Herring Petition

[wildmanyeah]

Is this ecological travesty over for another season yet? Sad that a forage species like herring could be almost commercially wiped out along an entire coastline, and we wonder why the species in the food chain above these fish are in trouble, as millions and millions of these fish are once again shovelled into reduction plants to be ground up and dried for animal feed.

I have a feeling this whole area may be turned into a MPA, So you may just get your wish

 

[Fishmyster]

Is this ecological travesty over for another season yet? Sad that a forage species like herring could be almost commercially wiped out along an entire coastline, and we wonder why the species in the food chain above these fish are in trouble, as millions and millions of these fish are once again shovelled into reduction plants to be ground up and dried for animal feed.

The real travesty is how engo keyboard drones continue to spread lies and use emotional scripture to create a bias against any Canadian industry. Obviously they couldn't give two s@#ts about anyone but themselves or have any concept that harvest from the sea is a sustainable resource. There will never be unity amongst people who utilize the marine environment while others who coward behind a computer screen continue to promote divide amongst the fishing community.

 

[Fishmyster]

did anyone see the article in the Vanc Sun this week regarding the herring fishery .. Very refreshing to see something in the paper that makes sense..
Hopefully someone in a decision making capacity wil see the light make some changes .. harvesting fish for their eggs, and then grinding up the fish for animal feed .. !! Yet we have declining salmon and killer whale stocks ... And people are supposed to be the smart ones !
However having said that there was another article about the state of our health care and the ability or lack of regarding our elected officials ...WOW are we in trouble !

So if the most valuable part of herring is removed and the rest is utilized for feed that sounds like thorough and responsible usage of a marine resource to me.

Orca and salmon have decline from contaminated water. Restricting a fishery that takes only a fraction of the herring will not correct this. Did you not see the videos of orca with sores all over it?? Have you never read the information about the toxicity in Orcas?? And people are supposed to be the smart ones!!

Hopefully someone in the decision making positions will see the light and disregard all the hateful and ignorant input from the emotional people who don't care if any other Canadians loose their jobs.

 

[Charter Tofino]

So if the most valuable part of herring is removed and the rest is utilized for feed that sounds like thorough and responsible usage of a marine resource to me.

Orca and salmon have decline from contaminated water. Restricting a fishery that takes only a fraction of the herring will not correct this. Did you not see the videos of orca with sores all over it?? Have you never read the information about the toxicity in Orcas?? And people are supposed to be the smart ones!!

Hopefully someone in the decision making positions will see the light and disregard all the hateful and ignorant input from the emotional people who don't care if any other Canadians loose their jobs.

So in your opinion, the drops in salmon stocks over the decades are primarily due to contaminated (acidic) water? Industry (logging, mining, fishing etc) are not major players that should be held accountable? Really?

Unfortunately (fortunately) natural resource jobs aren’t a right. If an industry or fishery like herring, can’t be justified then it should be ended. It’s ****** and I don’t want people to loose jobs but it’s the unfortunate reality as we overpopulate and mismanage.

 

[california]

So if the most valuable part of herring is removed and the rest is utilized for feed that sounds like thorough and responsible usage of a marine resource to me.
.

Yeah, that industry has been REALLY responsible in BC. There is one remnant population of herring left on the ENTIRE coast that still exists in numbers that semi-justify a fishery on it. Forage fish populations around the world have been over exploited for a variety of reasons and uses, but the fish farm industry in recent one. So yes we should wipe out the herring fishery because one guy says its all from acid rain, and nothing else matters.

 

[wildmanyeah]

BS if forage fish populations were crashing would seal and sea lions population be increasing? would pacific northwest humpback whales population be increasing?


show me the evidence that salmon are starving in the Straight of Georgia or near coastal areas.


The reason I don't like to point fingers at this fishery is similar logic and reasons can be applied to all fisheries.

 

[california]

BS if forage fish populations were crashing would seal and sea lions population be increasing? would pacific northwest humpback whales population be increasing?

show me the evidence that salmon are starving in the Straight of Georgia or near coastal areas.

