Fish farming in Alaska video

[handee]

Has anyone seen this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qe7EJQTVPIk

Ok, quick poll , who thought Alaska had banned salmon farming?

 

[Dave H]

Ok, quick poll.

How many people here are so stupid as to believe that "ocean ranching," where fry are kept and fed for a couple of weeks before being released, is the same as the open net pen grow salmon to market size operations we have here?

Anyone???

Comparing apples to pomegranates.

Ian Robert's favorite little act.

Pathetic.

Take care.

 

[handee]

quote:Originally posted by Dave H

Ok, quick poll.

How many people here are so stupid as to believe that "ocean ranching," where fry are kept and fed for a couple of weeks before being released, is the same as the open net pen grow salmon to market size operations we have here?

Anyone???

Its apples and pomegranates

First off, in the case of Alaska its several months not a couple of weeks- and that makes a huge difference, fish can triple their size in a few weeks in a net pen.

Secondly the practice of releasing big pellet raised fry to outcompete and eat wild fish has been banned in Washington, Oregon and California- because its a destructive force against the wild. If you are a wild fry weighing 5 grams and you are confronted with 1 billion hatchery fish weighing 10-500 grams I'd say you'd have two concerns: 1) not finding enough food and 2) being eaten by your hungry competition.

So really its small apples being compared to larger apples.

 

[Rum Buddies]

there "may" be an issue as you describe it, but it still is no comparable to closed system farming.

 

[handee]

It is a huge problem, no "may" about it.

Releasing genetically screwed up fish (because they are sorted by man)from a hatchery or fattening them up in pens and then releasing them into the wild is clearly not a good idea. Over the last 10 years we have released billions of fry and the wild fish numbers keep going down. In fact there is growing evidence that ocean ranching and salmon enhancement (two dangerous forms of fish farming) are contributing to the problems faced by wild salmon.

People who like to kill wild salmon for fun and profit want to believe that releasing billions of farmed fry will one day work at no expense to the wild despite all evidence to the contrary.

Salmon farming keeps farmed fish and wild fish apart. They can't interbreed and they each have their own food supply.

 

[handee]

quote:Originally posted by handee

Has anyone seen this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qe7EJQTVPIk

Ok, quick poll , who thought Alaska had banned salmon farming?

David H, speaking of little acts: you didnt answer the question. Do you not call raising fish in pens for up to a year, complete with medicated pellet feed, and then letting them all go salmon farming? (its a form of salmon farming called ocean ranching)
Did you know Alaska salmon farmers are pleading with Congress to get on the Farm Bill so they can get access to cheap crop insurance and income stability programs? If it walks, talks and acts like a duck...

Keep in mind, because they ban salmon farming (wink, wink) they dont have any sticky regulations about drugs and medications. I have friends that worked up there- its a gong show, the fisherman (they dont like to call each other fish farmers cuz fish farming is banned doncha know) are the regulators.

 

[sockeyefry]

When the ocean ranching of Alaska is compared to BC salmon farming, the BC system has the lower impact on the wild salmon.

This is because although BC farms do have impacts, they are small and locallized. Alaska releases billions of well fed smolt onto the grazing areas of the bering sea, which is also where the real wild salmon go to graze. These un natural salmon are eating the food which would have been avaiable to the wild salmon. Maybe this is your real problem with "poor ocean survival"?

 

[gimp]

Spin spin spin

Where do you get your feeder fish from to make pellets and which fish are affected there


"First off, in the case of Alaska its several months not a couple of weeks"
Then you state.
"Do you not call raising fish in pens for up to a year"

Which is it?

PLEASE

 

[handee]

Its both gimp- depending on the farming company and the crop. Each company will do what they think is best soem will keep them longer than others depending on a whole bunch of factors.

Whats even scarier is that they will plant them wherever they like- nothing to do with natal streams or stock origin, but all to do where it is easiest to for the fishermen to fish them upon their return.

Usually if the fish are sick and they dont want to spend the money on another treatment they will just let them go early.

Same goes with our DFO hatcheries. One of Morton's early moves, about 15 years ago, is she started complaining to the papers that the fish farms were infecting the salmon in the river by her home. Samples were analyzed, investigations were done. Turns out the nearby DFO hatchery was the source of the infection. They had had a disease issue there for years. The hatchery solution to the disease issue was to release smolts early so they met their quota (on how many smolts they released) before they all died.

Salmon enhancement (US/Canada) and ocean ranching (Alaska) unlike net pen farming is virtually unregulated. There are virtually no rules about this stuff like when you release smolts or what kind of medications you are allowed to use- dont even need a vet to prescribe it.

But I guess im lying or spinning or something eh? You didnt answer my poll, did you know they farmed fish in Alaska?

