Halibut: Bad News

With all due respect, do folks really think the door is open for further small movements of quota over a number of years? What's the precedent for that? I don't buy it or believe it, not with this conservative government. As has been pointed out on this thread before, 3% is less than any catch estimate estimation error and won't hurt the commercials that much as the annual catch is never within 3% of the IHPC quota anyway. According to DFO estimates the rec fishery was over our "share" by more than 3% last year even though we were shut down early. It wouldn't take much change in effort or success to bump the angler days or the cpue in DFO's estimates by 3%, which means that effectively, nothing has likely changed - we'll see this year I suppose with the closure date.

Like Charlie said, DFO and the conservatives are masters at this game and knew full well that 3% would appease many but really mean nothing - at least not to what each gifted commie will earn, the number of fish recs can catch a day or have in possession or the seasons length. In fact, the only long-term certainty that I believe the Minister was referring to in his announcement was the fact that the 3% change is the one and only to be considered. There certainly weren't any other guarantees of long-term certainty in the announcement, particularly not on the most critical point to rec fishers - a predictable and reasonable opening. What we're left with is on going uncertainty from August on.

Looks to me like the conservative strategists read Canadians right, yet again - regardless of how I, or others feel about it, I think we can all agree that there's a wide-range of reactions amongst the rec group from fairly positive to very negative, which means there's not the united position that'd be critical to challenge the status quo. I think that, more than anything, will entrench this decision for the long-term. Now that's depressing!

Personally sucks for me as I head to Ukee in June and September. June's usually too lumpy/snotty to go outside in my little boat but Sept usually has great weather - "roofing season" when I lived there! I don't foresee hali fishing in September in my future any time soon.
 
I think that is a good idea Holmes, a peaceful protest on the water to show how PO'ed we are at another stupid allocation decision that favours big monied interests at the expense of the average citizen.

To make real progress in this issue we need to be united and start putting our money where are mouths are, so I'll be part of it, who else is game?
 
I'm out as thats unsafe.
It's the same fight but we change the numbers.
15/85 must change as it unfair to recreational fishermen.
GLG
 
juandesooka said:
If the letter writing, town meetings, and all the other grassroots political maneuvering don't work at all, then why did the gov't give even 3%?
Click to expand...

Yes 3% is not what we wanted, but in any negotiation you're always going to get a counter offer of less then you're asking amount. Do we want more quota yes but clearly the campaigning did work, just not to the extent we wanted. As JDS said the conversation is started and we've built awareness around the issue, its never going to be a one time fix, its going to be a constant battle.


juandasooka really is making a lot of sense, don't get discouraged by the small amount transferred to us, treat it as a small victory and use it to fuel continued efforts.

In related news, can someone please visit this thread and clearly explain to Pacific Safari lodge why it is not a good idea to purchase quota, even if it is done with the idea of taking them to court afterwards: http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...dge-Supports-Quota-buying-of-HALIBUT!!!/page3

This is guy set to derail a lot of hard work and needs to understand why he is wrong.
 
Scott Stanfield - Comox Valley Record
Published: February 21, 2012 1:00 PM
Updated: February 21, 2012 2:02 PM

Recreational halibut anglers in the West are once again ticked off at the decision-making protest in the East.

Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Keith Ashfield announced Friday that commercial fishermen will receive 85 per cent of the Pacific halibut fishery, down from an 88 per cent allotment, while the recreational sector's share of the harvest increases from 12 to 15 per cent.

In a news release, Ashfield said the corrected allocation formula — based on Parliamentary Secretary Randy Kamp's review involving the Province, First Nations, and the commercial and recreational sectors — will provide "greater long-term certainty" to the fishery.

Bryan Allen, sports fishing committee director for the Courtenay and District Fish and Game Protective Association, balks at the idea that a three-per-cent increase will ensure certainty to an estimated 100,000 recreational halibut fishermen in B.C.

"Three per cent is a drop in the bucket," he said. "This is ridiculous. This is a common property resource that the province is privatizing, gifting it to a small number of commercial fishermen."

Last February, fishermen picketed outside the Courtenay office of Vancouver Island North MP John Duncan to protest the 88/12 per cent split.

"This is not the end of things," Allen said. "We're looking at the same thing with crabs, with prawns, with salmon. It's all coming down the pipe because it makes things easier for Ottawa."

He notes the commercial group told Kamp to allocate a fixed number of halibut for the recreational fishery based on the previous year's catches. By so doing, Allen said the recreational fishery can plan its year.

"What we were looking for was two halibut per day, three in possession, subject to conservation needs," he said. "If the stocks drop then our catch will drop...In the past the commercial sector has tried to make this a conservation issue. It's not. It's an allocation issue."

An experimental licence introduced last year that allowed recreational harvesters to lease Pacific halibut quota from commercial harvesters based on market value will continue to be available, DFO said.