You starting the never ending argument that AA and Birdsnest have on the Fish Farm threads? Show me starving fish or I wont believe there is any effect of fishing herring to commercial extinction on 90% of the coast? If you don't believe there is any effect on the ecology of removing an important part of the food web over vast areas, one that is able to convert plant matter to protein that can be used directly, or indirectly by virtually all predator species, I'm unlikely to be able to convince you it is so. I will continue to write letters, sign petitions or do what I can to help end this damaging fishery, and not cop out on what is right because it might have some indirect effect on a fishery I participate in.

 

[Lul@U]

You starting the never ending argument that AA and Birdsnest have on the Fish Farm threads? Show me starving fish or I wont believe there is any effect of fishing herring to commercial extinction on 90% of the coast? If you don't believe there is any effect on the ecology of removing an important part of the food web over vast areas, one that is able to convert plant matter to protein that can be used directly, or indirectly by virtually all predator species, I'm unlikely to be able to convince you it is so. I will continue to write letters, sign petitions or do what I can to help end this damaging fishery, and not cop out on what is right because it might have some indirect effect on a fishery I participate in.

Bingo.

 

[wildmanyeah]

You starting the never ending argument that AA and Birdsnest have on the Fish Farm threads? Show me starving fish or I wont believe there is any effect of fishing herring to commercial extinction on 90% of the coast? If you don't believe there is any effect on the ecology of removing an important part of the food web over vast areas, one that is able to convert plant matter to protein that can be used directly, or indirectly by virtually all predator species, I'm unlikely to be able to convince you it is so. I will continue to write letters, sign petitions or do what I can to help end this damaging fishery, and not cop out on what is right because it might have some indirect effect on a fishery I participate in.

How is it a never ending argument? scientists can catch fish and measure they body fat you know, They have done for the gulf of Alaska expedition. No one is saying Chinook are starving. The Salish sea project is not saying Chinook are starving,

There is lots of other bait-fish as well that compete with herring like anchovies. Howe sound has a robust anchovy population. I get the argument it makes scene not to harvest herring and keep them as insurance it makes sense. It also makes sense not to harvest Chinook and leave them for the whales. It makes sense not to harvest all types of salmon and leave them to fertilize the forests and feed the animal, I know people like to cheery pick and reserve chum for this one but coho are just as important at fertilizing the upper watersheds that chum don't spawn in. Crabs and crab larvae are important too, as are prawns. Where does your logic stop? and where does it begin?

can't help but think your cherry picking ideals a bit on this one.

You cant have your cake and eat it to, MPA's shut it all down, or open it all up its they way we are going

 

[ILHG]

You starting the never ending argument that AA and Birdsnest have on the Fish Farm threads? Show me starving fish or I wont believe there is any effect of fishing herring to commercial extinction on 90% of the coast? If you don't believe there is any effect on the ecology of removing an important part of the food web over vast areas, one that is able to convert plant matter to protein that can be used directly, or indirectly by virtually all predator species, I'm unlikely to be able to convince you it is so. I will continue to write letters, sign petitions or do what I can to help end this damaging fishery, and not cop out on what is right because it might have some indirect effect on a fishery I participate in.

Actually, @wildmanyeah has a great argument. Its significant point that has a lot of weight behind it. Its something we call all see & science agrees to. How can we have such a healthy increase in predators that feed on forge fish, if we dont have a healthy population of forge fish to support it? If Seal & Sea lions are not eating salmon, then they must be eating a lot of forge fish. For the sake of a healthy debate I would love to hear the opposing argument. Not for the purpose of arguing, but for the purpose of letting others read the arguments & make the choice for them self.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that there is not a ripple effect from harvesting resources. But its always a tidal wave effect as its so often pushed on us.

 

[wildmanyeah]

And for clarity purposes were talking about harvesting this year 18 thousand tonnes of herring on one side of the SOG on a spawning biomass that was estimated to be over 100 thousand tonnes.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Where is the actual data that showing it should be closed? I haven't seen anything from the NGO or other groups yet.

I more reasonable approach is to ask if we could move to gill-net fisheries instead of seining. Giving the department well just close it is no different to what the NGO groups are doing to us right now.


Just my thoughts...

 

[Fishmyster]

So in your opinion, the drops in salmon stocks over the decades are primarily due to contaminated (acidic) water? Industry (logging, mining, fishing etc) are not major players that should be held accountable? Really?

