Herring Petition

[fish4all]

Interesting perspectives on this thread. Let’s put one to bed.
The gulf is not the last large herring biomass in B.C.
the north coast has 10-15,000 tons and just had 9.5 miles of spawn.
The central coast is being estimated now but we won’t get accurate numbers as FN and DFO pushed out the herring fleet to give more access to FN in ROK.
Haida has Fish as well but much like the central coast it is being assessed to not show abundance
West coast VI had a decent spawn and again the assessment is being hampered by FN.
Best comment I read here was why are there so many sealions and seals here if there is no food?
The Chinook are not starving. They are being targeted from the day they are smolts being eaten by pinnipeds to the day they return. Weaving through a gauntlet of different gear types (gillnets, trollers, sporties, draggers, Fish farms pit lamping, abandoned FN gillnets). Throw in habitat destruction, pollution, and no enhancement and what the hell did you think will happen.
Guess it’s just easier for elected politicians and some on this site to blame a herring fishery then clean up the above.

 

[fish4all]

https://www.timescolonist.com/opini...l06wqdJZTm1PywKahDwBm4Yuj_8rdatCTcKk47FAvxuU8

 

[searun]

I have a feeling this whole area may be turned into a MPA, So you may just get your wish

You are 100% correct...the ENGO's (Tides Canada in a big way in this case) are importing foreign money to run the MPA process...which they are working hard to fast track before the upcoming election (just in case their Liberal supporters don't win the election) in order to close down as much turf as possible. Some mystery group - IUCN - has "assessed" our coast to set aside areas for MPA's...no real consultation, no meetings in local communities potentially impacted, no strong and robust effort at local decision making. Foreign interests being allowed to handcuff Canada's ability to control her own resources and local economies. Thank you Justin for yet another opportunity for foreign interests to fund and control Canadian policy. Shameful.
IUCN: International Union for Conservation of Nature

https://www.iucn.org/

 

[fish4all]

You are 100% correct...the ENGO's (Tides Canada in a big way in this case) are importing foreign money to run the MPA process...which they are working hard to fast track before the upcoming election (just in case their Liberal supporters don't win the election) in order to close down as much turf as possible. Some mystery group - IUCN - has "assessed" our coast to set aside areas for MPA's...no real consultation, no meetings in local communities potentially impacted, no strong and robust effort at local decision making. Foreign interests being allowed to handcuff Canada's ability to control her own resources and local economies. Thank you Justin for yet another opportunity for foreign interests to fund and control Canadian policy. Shameful.
IUCN: International Union for Conservation of Nature

https://www.iucn.org/

Very sad and very true. I have the north coast plans on my desk and they will be devastating to commercial and recreational fishing. Hard to believe the Haida and other coastal bands got sucked into this. I guess now that very few of their members Fish they don’t give a rats butt.

 

[searun]

Indeed, and divided we fall. That is also why on the herring issue we all need to circle back and get real. Our decisions on how to properly manage this fishery need to be driven by science not dogma. The goal of any fishery (IMO) is to ensure that the fishery is managed to be truly sustainable. No one should be "off the water" if we can scientifically manage to sustainability.

The only concern I have (personally) is that there has been no attempt by DFO (yet) to take into account the ecosystem needs of other important species such as salmon. We need to have a simulation run of the MSE modelling to determine what the prey requirements are for Chinook and Coho, and take that into account when calculating the fishery ER. That way people who have concerns about the herring fishery and its potential impacts on the ecosystem can be assured that we have properly taken these requirements into account when setting the ER.

Bottom line for me is responsible fisheries, rather than falling into the ENGO black hole of yet again over-simplifying these issues and by default killing jobs and economic opportunity. If we let the ENGO's rule the world everyone will be unemployed and we will revert to the horse and buggy days.

 

[Jencourt]

Indeed, and divided we fall. That is also why on the herring issue we all need to circle back and get real. Our decisions on how to properly manage this fishery need to be driven by science not dogma. The goal of any fishery (IMO) is to ensure that the fishery is managed to be truly sustainable. No one should be "off the water" if we can scientifically manage to sustainability.

The only concern I have (personally) is that there has been no attempt by DFO (yet) to take into account the ecosystem needs of other important species such as salmon. We need to have a simulation run of the MSE modelling to determine what the prey requirements are for Chinook and Coho, and take that into account when calculating the fishery ER. That way people who have concerns about the herring fishery and its potential impacts on the ecosystem can be assured that we have properly taken these requirements into account when setting the ER.

