Fish Farms

[agentaqua]

That's called: "Shifting the burden of proof", birdie. Thanks for demonstrating that stalling and evading tactic by the industry.

 

[Birdsnest]

That's called: "Shifting the burden of proof", birdie. Thanks for demonstrating that stalling and evading tactic by the industry.

Shifting the burden of proof. It is only the anti salmon farming crowd the always claims that Viruses are from Norway. I just asking to prove it using timelines. Clearly it cant be done.

 

[GLG]

Like bones highlighted studies saying that prv in bc is related to prv in Norway. Big difference. Could you provide a study that shows it was in norway first and not in the pacific on any certain time line?

Please provide a link to the study that Bones is referring to and I'll comment on it. One thing for sure is that we both agree that PRV in the Atlantic, BC, Chile, Alaska and Japan are related so it should be possible to use genetic sequencing to find the common ancestor. The studies I have seen trace it back to the North Atlantic but I'm open to new evidence if you have any.

 

[Birdsnest]

What Im really looking for is timelines that show at some point it was not in the atlantic or pacific, either or. Such information would certainly prove where the PRV virus has never been.

 

[bones]

That's called: "Shifting the burden of proof", birdie. Thanks for demonstrating that stalling and evading tactic by the industry.

Love it.... Anti fish farm activists make huge accusations to the industry, then when asked to back it.

 

[bones]

Where's your video of the industry risk-managing interactions with wild juvie salmon by identifying critical marine nearshore habitat, and staying away from these areas using agent-based modelling used in siting criteria, bones?

 

[agentaqua]

Well - I gotta really thank Birdie & bones this time.

Instead of accepting that the most plausible answer as to how a virus - closely related to the NORWEGIAN strain - would likely have come via NORWEGIAN brood stock for the NORWEGIAN FF industry - they instead want posters on this forum to PROVE that the FF industry did NOT bring the PRv virus to BC and instead suggest that maybe - just maybe - a flying fish flew over the mountains from the East Coast and brought it here instead.

What utter bunk. I would be ashamed to suggest such a ridiculous theory. I can only believe that they too don't really believe anyone but the defensive FF PR industry led by Marty would expect anyone but an uniformed and naive public to believe that. Doubt is truly their product.

Anyone who knows how environmental assessments work would already know that it is always up to industry to prove that they aren't having an impact - and if they do - to mitigate and compensate. Any suggestion is shifting the burden of proof in an attempt to shift the narrative around accountability.

Yes - it was likely flying fish - in the form of broodstock eggs for FFs on the West Coast - that was the most plausible source of PRv for the West Coast - which has now infected wild stocks since the open net-cage technology cannot mitigate the wild/cultured stock interactions.

see: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188690

 

[trophywife]

More diseased fish to be culled. I wonder if they sell them to the public when they are culled. https://www.undercurrentnews.com/20...ts-another-cooke-salmon-farm-in-newfoundland/

get fed to prisoners are hospitalized folk most likely.

 

[Birdsnest]

Well - I gotta really thank Birdie & bones this time.

Instead of accepting that the most plausible answer as to how a virus - closely related to the NORWEGIAN strain - would likely have come via NORWEGIAN brood stock for the NORWEGIAN FF industry - they instead want posters on this forum to PROVE that the FF industry did NOT bring the PRv virus to BC and instead suggest that maybe - just maybe - a flying fish flew over the mountains from the East Coast and brought it here instead.

What utter bunk. I would be ashamed to suggest such a ridiculous theory. I can only believe that they too don't really believe anyone but the defensive FF PR industry led by Marty would expect anyone but an uniformed and naive public to believe that. Doubt is truly their product.

Anyone who knows how environmental assessments work would already know that it is always up to industry to prove that they aren't having an impact - and if they do - to mitigate and compensate. Any suggestion is shifting the burden of proof in an attempt to shift the narrative around accountability.

Yes - it was likely flying fish - in the form of broodstock eggs for FFs on the West Coast - that was the most plausible source of PRv for the West Coast - which has now infected wild stocks since the open net-cage technology cannot mitigate the wild/cultured stock interactions.

see: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188690

We we have established that there are historical stocking attempts of atlantic salmon from the atlantic historically here on the west coast. This is another transmission "MAYBE". There has been many pacific introductions to the east coast and the great lakes are an exceptional example of that. Wouldn't it be reasonable to consider there have been introductions of pacific species, not necessarily salmon, to Europe many moons ago thus transferring any number of NW pacific viruses to Europe?

 

[Whole in the Water]

Pretty damn sad when big corporations lie through their teeth to protect their profits. Net pen fish farm industry actions are similar to the tobacco industry and many other industries when evidence mounts that they cause harm. They will twist, manipulate, obfuscate, lie, cheat, distract, delay as much and as long as they can until the public will not tolerate it anymore!