 

[gimp]

Maybe this will help this was where I went to school

http://www.sjhatchery.org/

 

[handee]

quote:Originally posted by gimp

Spin spin spin

Where do you get your feeder fish from to make pellets and which fish are affected there

Hey I almost missed this one gimp. Classic bait and switch. If you want to discuss the source of fish feed used by DFO hatcheries, Alaska salmon farmers and the rest of the world's farmers you should start another topic. I warn you, the feed issue is one of my favourites.

Sneak preview: "wild" fish eat wild fish and convert at 10:1. Farm fish eat less wild fish because they convert at 3:1 (wet weights). So if we are going to eat fish that eat wild fish which is more efficient eating farm fish from ocean ranches, hatcheries or net pens ?

 

[handee]

quote:Originally posted by gimp

Maybe this will help this was where I went to school

http://www.sjhatchery.org/

HEY gimp I didnt know you were a fish farmer. Did you graduate?

 

[gimp]

LOL I am no fish farmer. Its a long story. I did not finish the program. The school spent the money from the fisheries program on the basketball program. My sophmore year our pumps went out. We lost everything. I learned then and there that SJC was about the adventures in basketball not learning. But yes I did want to raise salmon. I wanted to do it for a fishing lodge like Double Bay use to do back in the day. When I heard that fish farms were coming to the broughton I was excited. It was spun to the locals that it would help the local wild populations. Now it just makes me sad. Like the apostles. I am a fisherman.

Can you give me the name of the dfo hatchery in the broughton please? I have not heard about it. I know of a private one.

 

[Dave H]

Even a cursory look at the facts puts the lie to most of what comes from the keyboards of the industry apologists.
No lack of regulations in Alaska, no feeding pinks and chum for up to a year. And further, from the apologists we get....no mention of the Japanese program, the mistaken idea (or lie) that salmon go to the Bering Sea for feeding, true in El Nino years but not their feeding grounds normally, the feed conversion rate that the industry likes to ballyhoo.....the one from feed to farmed fish of course, not the ratio for how much feed and/or fish oil is retrieved per tonne of dead "groundfish," ....mostly the same old crap from the same old apologists with the same modus operandi.
Anyone can Google the truth up because you won't get much of it from these guys........the guys who answered my question: "How many people here are so stupid etc. etc.?"

Take care.

Methods and Technologies in Fish Biology and Fisheries
Ecological and Genetic Implications of Aquaculture Activities
10.1007/978-1-4020-6148-6_20
Theresa M. Bert

20. Productivity of Alaska's Salmon Hatchery Ocean Ranching Program and Management of Biological Risks to Wild Pacific Salmon
William W. Smoker3 and William R. Heard4

(3) Juneau Center, School of Fisheries & Ocean Science, University of Alaska Fairbanks, 11120 Glacier Highway, 99801 Juneau, Alaska, USA
(4) NOAA/NMFS-Auke Bay Laboratory, Alaska Fisheries Science Center, 11305 Glacier Highway, 99801 Juneau, Alaska, USA

Modern salmon hatcheries in Alaska were established in five regions of the state in the 1970s, when wild runs of salmon were at record low levels. Initially conceived as a state-run system, the Alaska program has evolved in the private sector and is centered on private, non-profit, regional aquaculture associations run by fishermen and other stakeholders. Presently, Alaska has 33 production hatcheries (14 hatcheries have closed). Many release over 100 million young salmon annually; between 1.3 and 1.4 billion are released in total. In 1975, hatcheries produced fewer than 20,000 adult salmon. During the 1990s, the Alaska program produced 27-54 million adult salmon annually, which accounted for 14-37% of the annual common-property salmon harvest. It is second in size and productivity to the Japanese ocean ranching program (approximately 2 billion fry released annually, 50-70 million salmon harvested). Pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) and chum salmon (O. keta), which are species released into the oceanic environment as postlarvae, comprise >80% of the hatchery production. Protection of wild-salmon fitness and rigorous evaluation of hatchery contribution to fisheries have been emphasized throughout the development of the Alaska ocean ranching program. Strict regulation by public-agency geneticists, pathologists, and fishery managers of hatchery siting, hatchery capacity, and transport of salmon between streams has reduced risks to wild-salmon fitness. Recent implementation of mass-marking technology has enabled harvest managers to protect wild salmon in mixed-stock fisheries from unsustainable fishing mortality. Both hatchery and wild stocks have experienced high marine survivals since the late 1970s, resulting in record salmon harvests through the 1990s.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[handee]

Very good dave. But are the fish that returning wild? Or is it just important to get the fish numbers into the boats?


handee

PS stay tuned for a rebut from Gunnar Knapp, Professor at the University of Alaska, who has been warning that Alaska's ocean ranching program is fish farming at its worst.

 

[gimp]

Still waiting for an answer handee where do the feeder fish come from and which fish are affected? Also what was the name of the hatchery?

 

[gimp]

quote:Originally posted by handee

It is a huge problem, no "may" about it.