The 2012 Pacific halibut recreational fishing season will open March 1.

According to the Sport Fishing Institute of B.C., the latest changes will ensure the shortest halibut fishing season in memory for recreational anglers.

"Minister Ashfield closed the recreational halibut fishing on Sept. 5 last year and caused extensive economic damage to the sport fishing industry," group president Robert Alcock said Friday in a news release. "Today, he served notice that recreational halibut fishing will end in the first week of August, which will wreak havoc in the sport fishing industry and which will not conserve a single fish."

Allen notes the halibut fishery is at the low end of the cycle.

"We're still faced with a probability that we're going to have an early shutdown to the fishery," he said. "If I had a lodge or if I was a guide I wouldn't know what to tell my clients."

The Sport Fishing Institute also criticized Prime Minister Stephen Harper for telling Island residents during the 2011 election that government recognizes the importance of the halibut fishery in B.C.

"He promised that there would be stability," Allen said. "We do not have that. He's broken his promise...They (Ottawa) have no idea what sportsfishing means to this side of the country."

reporter@comoxvalleyrecord.com


And "yes" I know there are a couple of mistakes in the article...but people will get the drift.

Cheers
Bryan
 
Thanks CL, same fight just different numbers
 
Glass half full or half empty? This whole issue of late is really about how we choose to look at what happened. So, what happened is there was movement on the 88/12; a partial win and vindication our efforts achieved something positive. We can sit around and worry about not having enough quota cap space to make it through August, or we can accept what we have to work with and make the best of it...glass half full.

I would prefer to do something constructive for the short term and focus on efforts to use the angling regulations as a possible means to spreading out our catch so we at least have a fishery until the end of August. For instance, if we played around with some regulatory options such as a slot limit we may be able to reduce the pounds of fish caught to stretch our allocation. So, that could look like one over a certain size, one under as a part of the current 1 per day; 2 possession. Would allow anglers who are just going for one day to get a fish of any size, but if you are out for 2 or more days you have to select which ones you keep. That could reduce the total pounds caught and spread our quota. Let's focus on what we have control over, not placing our future in the hands of a court where we have no control.

We should also be looking at longer term solutions such as a halibut stamp, and ability to pool that into a fund the recreational community controls and can use to purchase quota on the market.

Meanwhile, we have a fishery and if we work together we can probably make it work out for everyone...or we can sit around and fight about it and turn the fishery into a derby style free for all where everyone is out to catch as many as they can before the music stops and there are no chairs to sit in.
 
I like how this guy talks about inevitable price effects to consumers and the best interests of the public.I'm sure the public likes to see a large majority of the halibut exported and then having to pay 40 dollars a kilo at the store.This is in the best interest of the public? This guy needs to give his head a shake!
 
Not really surprising given his background. Alex (Sandy) Fraser is a consultant. He has done a fair bit of work with DFO, notably regarding the Groundfish Integration Program. This might be his own opinion, but given who he is and what he does, it very much does leave one cause to wonder just who might be footing the bill for the opinion expressed in that article...

Cheers,
Nog
 
This appears to be what is coming down the pipe.... We are now supposed to target ping-pong paddles as our second fish in possession...... sucks.....




March 5, 2012
Ms. Susan Farlinger
Regional Director General
Fisheries and Oceans Canada – Pacific Region
The SFAB Executive Committee is pleased to endorse the recommendation of its Halibut Working Group that effective April 1 the Department of Fisheries and Oceans implement by condition of licence a “normal and under” possession policy in which recreational anglers for the remainder of the 2012 fishing will be allowed to retain one halibut a day, and two in total possession away from their place of residence, but with one of these fish being subject to a maximum size restriction of 83 cm. which translates to 15 lbs in round weight and 11.25 lbs in dressed weight.
The Executive Committee notes that this recommendation came forward following a series of electronic meetings with DFO staff in which productive dialogue was greatly assisted by an analysis of Draft Regulatory Tools for Recreational Halibut Management prepared by Pacific Region of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. This document provided the basis upon which the SFAB members of the working group reached the conclusion that the “normal and under” approach provided the best chance for a full season in which predictable opportunity was available to all participants in the fishery on a coast-wide basis, although at a reduced level.


FROM THE SFAB EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE


There is more in the letter, but this is the "meat" of it.
 
Cuba Libre said:
This appears to be what is coming down the pipe.... We are now supposed to target ping-pong paddles as our second fish in possession...... sucks.....




