Heat Pump Questions

Newf

Newf

Crew Member
Sorry, not a fishing post but such knowledgable folks on here I figured someone will have an opinion. The compressor on my heat pump crapped out a few days ago. Just over 10yrs old so out of warranty. (of course)

Was quoted around 4K to replace and install new compressor,,,,,11K for a new outdoor unit replacement in kind,,,,and 13K for a different unit that is supposed to be more efficient etc.

My questions: If I repair the unit with a new compressor, given that the unit is 10yrs old, is this just the start of other breakdowns with fan motor, circuitry etc? Should I bite the bullet and get a new one?

If I were to replace the entire unit are there efficiencies in newer style models or is that just a sales pitch or worth the extra 2K for an upgrade? (the one quoted was a Samsung Hylex,,,,,means nothing to me)

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to offer an opinion. This is my first heat pump so I know nothing about them.
 
What brand is your current heat pump? What refrigerant is used in it?
What caused the compressor failure ?
Take some photos for me if you want of nameplate and such and may be able to offer some guidance .
There’s no guarantee on anything these days new or used . Just certain procedures need to be followed to try and get the best out of the equipment .
 
I would echo SC's questions regarding brand of unit and cause of compressor failure. Likely you'll have an r410a system if it's only 10 years old. Typically the lifespan on hvac is 12 to 15 years. The concern of losing a condenser fan motor is not a big deal however, depending on the brand, the circuit board can be pricey and either have a ridiculous lead time or no longer be made in a couple years.
As far as efficiency is concerned you can do the math on whether a few extra percent make up the cost difference on your heating/cooling bill based on a 10 year life span. That time frame is just a coincidence.
Samsungs are good and the local supplier of that product carries lots of stock so if anything goes wrong you won't have to wait too long for parts.
Hope that helps you out a bit.
 
Newf said:
Sorry, not a fishing post but such knowledgable folks on here I figured someone will have an opinion. The compressor on my heat pump crapped out a few days ago. Just over 10yrs old so out of warranty. (of course)

Was quoted around 4K to replace and install new compressor,,,,,11K for a new outdoor unit replacement in kind,,,,and 13K for a different unit that is supposed to be more efficient etc.

My questions: If I repair the unit with a new compressor, given that the unit is 10yrs old, is this just the start of other breakdowns with fan motor, circuitry etc? Should I bite the bullet and get a new one?

If I were to replace the entire unit are there efficiencies in newer style models or is that just a sales pitch or worth the extra 2K for an upgrade? (the one quoted was a Samsung Hylex,,,,,means nothing to me)

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to offer an opinion. This is my first heat pump so I know nothing about them.
Click to expand...
What about replacing both the indoor and outdoor unit and applying for the federal grant. You would get $5000 back on a new cold climate heat pump and be able to basically eliminate your need for electric back up heat.
 
Sea Chaser said:
What brand is your current heat pump? What refrigerant is used in it?
What caused the compressor failure ?
Take some photos for me if you want of nameplate and such and may be able to offer some guidance .
There’s no guarantee on anything these days new or used . Just certain procedures need to be followed to try and get the best out of the equipment .
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response.
It's a Goodman brand.
This is what was on the quote for replacement in kind so assuming it's an identical or very similar replacement.
GOODMAN Unitary Heat Pump:
o 1 @ #GSZB404810 (GOODMAN Unitary Heat Pump Outdoor Unit)

Not sure what refrigerant is in there. It is just over 10yrs as I bought the house new, 10 years ago so whatever was being used at that time.

What caused it to fail. From what the Tech said I'm guessing an internal short. The main panel breaker was popped and would pop immediately on reset. The Tech took the cover off and pulled the plug from the compressor, did some checks/testing on circuitry and the fan would work on reset of the breaker. Plug the compressor back in and breaker would pop.

IMG-0065.jpgIMG-0066.jpg
 
ExFlyGuy said:
What about replacing both the indoor and outdoor unit and applying for the federal grant. You would get $5000 back on a new cold climate heat pump and be able to basically eliminate your need for electric back up heat.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your rely. The estimator that we had in discussed that option with me. However, the indoor unit is in my garage with a fully finished enclosure around it. Almost like a built to fit closet. He said the new unit would have to go in a different location, run new ducting /wiring etc. The current enclosure would have to be ripped apart to get the old unit out so this option is not something I would consider. More work than it's worth in my opinion for what I have.
 
Deejray said:
I would echo SC's questions regarding brand of unit and cause of compressor failure. Likely you'll have an r410a system if it's only 10 years old. Typically the lifespan on hvac is 12 to 15 years. The concern of losing a condenser fan motor is not a big deal however, depending on the brand, the circuit board can be pricey and either have a ridiculous lead time or no longer be made in a couple years.
As far as efficiency is concerned you can do the math on whether a few extra percent make up the cost difference on your heating/cooling bill based on a 10 year life span. That time frame is just a coincidence.
Samsungs are good and the local supplier of that product carries lots of stock so if anything goes wrong you won't have to wait too long for parts.
Hope that helps you out a bit.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your thoughts. I think I'm leaning towards replacing the compressor. It seems that the extra 7K for a replacement in kind or 9K for an upgrade could cover a lots of repairs in the future. May regret it in a couple of years but not the end of the world if I do. I have my emergency heat in use so I will think on it for a couple of days.
 
