Fish Farms

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More misdirection and fear-mongering from Dunn - which is what he gets paid to do.

The TACs of the commercial fisheries have NOTHING to do wrt FF output...

I think that's possibly a debate for another thread but the price of salmon most definitely has a big effect on poaching. Locally we have pretty good prices for salmon do two basically 2 factors fish farms and our proximity to Alaska.

The higher price of salmon also makes fish farms move to land more viable so perhaps we need to be paying a lot more for our salmon in the future. The righteous letter from the chiefs is also entertaining especially the part where it encourages people to only eat wild salmon.

As for the Tac of the commercial fishers it may have nothing to do with FF but it's certainly decided by politics not science.
 
I think the last 2 posters were correct that it is instead all about marketing. Lobsters used to be what the poor kids brought for school lunches. Pacific cod was undervalued until it was sold as "sablefish". All it took was marketing. Nobody HAS TO eat FF salmon, neither. There are other less environmentally-costly seafood available - that is available and "undervalued" - even tilapia. Take a wander through a seafood market - there are literally dozens of alternative choices - rather than FF salmon.

And as mentioned - the output from FFs DOES NOT set the TACs of the commercial fisheries - so Dunn is just attempting to confuse and misdirect people - yet again. In other words - lie. Lying in order to try and prop-up support for a industry that has both known and unknown impacts to our wild stocks. It also demonstrates the lack of accountability and overwhelming lack of trust issues with believing what comes out of the paid industry PR spokespersons mouths, IMHO.
 
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AA, do you think people would start eating 70% less salmon if farms were gone?
I think you are missing the point Dave.
No one questions that Fish Farms do have a place in the food chain, but most feel they must be positioned in places where they will not and cannot effect wild fish!
That means properly managed dry land Fish Farms, which is a growing trend and examples have been posted on this forum many times.
 
https://morgenbladet.no/aktuelt/2018/04/det-vi-ikke-vet-om-laksen

English Translation:

"I became suspicious and curious. What happens to me when I eat the salmon? "

In 2015, a Norwegian researcher will be interviewed on German television. Victoria Bohne had researched farmed salmon at the National Institute for Nutrition and Seafood Research (Nifes). The task was to investigate a substance called ethoxyquin (EQ). Along the way, Bohne became skeptical of the drug. She thought about the health of the children, and no longer dared to eat farmed salmon, "she said in the interview with German state television. The discovery contributed to a strained relationship with the bosses of the Nifes, she claims.

Now, the deadline is for ethoxyquin, a substance that the EU wants out of the market, but as Norway is dependent on. The industry and Norwegian researchers make a final attempt to show that the drug is safe, which after several years of efforts has not been possible.

NIFES. 2001-2005
The grantee. Nifes, once known as the Norwegian Fisheries Directorate's Nutrition Institute, is beautifully located in old wooden houses by the waterfront in Bergen. In and out of the doors goes Norway's most acclaimed seafood scientists. The institute is under the Ministry of Trade and Industry (NFD), but the researchers insist on their independence. Asks some questions about Norwegian salmon, they will be sent here.

In 2001 a new fellowship came. A study mate goes well for her and says Victoria Bohne was "energetic and sharp, committed, hard working". Today she is long-term sick and can not give an interview. This story is based on other sources, and interviews Bohne have provided to international media.

Her assignment at Nifes was to study ethoxyquin, a synthetic antioxidant that is added to the fishmeal in salmon feed. The meal is shipped with ships from South America. Along the way, the fat can rush and the shipwreckers catch fire. To prevent this, add ethoxyquin. This is mandatory. Alternative substances exist, but they are more expensive and are considered to be inferior.

Side effects . The yellowish, liquid, odorless substance was first synthesized by German chemist Emil Knoevenagel in 1921. It was cheap and practical in use. The image industry found that it prevented tires from cracking. The Monsanto Group added it to animal feed. It was sprayed on apples and pears to avoid brown spots.

Project EQ: Seafood nation in battle for Norwegian interests. Illustration: Simen Sætre
In 1969, people began to worry about potential side effects. Experiments with rats, dogs and chickens showed that the substance was not secreted, but turned into new substances, so-called metabolites , which jumped up in the organs of the experimental animals.

