Fish Farm trouble in BC.

[cuttlefish]

M

Math is hard.... Tell me where we find 30000 MT of salmon to fill the store shelves?

I do believe over 100,000 MT of Bristol Bay salmon were commercially harvested in 2017. If there is a shortage of supply in the marketplace, the cost will increase to dampen the demand. This argument of requiring more wild salmon supply to meet increasing demand is illogical. The argument of increasing the supply of protien to meet the demand of a growing population is logical but no one says it must be salmon.

 

[trophywife]

I am saying we can't increase the harvest of wild salmon at all. If we rid ourselves of the farms, something else will need to be sacrificed. Do we all agree that if the farms are eliminated, then the salmon quota for commercial fisheries should increase? If you say no, then who should be allowed to consume the publicly owned resource? Sporties? We are also a defined lobby group intent on protecting our interests. Why should the family in Ontario not be allowed to eat salmon from Canada's waters? So where do we supply it? Probably means the sport quotas need to be drastically reduced, prices will substantially rise, and likely there will be no change in the fishery. You can't have a record return of Sockeye to the fraser river one year (when the farms are all there) and then the next year blame the decline on fish farms. The proverbial suck and blow. Never works. Fix the problems but killing the industry is narrow minded and bound for failure.

you seem to miss the point of not ridding of them, but putting them on land and charging accordingly for an "incredible food source", for those who need to eat it. The family from ontario can eat that or come out west and put money into the economy by sport fishing.

 

[trophywife]

M

Math is hard.... Tell me where we find 30000 MT of salmon to fill the store shelves?

from closed containment on land. still missing that?

 

[trophywife]

Does this exist today and is it economically viable? Lets see how it works out or better yet, lets support a pilot program. Everyone on side, great who is accepting the donations for the promotion of this form of fish farming.

moneys to build should be from the industry that makes the profits? just like any other company. GET OUT OF THE WATER.

 

[spopadyn]

from closed containment on land. still missing that?

But it doesn't exist. Stop driving you diesel or gas boat and use and electric charge system. Also doesn't exist. Might be nice if it did and fully supportive of the eventual electric fishing boat, but banning yours today doesn't mean that an electric engine will appear by tomorrow. This is all about time and transition, or finding better and more efficient ways to use what we have today.

 

[trophywife]

But it doesn't exist. Stop driving you diesel or gas boat and use and electric charge system. Also doesn't exist. Might be nice if it did and fully supportive of the eventual electric fishing boat, but banning yours today doesn't mean that an electric engine will appear by tomorrow. This is all about time and transition, or finding better and more efficient ways to use what we have today.

deflect and delay.

 

[spopadyn]

you seem to miss the point of not ridding of them, but putting them on land and charging accordingly for an "incredible food source", for those who need to eat it. The family from ontario can eat that or come out west and put money into the economy by sport fishing.

Hopefully no one will decide that driving a 2625 Kingfisher is a ludicrous amount of carbon being expended for fishing. If we start a forum for people against gas guzzling fishing boats, I bet you switch sides in a heartbeat. As always, we need to pick our poison. "Anti" anything is never a solution. Support your industry and find better ways for it to grow.

Look, aquaculture comprises 5% of the worlds food sources. The earth is 70% water - this industry will grow and go to areas and jurisdictions that support and enable it to succeed. But, destroying it in Canada will not shut it down. I would much rather see a thriving and sustainable industry on our shores, then sitting in unregulated Chinese waters. The next battle by the environmentalists will be directed at us. Think about that. We support them by destroying our fish farming industry, then they will turn on the carbon footprint used by the sport fishing industry. This is coming so enjoy your false sense of security while it lasts....

 

[spopadyn]

deflect and delay.

Really? Tell everyone what your fuel efficiency is for that beautiful boat.....

 

[fogged in]

Really? Tell everyone what your fuel efficiency is for that beautiful boat.....

This post has nothing to do with the topic...Fish Farm trouble in B.C.