Newf said:
Thanks for your rely. The estimator that we had in discussed that option with me. However, the indoor unit is in my garage with a fully finished enclosure around it. Almost like a built to fit closet. He said the new unit would have to go in a different location, run new ducting /wiring etc. The current enclosure would have to be ripped apart to get the old unit out so this option is not something I would consider. More work than it's worth in my opinion for what I have.
Click to expand...
Your indoor unit is Electric? Not natural gas?
 
Newf said:
Yes, Electric. The Tech set the thermostat to EM Heat and tested to ensure they were working. I think he said that there were 4 heater strips.
Click to expand...
I hate it when my emergency heat comes on, it kicks the s**t out of my hydro bill
 
sly_karma said:
Still more efficient than the best gas furnace.
Click to expand...
More efficient or cost effective? My limited understanding is that with respect to efficiency it depends on the source of electricity. We are lucky in BC that most of our electricity comes from hydro so a cheaper source. A quick search shows this:

Cons​

A number of disadvantages of using an electric heater in your home include:
  • Less efficient at converting energy to heat than gas heaters
  • Generally more expensive to operate, though this depends on local energy costs
  • Take longer to heat up and to produce heat than gas heaters

Electric Heater Efficiency​

Overall, electric heaters are generally less efficient than gas heaters, making them more expensive to operate. Electric heaters are considered to be 100% energy-effective (all incoming electricity creates heat). But because electricity is typically created from less effective energy sources like coal, gas or oil generators (only 30% of the energy converts to electricity), electric heaters overall are less effective than gas heaters.
 
Newf said:
More efficient or cost effective? My limited understanding is that with respect to efficiency it depends on the source of electricity. We are lucky in BC that most of our electricity comes from hydro so a cheaper source. A quick search shows this:

Cons​

A number of disadvantages of using an electric heater in your home include:
  • Less efficient at converting energy to heat than gas heaters
  • Generally more expensive to operate, though this depends on local energy costs
  • Take longer to heat up and to produce heat than gas heaters

Electric Heater Efficiency​

Overall, electric heaters are generally less efficient than gas heaters, making them more expensive to operate. Electric heaters are considered to be 100% energy-effective (all incoming electricity creates heat). But because electricity is typically created from less effective energy sources like coal, gas or oil generators (only 30% of the energy converts to electricity), electric heaters overall are less effective than gas heaters.
Click to expand...
You're talking about the backup coil, he's talking about the heat pump itself. Rght?
 
Last edited:
No, straight up energy efficiency in terms of energy converted to usable heat.

Resistance coil (baseboard heater, backup coil, immersion hot water tank): 100% Coefficient Of Performance = 1.0

Condensing gas furnace: 92-94% COP, 0.92-0.94

Heat pump: 200-400%, COP 2.0 - 4.0 (varies with outdoor temp)

The worst case scenario for a heat pump, when the backup coil is going full bore, is still better at converting energy to heat than the best gas furnaces, where some heat is still lost out the vent with exhaust gases.

Cost of energy is a different matter. At the moment in BC:
Natural gas, $9.23/GJ
Electricity @$0.0975/kWh = $27.18/GJ

Gas is a currently a cheaper fuel per unit energy than electricity, but using a modern heat pump can overcome that. The cold climate models now on the market can comfortably operate at >200% efficiency in -25°C.

In homes that already have a gas furnace, you are probably able to install a regular heat pump and keep the furnace as backup heat. Below about -10, the furnace kicks in. Saves the purchase cost of the cold climate pump or backup heat coil, and the running cost of backup coil on a cold day.
 
Ya about that heat pump / gas furnace situation, we have a HE gas furnace and heat pump, all trane, about 8 years in. The furnace has been set to kick on around 4 degrees C, and has been set lower but the last tech raised it. The heat pump is a trane xb13will dig out the exact model of heat pump but what is the school of thought around when the furnace should kick in vs heat pump?

3200 Sq ft split level, all insulation at and beyond code etc...0 C?
 
My heat pump makes some weird banging noise when it cuts in on colder days, minus temperatures. It is a 13 year old Trane modal. Had a tech look at it and he said I shouldn't operate it on colder days and switch it to e-heat.

Does that make sense?
 
When I switched from oil furnace to natural gas, the “denseness” of the heat that was pushed out was not as blanketing. Electric heat, to me, feels thinner. My own words, but when forced air natural gas kicks in, it just feels better to me.
 
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