Releasing genetically screwed up fish (because they are sorted by man)from a hatchery or fattening them up in pens and then releasing them into the wild is clearly not a good idea. Over the last 10 years we have released billions of fry and the wild fish numbers keep going down. In fact there is growing evidence that ocean ranching and salmon enhancement (two dangerous forms of fish farming) are contributing to the problems faced by wild salmon.

People who like to kill wild salmon for fun and profit want to believe that releasing billions of farmed fry will one day work at no expense to the wild despite all evidence to the contrary.

Salmon farming keeps farmed fish and wild fish apart. They can't interbreed and they each have their own food supply.

Sorry i just read this. At least the fish released in alaska are native to these waters IE NOT ALANTIC SALMON. The ones the fish farms release (ie escape) are not. To say that fish farms keep farmed fish away from wild stocks is a laughable joke as long as you have fish farms on migratory routes. Tell me what happens to the smolt swiming into the fish farm net pens? I think i understand what you are trying to say here but can you elaborat on this statement?

"People who like to kill wild salmon for fun and profit want to believe that releasing billions of farmed fry will one day work at no expense to the wild despite all evidence to the contrary."

1 Do you sportsfish in saltwater?
2. Do fish farms inavertantly kill wild salmon fry swimming into their net pens?
3 If you have answered #2 honestly lets look at your statement but change the word Releasing to raising and ponder that shal we?

 

[handee]

gimp ,

start a new topic for feed-its pretty technical. The fish farm feed comes from the same place as the hatchery feed by the way. As well as chicken, cattle and pork feed.


This topic is about farming fish in alaska and what the heck do we mean by "wild" salmon?

The hatchery could be private, I'll get back to you on the name of it, I havent thought of it for years. My buddy lives up there and he'll know. Meanwhile you could ask Morton. Also, who cares if its private or DFO or a combo? Is this another red herring gimp?

Whats so difficult aboout staying on topic? Do you acknowledge that ocean ranching as practiced in Alaska and salmon enhancement as practiced every where else are dangerous forms of fish farming as compared with how we farm fish in BC?

 

[handee]

quote:Originally posted by gimp

Originally posted by handee


At least the fish released in alaska are native to these waters IE NOT ALANTIC SALMON. The ones the fish farms release (ie escape) are not. To say that fish farms keep farmed fish away from wild stocks is a laughable joke as long as you have fish farms on migratory routes. Tell me what happens to the smolt swiming into the fish farm net pens? I think i understand what you are trying to say here but can you elaborat on this statement?

1 Do you sportsfish in saltwater?
2. Do fish farms inavertantly kill wild salmon fry swimming into their net pens?
3 If you have answered #2 honestly lets look at your statement but change the word Releasing to raising and ponder that shal we?

Hi gimp,
you made alot of points here:
1. At least the fish released in alaska are native to these waters -this is exactly the problem the native fish are being screwed with and then allowed to interbreed with wild stocks. Atlantics cannot interbreed with wild stocks.[b][/b]

2. To say that fish farms keep farmed fish away from wild stocks is a laughable joke as long as you have fish farms on migratory routes.- as stated above they cant interbreed AND, furthermore, the escape rate of fish farms is about .0002% (measured in thousands, sometimes hundreds and falling), the rate of escape from a SEP or Alaskan fish farms is 100.000% (measured in buillions and rising).

3. Tell me what happens to the smolt swiming into the fish farm net pens?-It gets ignored by fish conditioned and stuffed on pellets. studies by Hay show that even farm fish on starve will refuse to eat smaller fishes.

4.Do you sportsfish in saltwater? Not anymore. I dont hunt threatened species of animals or fish anymore. I used to be a sportfishing and a hunting guide

5.Do fish farms inavertantly kill wild salmon fry swimming into their net pens? No and its easy to study walk into a fish plant and examine the stomachs of farm fish that have been on starve. Its been done. Pellet fed fish prefer pellets. Escaped Atlantics are found with empty bellies. Its easy to repeat this study.

6. If you have answered #2 honestly lets look at your statement but change the word Releasing to raising and ponder that shall we?-gimp you lost me, im sure if you kept starving the farm fish for a really really long time and then filed the pen full of little fishes that some of the fishies would get eaten. My guess is if you maintained this completely artificial system for a really long time some farm fish would adapt to eating fishies and many would die of starvation. Probably another reason hatcheries get only a 2% return rate and call that a roaring success. What's your point here?

 

[sockeyefry]

Gimp,

We've been through this before. By feeder fish I assume you are referring to the source of the fish meal and oils which make up the fish feed? These feeder fish come from industrial fish meal fisheries mainly off of Peru and Chile. Although Agent aqua and myself have debated the validity and sustainability of this fishery, the facts remain that tyhe spource of feed for farmed salmon is not the same as the BC wild salmon feed source. However, the Billions of smolt released by Alaska are in direct competition with BC and US wild salmon stocks.

Handee, Welcome aboard, Nice to have a friendly on the forum.