 

[fogged in]

You will find the following information in the extensive Fish Farm story in today’s Times Colonist.
Source Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
2017 Documentation of the first B.C. Fish Farm Atlantic Salmon with HSMI.
This was confirmed by Fish Farm biologist Dr. Gary Marty who stated that in his opinion 1 to 3 B.C Fish Farm Atlantic Salmon per 1000 has been infected with HSMI and died since 2006. I am assuming per year…a very conservative estimate for sure!!
It goes on to say as early as 2002 heart lesions were identified but never named as a specific disease.
Why…because DFO, Dr Marty and the Fish Farm owners claimed HSMI did not exist on the West Coast.
It is important to understand these Atlantic Salmon have died in Fish Farms with little or no stress.
Wild salmon on the other hand do not live under similar conditions.
I can’t help but wonder if the huge growth of Fish Farms since 2000 would have been permitted if we knew then what we know now?

 

[spopadyn]

You will find the following information in the extensive Fish Farm story in today’s Times Colonist.
Source Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
2017 Documentation of the first B.C. Fish Farm Atlantic Salmon with HSMI.
This was confirmed by Fish Farm biologist Dr. Gary Marty who stated that in that in his opinion 1 to 3 B.C Fish Farm Atlantic Salmon per 1000 has been infected with HSMI and died since 2006. I am assuming per year…a very conservative estimate for sure!!
It goes on to say as early as 2002 heart lesions were identified but never named as a specific disease.
Why…because DFO, Dr Marty and the Fish Farm owners claimed HSMI it did not exist on the West Coast.
It is important to understand these Atlantic Salmon have died in Fish Farms with little or no stress.
Wild salmon on the other hand do not live under similar conditions.
I can’t help but wonder if the huge growth of Fish Farms since 2000 would have been permitted if we knew then what we know now?

You are, dare I say, fogged in. I am not disputing real facts or concerns, mostly just trying to get people to find more progressive solutions. The argument on the boat is only irrelevant because you can't see that in this world everything is connected. Good luck, looking forward to being on the same side when you are called out for your deficiencies in how you fish. This is just to serve as a caution for all of us when we live in glass houses. You can't be an eco warrior and then switch sides when they come after you. Instead, a thoughtful more cooperative approach that attempts to recognize all the sides and points of views will be more successful.

 

[fogged in]

. I am not disputing real facts or concerns

You got that right!

 

[trophywife]

and enable it to succeed.

key words= enable it to succeed

 

[Birdsnest]

So thanks for the link Birdsnest. I read the paper in it's entirety and came away with more questions than answers. Especially since the Discussion concludes with; "Caution is therefore needed for current interpretations of the influence of PRV during manifestations of disease such as HSMI, as important components regarding disease causation are as yet unknown, and virulent manifestations of PRV in concert with cofactors such as viral co-infection [30], host condition, or specific environmental circumstances will need careful future consideration in understanding the role of PRV in diseases such as HSMI." Aslo, I could not find where they injected sockeye salmon with PRv. They did inject Atlantic salmon but used PRv naive sockeye only as sentinels in some of the cohabitation experiments.
Anyway, more more work needs to be done before anyone can come to a conclusive answer to the question of the role of NP PRv in either Atlantic Salmon or sockeye salmon.
What is clear to me is the serious infectious nature of PRv variants on other species of salmonids, i.e., rainbow trout, aka steelhead salmon (Oncorhinchus mykiss). http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0180293.
I can't emphasize enough my concerns with allowing a variant of PRv, even if it is a non-virulent strain, to be transferred into net pens holding hundreds of thousands of potential hosts for more than one year. Or, for that matter, to discharge PRv from a processing plant into the major migration route of naive wild salmon day after day after day. This is fundamentally stupid on the part of a responsible regulator and, as far as I am concerned, just asking for trouble.

Its in the study that injections were used:

Exposure studies utilized an intraperitoneal (i.p.) injection route as well as a waterborne challenge through cohabitation with naturally infected Atlantic salmon to systematically evaluate the transmission dynamics and whether challenge with PRV from western North America could result in the development of HSMI or other disease conditions.

 

[bigdogeh]

You are, dare I say, fogged in. I am not disputing real facts or concerns, mostly just trying to get people to find more progressive solutions. The argument on the boat is only irrelevant because you can't see that in this world everything is connected. Good luck, looking forward to being on the same side when you are called out for your deficiencies in how you fish. This is just to serve as a caution for all of us when we live in glass houses. You can't be an eco warrior and then switch sides when they come after you. Instead, a thoughtful more cooperative approach that attempts to recognize all the sides and points of views will be more successful.