Watch these video's and look at these tobacco reps spin the truth like some in the net pen fish farm industry:
Then:

23 years later....

Thank goodness for all the hard work researchers and concerned citizens have done to help move this industry onto land where its negative impacts can be better managed. Lots of new investment in land based salmon farms. At least in this regard the future looks brighter for the industry and the marine environment.

 

[bones]

I just keep being told prv is killing wild salmon, but I dont see any dead wild prv salmon. You keep sending us information with regards to farmed salmon. It pretty much a no brainer if Atlantic salmon have prv in Norway and the pacific stock comes from there then......no need to go shopping lol

But what does this mean for wild salmon?
You keep saying that wild salmon are dying.... Were? Cant we see one?

 

[Birdsnest]

I just keep being told prv is killing wild salmon, but I dont see any dead wild prv salmon. You keep sending us information with regards to farmed salmon. It pretty much a no brainer if Atlantic salmon have prv in Norway and the pacific stock comes from there then......no need to go shopping lol

But what does this mean for wild salmon?
You keep saying that wild salmon are dying.... Were? Cant we see one?

Can you clarify what you are saying here bones in red.

 

[bones]

Anyone who knows how the environmental assessments work would already know that it is always up to industry to prove that they aren't having an impact - and if they do - to mitigate and compensate. Any suggestion is shifting the burden of proof in an attempt to shift the narrative around accountability.

So... The videos were not good enough? Removing the farm from the lease if fowling was found isn't good enough??

Found it funny, could take 2 years to return to pre farm. How long does it take for the forest industry to re grow a cut block? For such an environmental impact 2 years seems pretty short. Matter of fact, doesn't even seem like an impact.

 

[fogged in]

You keep saying that wild salmon are dying.... Were? Cant we see one?

Discussion has gone crazy again!!!
Just how many times is Bones going to demanded to see the "DEAD SALMON" from Fish Farms spread disease and Sea Lice!!
With no corpse, Bones believes there is no case....very simple and convenient...eh

 

[bones]

Can you clarify what you are saying here bones in red.

Sure

I've been told prv is found in Norway
I've been told that pacific Atlantic salmon originated from Norway
So i can conclude that prv can be present in pacific Atlantic stks. I just don't see dead Chinook diseased fish....

Or

Were pacific Atlantic salmon used as brood stk back in late 80's (shortfall) and prv originated in Chinook transferred to Atlantic broodstock to be shipped across to Norway. Then took 20 years to spread thru the defenseless atlantics farmed fish? Only to be shipped back across?

 

[bones]

Discussion has gone crazy again!!!
Just how many times is Bones going to demanded to see the "DEAD SALMON" from Fish Farms spread disease and Sea Lice!!
With no corpse, Bones believes there is no case....very simple and convenient...eh

Sigh.....i ask because I have farmed pacific salmon and have never seen a diseased salmon in my pens. Aside from calling in a vet when my microscope samples showed liver issues. This can be fixed by medicating with Tm200, basically penicillin. Never seen this disease you speak of. Would love to see it one day........if the farms are causing all this disease then shouldn't be hard to catch one? spawning grounds? Commercial nets? Citizens for science survey? Anything?

 

[fogged in]

Sigh.....i ask because I have farmed pacific salmon and have never seen a diseased salmon in my pens. Aside from calling in a vet when my microscope samples showed liver issues. This can be fixed by medicating with Tm200, basically penicillin. Never seen this disease you speak of. Would love to see it one day........if the farms are causing all this disease then shouldn't be hard to catch one? spawning grounds? Commercial nets? Citizens for science survey? Anything?

with all due respect Bones, what would you call this
and then there is the out of control Sea Lice problem which has been well documented.
But those fish are not dead...so they don't count eh??
Bones I respect your right to hold your opinions and mine as well.
There is no doubt we will ever reach common ground!!

 

[fogged in]

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with all doue respect Bones, what would you call this
and then there is the out of control Sea Lice problem which has been well documented.
Bones I respect your right to hold your opinions and mine as well.
There is no doubt we will ever reach common ground!!

sorry for the double photos...don't know how I did that!!!

 

[SpringFever552]

get fed to prisoners are hospitalized folk most likely.

Nope

 

[fogged in]

for Bones
I missed these photos of disease Fish Farm Atlantics.
Damn...can't find a dead wild that looks like these...wonder why??
Damn...photo's doubled up again..sorry!! maybe admin can fix them for me?
And sorry I am playing your game by posting stuff and opinions that have been posted my many people before.
I'll stop if you stop posting "show me the dead fish"
na....forget it. No offence intended... I will just give up on you.