March 5, 2012
Ms. Susan Farlinger
Regional Director General
Fisheries and Oceans Canada – Pacific Region
The SFAB Executive Committee is pleased to endorse the recommendation of its Halibut Working Group that effective April 1 the Department of Fisheries and Oceans implement by condition of licence a “normal and under” possession policy in which recreational anglers for the remainder of the 2012 fishing will be allowed to retain one halibut a day, and two in total possession away from their place of residence, but with one of these fish being subject to a maximum size restriction of 83 cm. which translates to 15 lbs in round weight and 11.25 lbs in dressed weight.
The Executive Committee notes that this recommendation came forward following a series of electronic meetings with DFO staff in which productive dialogue was greatly assisted by an analysis of Draft Regulatory Tools for Recreational Halibut Management prepared by Pacific Region of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. This document provided the basis upon which the SFAB members of the working group reached the conclusion that the “normal and under” approach provided the best chance for a full season in which predictable opportunity was available to all participants in the fishery on a coast-wide basis, although at a reduced level.


FROM THE SFAB EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE


There is more in the letter, but this is the "meat" of it.
Click to expand...

Looks like some have made our bed. And now we all get to lay in it.......
 
No, it actually doesnt mean jack ****. All it means is we are going to try and make this ******** work. Which is ******** in its own right because it sends the message that we are good with the 15%!!!. THe best part is in the long term this is going to put the screws to the very people that suggested it. Whos gonna book a 2 day hali trip when there second fish has be under 15lbs? What a joke!

Lorne

The only thing that could possibly rub salt in the wound anymore would be if they shut it down in august anyway!! holy fack what a disaster! Ive bit my toungue for 5 days......unreal.
 
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This solves nothing.There will be more halibut released to fit under this max size limit and alot of these fish stand a good chance of dying.Releasing halibut with hooks in their guts will not work.
 
No one would answer my question on the "what do you want" thread about how a possession slot size would work. Is the posted SFAB proposal suggesting that, since you're allowed to fillet and package your catch, that the weight of one set of your fillets has to conform to a pre-set weight? Also, if I have this right, this suggested reg would mean that Richy-rich at a swanky northern lodge can bang a 150 to 200+ butt for his dead meat hero shot and still take a 15 pound chicken but, if I'm lucky enough to scratch up a 20-pounder on day 1 and day 2,3 or 4 of my Ukee trip I have to measure or weigh the second one and throw it back?!!! And throwing it back knowing full well there is no way DFO or any contractor has any ability to creel or inspect the validity of whether I complied?!!! So, scenario A = 150+ lbs against the quota legally, scenario B = have to throw back 20 lbs because the 40lbs (round) against the quota would be illegal/poaching?!!!! Plus, those with the luxury of being in a position to fish halibut in March are exempt for one month. Plus, as there's no restriction on the size of the first fish or total possession poundage or those who don't have to worry about possessions as they land their catch at home on day 1, unless I'm totally wrong there's no guarantee that this proposal will have any significant effect on the current guesstimate of a 20-pound avg fish size ...

Either I'm really, really stupid and missing something obvious or this is the most ill-conceived idea I've ever heard of.

And, before I hear it, I've been as involved as humanly possible via my Interior BC based SFAB branch!!!
 
Heres a great scenario!!!

Day 1 you go out and try to find the halis. Im my limited experience we usually go for a weekend. Which means friday night, saturday all day and sunday morning then back home. Friday is usually a quick fish if we have time, but its normally just get there, get unpacked and have a 1 or 20 beers.

Saturday we head out, we are the opposite of good hali fisherman so we head out and start trying some spots. Usually takes half a day or so to find them. So we fish them and we find a hole with 10-30 lbers on it. We keep releasing everything because we can only keep 1 over 15lbs so we want a big one. Fish are obiviously dieing but wtf we gotta ctach that big one! Well time is running out and we decide something is better then nothing since we only have one more morning to fish. So we keep 1 20lber each after releasing 10 other ones hoping for the biggie.

We wake up in the morning and head out to the grounds. But guess what we can now only keep one under 15lbs. AWESOME. As luck what have it the big boys have moved in and we release fish after fish trying to find one under 15lbs. 60lbers, 70lbers. and so on. Finally we get into a couple of little bastards and bonk em.

So after our weekend we both go home wit ha 20lber and 15 lbers. Let all kinds go of all sizes, most of which im sure will die, (small ones on the first day trying to find a big one, and big ones on the second day trying to find a small one)and ended up 15 lbs of halibut after dressing them each.


So i just spent 1000 bucks(2-3 guys for a weekend is around a grand everytime for us with food hotels, gas, etc)
for 15lbs worth of hali and killed tons of fish in the process. Dont get me wrong ive spent a 1000 and came home with nothing with the current regulation as im not a very good hali fisherman (which is why i usually hire a guide), but i that is because i suck. Not because i was forced too over some stupid reg change that benefits no one other then the group that wants to "possibly" keep it open for a few more weeks.

Far fetched?

Not in my opinion..,

Lorne
 
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