Bottom line for me is responsible fisheries, rather than falling into the ENGO black hole of yet again over-simplifying these issues and by default killing jobs and economic opportunity. If we let the ENGO's rule the world everyone will be unemployed and we will revert to the horse and buggy days.

I believe that the increase in humpbacks spending all summer in the strait needs to be considered in that simulation as well.

 

[searun]

From what I understand conducting these simulation runs is highly complicated and needs to be fairly confined in scope. I do think we have to be mindful that a science-based approach has to be about finding the balance between harvest and protection to ensure the ecosystem needs are met...the point of doing a proper simulation run is to arrive at an objective answer, and accept that...even if it doesn't fit with our pre-conceived notions of what needs to be done. Other way around on this...what if a simulation run demonstrates there are more than enough herring to meet the needs of Chinook...are we able to accept that? I am.

 

[wildmanyeah]

If there is not enough herring to meet the needs of chinook then you could infer that chinook with their top down predation are preventing the herring in some areas from recovering or predating on herring is preventing them from recovering.

The how do humans fit into the model, can we take 20% of everything, from hump back whales down. Or do we pick and choose what we harvest based on taste, net value and public sentiment.

 

[fish4all]

If there is not enough herring to meet the needs of chinook then you could infer that chinook with their top down predation are preventing the herring in some areas from recovering or predating on herring is preventing them from recovering.

The how do humans fit into the model, can we take 20% of everything, from hump back whales down. Or do we pick and choose what we harvest based on taste, net value and public sentiment.

I’ve trolled a fair number of Chinook and rarely if ever did we find herring in their guts. Needle Fish yes, herring not so much.

 

[Charter Tofino]

I’ve trolled a fair number of Chinook and rarely if ever did we find herring in their guts. Needle Fish yes, herring not so much.

Science and most people’s experiences differ. Chinook coastwide feed primarily on Herring. Different areas and times of year will see them honed in on needlefish, squid or perch but you need to fish more if you’ve never seen herring in a Chinook stomach.

 

[Fishmyster]

Science and most people’s experiences differ. Chinook coastwide feed primarily on Herring. Different areas and times of year will see them honed in on needlefish, squid or perch but you need to fish more if you’ve never seen herring in a Chinook stomach.

"Chinook coastwide feed primarily on Herring." Not sure where you get this idea? In my experience of thirty two years of fishing Chinook for a living I have not found that to be true at all. Chinook have been feeding on whatever was available to them. Just a few years back they were eating mostly juvenile rockfish. I have found herring to be in the stomachs about 25%of the time. In the field it appears they are not that fussy as they have often three types of food in the guts at one time. Maybe I just don't get out enough to see the science though!!

 

[terrin]

"Chinook coastwide feed primarily on Herring." Not sure where you get this idea? In my experience of thirty two years of fishing Chinook for a living I have not found that to be true at all. Chinook have been feeding on whatever was available to them. Just a few years back they were eating mostly juvenile rockfish. I have found herring to be in the stomachs about 25%of the time. In the field it appears they are not that fussy as they have often three types of food in the guts at one time. Maybe I just don't get out enough to see the science though!!

So when you fish do you find herring in the stomach 25% of the time or do you rarely if ever find herring in thier guts? I'm confused. Many times when I check the guts there are empty stomachs but when there is food in their stomach it's frequently herring. Thats just my experience but I don't get out much either.

 

[Jencourt]

Speaking from my experience as
A “weekend warrior” fishing mainly north Georgia strt, the Chinook either are empty or have herring (often large)in them. Rarely do I ever see much else.

This is different on the few trips I have made to off shore of uki. There it has been a mix. Often needles, and of course the rockfish and pilchard Years.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Location! location! location!

 

[Fishmyster]

So when you fish do you find herring in the stomach 25% of the time or do you rarely if ever find herring in thier guts? I'm confused. Many times when I check the guts there are empty stomachs but when there is food in their stomach it's frequently herring. Thats just my experience but I don't get out much either.

I fish out of Ukee mostly but my fishing range covers from offshore areas to inshore. Forage species have gone thru trends of abundances. There has been several years when it was rare to see a herring in the stomach of Chinook unless you only fished the big bank which I don't. Inshore and near shore areas have gone thru many changes. There was an abundance of sardines for a year or two but now not as many. Anchovies have been showing up in stomachs more the last few years. It is now squid populations that appear to be building in the area and chinook are feeding on them a lot too. Of all the variety in diet I have seen in my fishing travels herring is not the most common food in the stomachs but just one of the many forage species they will eat if available.