"Suddenly it was completely black, what I had between my hands. The substance changed character. It was unwise to be wise on this substance, "said Norwegian researcher Janneche Utne Skåre to the Fisheries Journal about his attempted ethoxyquin trials in the 1970s. She did groundbreaking studies on salmon and rats. In attempted salmon she found that the drug was transferred from the feed and to liver, fat, kidneys and fillets. She discovered the pathway of the synthetic drug through the body, through the kidneys and urine system, and into which organs it gathered. She wrote that the drug could deform liver cells.

Soon more studies came. The substance could contribute to bladder cancer in rats, a researcher claimed. No, it could prevent cancer, claimed another. A third found that it was carcinogenic in urinary bladder and kidney, but stopped liver cancer. A rat test showed possible association with gastric cancer. The findings were worrisome but contradictory.

Doubtful . It began tapping concern messages to the US Food Safety Authority. Ethoxyquin was added in dog food - could it be the cause of the damage to the dogs' liver, kidneys, thyroid gland and reproductive organs? Was it related to cancer and allergy?

British Margaret Manson found that ethoxyquin damaged kidneys, affected the brain and accelerated aging in male rats. Newborn rats had problems in the urinary tract. Female rats tolerated the drug better.

New study, this time from Japan: A substance from the production of ethoxyquin, β-phenetide , damaged the genetic material of hamsters.

People who came into contact with the drug reported reports of skin pains and allergies, but how dangerous were they?

In 1998, a UN and World Health Organization (WHO) expert group was set up to set an "acceptable daily intake" (ADI). They knew a little, they wrote. Studies on humans did not exist. Possible damage to the bladder was noted, allergies as well, the substance accumulated in the body, but could it alter genetic information and create mutations and cancer? They did not know.

Searched the Research Council . In 2000, Nifes sought funding for studying ethoxyquin in farmed fish. Europe had experienced food scandals for several years. E. coli, cowshed, environmental pollutants, closed limits, destruction of lass with meat and chicken. The EU introduced a directive on the monitoring of undesirable substances in the food.

SALMON FEED
The salmon eats pellets with 30 percent marine and 70 percent vegetable raw materials (soya, sunflower, rapeseed, corn, vegetable beans, wheat), according to the industry. A quarter of the feed is soya, mainly from Brazil. 17 percent are fishmeal, usually shipped with boats from South America.

Sources: laksefakta.no and the rainforest fund / the future in our hands
 
I think the last 2 posters were correct that it is instead all about marketing. Lobsters used to be what the poor kids brought for school lunches. Pacific cod was undervalued until it was sold as "sablefish". All it took was marketing. Nobody HAS TO eat FF salmon, neither. There are other less environmentally-costly seafood available - that is available and "undervalued" - even tilapia. Take a wander through a seafood market - there are literally dozens of alternative choices - rather than FF salmon.

And as mentioned - the output from FFs DOES NOT set the TACs of the commercial fisheries - so Dunn is just attempting to confuse and misdirect people - yet again.


Ha ha, tilapia. Although I agree they are an excellent eating and a much more sustainable fish to farm, I wonder how many BC fish consumers are even aware of them. As you say, marketing would help, but in the meantime if salmon farms disappear, the two groups who will profit the most are Alaskan fisheries, and FN on salmon rivers. That $20 Fraser River chicken will become sellable for $50.
 
another missed point?,, the fish farms are not going to disappear!!!!!!! just move. why is that so hard to accept?!!
 
"I do wonder what kind of pressure would be put on our wild salmon if fish farms were gone from BC tomorrow."

This guy always tries to portray FF's as the big saviour. Fact is, our wild salmon would be better off without them in the water. So effectively, by killing the wild salmon, FF's are creating a bigger marketplace for themselves.

There is no doubt anymore, especially after the latest report, that FF's kill wild migrating salmon. That's not up for debate anymore, it's fact. So move to land, give the wild fish a chance, and then make your claims.

It's in the FF's best interest to have the wilds continue to decrease in numbers.
 
"I do wonder what kind of pressure would be put on our wild salmon if fish farms were gone from BC tomorrow."

That part was from me, the part in quotes was from the story and I do wonder what pressure will be put on our wild salmon.

As someone that knows about the rampant poaching that goes on it worries me if salmon prices skyrocketed. I am not talking about a few fish either I talking about thousands upon thousands getting poached.
 
Dunn is just putting out a red herring argument because he knows that most will fall for it. He has no seat at the PSC nor will he ever get one there. That is where TAC is set and there is no getting around it. He is just worried that since 80% of the FF salmon go to the US he will see his market go elsewhere along with his job. It must keep him up at night and frequent trips to costco for underwear.
 