Unfortunately (fortunately) natural resource jobs aren’t a right. If an industry or fishery like herring, can’t be justified then it should be ended. It’s ****** and I don’t want people to loose jobs but it’s the unfortunate reality as we overpopulate and mismanage.

Yes in my opinion atmospheric acidification has been a force restricting salmon productivity to a far greater extent than any of the local industrial activities ever could. Do you believe that changes in the rain chemistry which feeds streams has no effect??

I understand you feel logging has significant impact. What information do you use to believe all the logging activities have been so influential in the decline? Do you visit any pristine streams that have never been logged or mined and compare productivity with the logged ones? Do you compare salmon escapement data on the pristine valleys as apposed to logged ones?

 

[Fishmyster]

Yeah, that industry has been REALLY responsible in BC. There is one remnant population of herring left on the ENTIRE coast that still exists in numbers that semi-justify a fishery on it. Forage fish populations around the world have been over exploited for a variety of reasons and uses, but the fish farm industry in recent one. So yes we should wipe out the herring fishery because one guy says its all from acid rain, and nothing else matters.

Just because you CAPITALIZE some words in you post doesn't make any of your ASUMPTIONS true!

 

[Charter Tofino]

Yes in my opinion atmospheric acidification has been a force restricting salmon productivity to a far greater extent than any of the local industrial activities ever could. Do you believe that changes in the rain chemistry which feeds streams has no effect??

I understand you feel logging has significant impact. What information do you use to believe all the logging activities have been so influential in the decline? Do you visit any pristine streams that have never been logged or mined and compare productivity with the logged ones? Do you compare salmon escapement data on the pristine valleys as apposed to logged ones?

I don’t think logging is the smoking gun affecting Salmon. The list is long and complex with ocean survival conditions, fisheries, logging, pinniped predation and fish farms being some of the major players. I won’t pretend I know about acidification.

I’ve fished plenty of unlogged systems and as you have pointed out the numbers aren’t significantly better. I do argue that they hold water levels more consistent and it is a factor that benefits fish stocks.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Data anyone?

 

[Charter Tofino]

BS if forage fish populations were crashing would seal and sea lions population be increasing? would pacific northwest humpback whales population be increasing?

show me the evidence that salmon are starving in the Straight of Georgia or near coastal areas.


The reason I don't like to point fingers at this fishery is similar logic and reasons can be applied to all fisheries.

I don’t think the forage stocks are suddenly crashing. They totally collapsed in the 40-50s from sodium light reduction fisheries. Then dfo started taking biomass recordings in the 1950s. Stocks built, we were happy and then 4 out of 5 of the coastal stocks dropped to low levels and stayed there forcing closures. Based off dfos numbers, the SOG has stayed consistent at its current level in recent years.

The main argument I have, SOG stability aside, is do we really need to take 20% of a keystone species out of the food web for $300-$700 a ton (not sure this years $$$) with the majority of profits going to wealthy quota holders? The cost to the environment is way higher. Lots of my friends are in this fishery and they work their asses off for their wage. I wish I could back them up but environmentally it just doesn’t make any sense.

The humpback and pinniped point is interesting. Without a ton of research, I bet you can link it to the heavy harvesting/hunting pressure they both faced in the 1850-1950 time frame. Their recovery likely has more to do with protection than fishery rebounds.

 

[Charter Tofino]

Data anyone?

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/scien...rring-hareng/herspawn/pages/stockreg-eng.html

If you scroll down on this link you’ll see the hard catch/biomass numbers by area.


Getting hard numbers for the importance of herring to the ecosystem is damn tough as little is tanglible. If we had it, this fishery would’ve closed decades ago.

 

[SpringVelocity]

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/scien...rring-hareng/herspawn/pages/stockreg-eng.html

If you scroll down on this link you’ll see the hard catch/biomass numbers by area.


Getting hard numbers for the importance of herring to the ecosystem is damn tough as little is tanglible. If we had it, this fishery would’ve closed decades ago.

Thanx

 

[SpringVelocity]

Interesting data shows its trending upward in the SOG. Wow 1970's were hard on herring. I can see though looking at data why SOG would be a tough sell. If you guys look at the graph where it shows estimated spawners. Again not sure how they are getting these numbers.

Interesting SOG really increased in effort last few years vs historical data.