 

[california]

I fish out of Ukee mostly but my fishing range covers from offshore areas to inshore. Forage species have gone thru trends of abundances. There has been several years when it was rare to see a herring in the stomach of Chinook unless you only fished the big bank which I don't. Inshore and near shore areas have gone thru many changes. There was an abundance of sardines for a year or two but now not as many. Anchovies have been showing up in stomachs more the last few years. It is now squid populations that appear to be building in the area and chinook are feeding on them a lot too. Of all the variety in diet I have seen in my fishing travels herring is not the most common food in the stomachs but just one of the many forage species they will eat if available.

So the science WMY posted showing about 60% of the chinook diet is herring is nonsense? It shows they do feed on a variety of species, but preferentially feed on herring. Of particular importance are "young of the year and juvenile herring" which would be reduced substantially by a roe fishery.

 

[Fishmyster]

So the science WMY posted showing about 60% of the chinook diet is herring is nonsense? It shows they do feed on a variety of species, but preferentially feed on herring. Of particular importance are "young of the year and juvenile herring" which would be reduced substantially by a roe fishery.

Herring roe fishery would only reduce the availability of juvenile herring by 20% in the areas where herring are fished. That doesn't mean salmon will be reduced of their food consumption ability by 20%.

The science wmy posted is of just a short window in time and a small sample of fish. That report indicates herring populations are strong and salmon are eating them. It is easy to come up with misleading information with angled fish too. If I was one of the people submitting samples and only fished the big bank with plugs my samples would indicate herring as being by far the most common food in salmon stomachs. If I only fished long beach my samples would indicate sandlance and squid being by far more common food consumed. There are days when coho are finning all around but not climbing on my gear because I am fishing with gear that resembles fish species so not matching the hatch so to speak. Because I have fish representations on my line I am catching the fish that commonly have fish in their guts. If I was fishing with pink hoochies all the time and submitting those samples then I could have a high rate of stomach content being krill. So you see just how this science can be flawed by gear type and location!

 

[Charter Tofino]

"Chinook coastwide feed primarily on Herring." Not sure where you get this idea? In my experience of thirty two years of fishing Chinook for a living I have not found that to be true at all. Chinook have been feeding on whatever was available to them. Just a few years back they were eating mostly juvenile rockfish. I have found herring to be in the stomachs about 25%of the time. In the field it appears they are not that fussy as they have often three types of food in the guts at one time. Maybe I just don't get out enough to see the science though!!

Read my whole post. Chinook diets vary immensely on area and time of year but if you break all prey species along the BC coast it’s Herring that are still the primary food source. Science shows this and experience. My post was in response to the claim “rarely, if ever” are Chinook feeeding on Herring.

I’ve guided/fished a fair share of days around the island and central coast. Its a huge mix of prey with trends. With the disappearance of Pilchards since 2010 it would make sense that other prey species have gained importance. Early season squid spawn opportunities up and down the coast’s surfline have been huge in recent years. But that’s a 2-3 month period in a limited area. Needlefish are the primary prey along similar surfline areas usually on the sand/gravel contours. Herring are widespread inshore/offshore along the coast all through the year.

 

[fogged in]

Here, in this 1995 photo, is a once-familiar scene you no longer see: Fishermen standing shoulder to shoulder, jigging for herring from the Craigflower Bridge. Today, despite an encouraging turnaround in the health of the Gorge, herring remain noticeable by their absence. REASON? ‘There’s one,” John George says, and starts reeling.

http://digital.timescolonist.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

 

[Fishmyster]

Read my whole post. Chinook diets vary immensely on area and time of year but if you break all prey species along the BC coast it’s Herring that are still the primary food source. Science shows this and experience. My post was in response to the claim “rarely, if ever” are Chinook feeeding on Herring.

I’ve guided/fished a fair share of days around the island and central coast. Its a huge mix of prey with trends. With the disappearance of Pilchards since 2010 it would make sense that other prey species have gained importance. Early season squid spawn opportunities up and down the coast’s surfline have been huge in recent years. But that’s a 2-3 month period in a limited area. Needlefish are the primary prey along similar surfline areas usually on the sand/gravel contours. Herring are widespread inshore/offshore along the coast all through the year.

Squid are around far more than 2-3 months. We just had a feed caught off my dock in the Deer group islands. Squid are now in Barclay sound year round, if you look for them.

With consideration of this thread it is petitioned to close herring fishing in attempt to increase food for Chinook. I am assuming you support this act where popular group desire is to close down a fishery. How do you feel about ENGO groups with their desire to close Chinook fishing to help Orca? They have staged up all kinds of science to show that Chinook is the preferred food for SRWK. Should our fisheries be closed to please the masses of ENGO anti fishermen who claim people have other resources to acquire food from?