Dunn is just putting out a red herring argument because he knows that most will fall for it. He has no seat at the PSC nor will he ever get one there. That is where TAC is set and there is no getting around it. He is just worried that since 80% of the FF salmon go to the US he will see his market go elsewhere along with his job. It must keep him up at night and frequent trips to costco for underwear.

You make the assumption that allocation and escarpments will remain the same based on public demand I doubt this will happen.

Commercial and FN commercials fish for all recreational fishermen fish for them selves and play with FN food.Fish is easy currency in reconciliation and a dramatic rise in price will only make that political pressure increase

Also soon their will be First Nations nations sitting on the psc. The negotiations with DFO is almost done.

As a recreational fishermen I just have doubts that the removal of fish farms completely. That the gains in wild population will out weigh the gains in demand for wild salmon.

Let’s remove the fish farms or reduce/move them out of areas like discovery passage

Let’s transition them to land through government subsidies.

Let’s be smart about it, the only red herring I see is the one where people in this forum portray the the minuit fish farms are gone that salmon will have a sudden recovery. When much grearter forces have caused the declines in wild salmon.

Posting fear mongoring articles from the east coast about diseases that are not in fish farms in the west coast is. Is the same fear monger tactics your acussing of Dunn.

Oh and that enforcement issue has not changed in the last 20 years it’s only gotten worse. DFO continues to shrink while our population continues to increase. Also DFO likes to deal with poaching by just closing fishing for all so it should be a concern if it increases.
 
Oh and that enforcement issue has not changed in the last 20 years it’s only gotten worse. DFO continues to shrink while our population continues to increase. Also DFO likes to deal with poaching by just closing fishing for all so it should be a concern if it increases.

You will be happy to know that because of some of us here on this forum through SFAC/SFAB kicking up a fuss we got that trend changed.
Your welcome.....

Recruitment projections
A total of 86 new fishery officers were hired and trained between 2011 and 2016.
We anticipate staffing more than 100 fishery officer positions over the next 2 years (2018 to 2019).
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/career-carriere/enf-loi/training-formation-eng.htm
 
You make the assumption that allocation and escarpments will remain the same based on public demand I doubt this will happen.

Commercial and FN commercials fish for all recreational fishermen fish for them selves and play with FN food.Fish is easy currency in reconciliation and a dramatic rise in price will only make that political pressure increase

Also soon their will be First Nations nations sitting on the psc. The negotiations with DFO is almost done.

As a recreational fishermen I just have doubts that the removal of fish farms completely. That the gains in wild population will out weigh the gains in demand for wild salmon.

Let’s remove the fish farms or reduce/move them out of areas like discovery passage

Let’s transition them to land through government subsidies.

Let’s be smart about it, the only red herring I see is the one where people in this forum portray the the minuit fish farms are gone that salmon will have a sudden recovery. When much grearter forces have caused the declines in wild salmon.

Posting fear mongoring articles from the east coast about diseases that are not in fish farms in the west coast is. Is the same fear monger tactics your acussing of Dunn.

Oh and that enforcement issue has not changed in the last 20 years it’s only gotten worse. DFO continues to shrink while our population continues to increase. Also DFO likes to deal with poaching by just closing fishing for all so it should be a concern if it increases.
You should consider joining your local SFAC so that you can learn and have input for your local waters. You seen to have time on your hands and you seem to be a quick study. You also seem to have the passion and you could be of real value there. There is a whole lot more to these issues then what you read on the internet and the only way to get a deep understanding is to get involved and see how things work. There are some incredibly smart folks that participate and are willing to transfer their knowledge to the next generation. The question is are you willing to step up?
 
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You should consider joining your local SFAC so that you can learn and have input for your local waters. You seen to have time on your hands and you seem to be a quick study. You also seem to have the passion and you could be of real value there. There is a whole lot more to these issues then what you read on the internet and the only way to get a deep understanding is to get involved and see how things work. There are some incredibly smart folks that participate and are willing to transfer their knowledge to the next generation. The question is are you willing to setup?

I’m part of it but every time we try to put conservatives measures forward we get out voted by a store owner and his cronies from a rod a gun club. Can’t even get an area closed where fish get snagg off their redds. Some recreational fishermen have been caught with over 30 black chum in their trucks in the area and we only wanted to close the last 2 weeks (non retention) when the chum are on their redds spawning and out of condition.

Some great people on it others tho it’s all about the money.
 
