get me wrong, I have strong opinions on pinhead culling, herring fishing, salmon farms (sorry James), habitat rehabilitation, and fishing in the rivers for spawning fish. But there are much bigger problems for our salmon, we are killing our oceans through, climate change (which we ignore for economic reasons), polluting our waters, and ocean acidification (changing PH levels of the ocean through CO2 emissions).
If we fix the local issues related to the health of wild salmon stocks that will certainly extend the availability of wild salmon for fishing and food, but for how long. My first questions is do you care if there are salmon for future generations and if you do at what economic cost?
So many on this forum see ENGOs as the enemy or as extremist. Generally speaking, these groups are made up of people committed to trying to save the planet from ourselves. My view of these groups are they have good intentions, but need be realistic and take a balanced approach if they want to get support of the general public. The reality is that ENGOs have the best chance of leading to the changes we need to make, if we want to save our oceans and our salmon. Global changes will take a long time, if ever to happen. So coming full circle, I see it as our responsibility to fight for the things that will keep our salmon around long enough to see those global changes that can lead to the long-term sustainability of wild salmon.
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