I’m part of it but every time we try to put conservatives measures forward we get out voted by a store owner and his cronies from a rod a gun club. Can’t even get an area closed where fish get snagg off their redds. Some recreational fishermen have been caught with over 30 black chum in their trucks in the area and we only wanted to close the last 2 weeks (non retention) when the chum are on their redds spawning and out of condition.

Some great people on it others tho it’s all about the money.

Thank you for getting involved. I can't give you advice on how to fix that issue today, but I can tell you that after spending the last ten or so years at it, I have found that if you keep banging a way at it eventually things can change. Keep bringing motions forward even though they may get voted down they will show up in the minutes. Shine light on the problem and who knows maybe the SFAB will notice. (hint, hint)
 
Insect farms gear up to feed soaring global protein demand
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...d-soaring-global-protein-demand-idUSKBN1HK1GC

LANGLEY, British Columbia (Reuters) - Layers of squirming black soldier fly larvae fill large aluminum bins stacked 10-high in a warehouse outside of Vancouver. They are feeding on stale bread, rotting mangoes, overripe cantaloupe and squishy zucchini. But this is no garbage dump. It’s a farm.

FEEDING BUGS TO FISH
Cargill conducted an insect-based feed trial on poultry in 2015, but the company’s efforts with insects have since focused on bolstering its growing aquaculture business, where demand for alternative proteins is most acute.

Beta Hatch is chasing the same market. The small company’s mealworms - larvae of the mealworm beetle - will likely end up as fish food as Emery expands her business with the help of an investment from Wilbur Ellis, whose fish-farming customers have pressed for sustainable alternatives to fishmeal.

“Fishmeal has a limited supply, and aquaculture is continuing to grow,” said Andrew Loder, president of Wilbur Ellis’ feed division. “We see insect meal as one piece of a solution.”

Fish farming is growing fast with growing consumer demand and increasing concerns about overfishing, resulting in catch restrictions in many depleted fisheries. Warming oceans in some areas have also disrupted supplies.

That means fish eaten by humans will increasingly come from farms - driving up demand and prices for fish feed.

(For a graphic on expansion of fish farms and rising fishmeal demand, see: http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/USA-PROTEIN-BUGS/0H0010QJ0JR/index.html)

Fishmeal is made from wild-caught anchoveta, herring and other oily fish that represents about 25 percent of a typical aquaculture feed ration, which typically also includes grains or soybean meal.

But fish farms cannot rely solely on crop-based feeds to nourish their naturally carnivorous stock.

“You can feed an animal all grain, and it will grow, but it may not grow as quickly and efficiently and may be prone to disease,” said Andrew Vickerson, chief technology officer at Enterra.
 
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More bad news for Fish Farms

”You may remember, back in December, the City of Victoria passed a motion asking the Province to transition away from open net-pen fish farms towards closed containment. This weekend, Victoria is bringing this motion to the Association of Vancouver Island and Coastal Communities (AVICC) convention, hoping to get it approved by the 53 member communities.

B.C. is now the only place on the west coast of North America that allows open net-pen fish farms.

If these resolutions pass at AVICC, they will be brought to the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in fall 2018. This would place massive pressure on Premier Horgan and Prime Minister Trudeau to get open net-pen fish farms and their diseases out of B.C. waters!”


THE Association of Vancouver Island and Coastal Communities MOTION PASSED!!!!

No doubt you will see more on TV and in newspapers soon!!
 
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More bad news for Fish Farms

”You may remember, back in December, the City of Victoria passed a motion asking the Province to transition away from open net-pen fish farms towards closed containment. This weekend, Victoria is bringing this motion to the Association of Vancouver Island and Coastal Communities (AVICC) convention, hoping to get it approved by the 53 member communities.

B.C. is now the only place on the west coast of North America that allows open net-pen fish farms.

If these resolutions pass at AVICC, they will be brought to the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in fall 2018. This would place massive pressure on Premier Horgan and Prime Minister Trudeau to get open net-pen fish farms and their diseases out of B.C. waters!”


THE Association of Vancouver Island and Coastal Communities MOTION PASSED!!!!

No doubt you will see more on TV and in newspapers soon!!

You'll see them in the ocean as long as there are native bands that want them in "their territory" no matter what anyone, Fed's or Prov has to say..let alone a municipal gov
 
and you'll also see them in FN territory who do NOT want them in their territory - like the Alert Bay bunch for but one example
 
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