I've listened and read the points of view of the fish farm proponents. It seems people in this forum interested in the fish farm debate are most likely to belong to part of a group employed or dependent on or have a back round involved in the fish farm industry in some way and support the open net pen fish farms, or part of the public and not happy with how they are being run at the moment. Where is the thoughtful more cooperative approach from the fish farm industry and there supporters that attempts to recognize all the sides and points of views of the people living in our province that have concerns regarding these open net pen fish farms? They (the fish farm industry and it's supporters) have been combative and dismissive to any mention of sea lice or disease/virus problems. To the point that they've had to be taken to court many times and no doubt will continue that trend into the future. It was asked that we should look at progressive solutions to the problems facing the industry.
There's already a progressive solution mentioned many times. RAS, Closed containment.
But as long as our governments are getting corporate handouts from Norweigan fish farm companies in exchange for corporate welfare paid by you, me and the environment, nothing will change unless there is push-back from the public. And as much as you wish that wasn't happening (push back from the public), it is and will continue to happen as long as there are open net pen fish farms on our wild salmon migratory routes. People are fed up with how our government and this industry is acting in regards to our environment and our wild salmon. And unless there is push-back, things won't change and our wild salmon and the animals, mammals and organisms that depend on them will suffer as well. .

This is just in the, what..? Last 6 months?


Look at the fish farm escapes...
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...-future-under-attack-on-both-sides-of-border/

look at the thousands of fish feed bags put into the environment.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/broken-islands-fish-farm-debris-spill-1.4413240

Look at the chemicals being dumped into our waters...
http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1264228
http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/salmon-farming-problems/environmental-impacts/chemical-treatments-slice/

The government is finally admitting we have diseased fish in our fish farms even though the signs have been there for years. If it wasn't for concerned scientists, biologists and the public, I doubt they would be admitting to this.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/farmed-salmon-bc-disease-hsmi-aquaculture-1.3593958

You ask wouldn't you rather see the industry here rather than somewhere in China where there are less regulations..? Show me where the regulations are being followed here? Are these world class regulations? Give me a break...! This is third world...hide the pollution and disease. Look the other way.. nothing more. It seems every day something dirty is cropping up with this industry and our (laughable) government regulators...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ants-released-contaminated-effluent-1.4423002

Look at the money being spent in court and a lot of it by you and me the taxpayer. And there will be more court cases in the future involving first nations that don't want these fish farms in their waters or territories.
https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/09/21/Fish-Farm-Occupations-Tensions/

Look at the millions of dollars spent studying these diseases and viruses (our taxpayer dollars), only to have our government ignore the results and outcomes of the studies and science.
https://www.watershed-watch.org/iss...-fraser-sockeye-inquiry/cohen-report-tracker/


Maybe take the time to read them. And think about what is at stake. I have. And I read the comments as well. I know who's side I want to be on. I choose the side of trying to protect what's left of the wild salmon and the environment over the few jobs and dollars going to a foreign government. Not on the "nothing to see here" or "it's all fake news", Trump side.


The technology is there for profitable closed containment. And investors are investing in it and building it as we speak. If I was a fish farm employee I'd be trying to learn all I can about RAS to try to be relevant when my job might disappear if I wanted to stay relevant in the industry. And if I had money invested in these open net pen fish farms I'd be transitioning it over to a closed containment company as that is the future. Deny it if you like. We gave away our mills to ship raw logs closer to the source (consumer). We'll be tearing out these open net pen invasive fish farms in the same way once they have to compete with closed containment, guilt free, pesticide, virus, and antibiotic free, organic sustainable fish. And when they don't have the sustainable certifications that these closed containment fish will have. The same way large company purchasers purchase wood products from companies that show they run sustainable forests, etc. If your company doesn't show or acts with a lack of ethics, it doesn't do well and won't compete on the world market. And These large open net pen fish farms are really lacking in that (ethics) department lately and it doesn't seem to be improving or getting better.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainability-key-corporate-success

Here's a point of view for you regarding our boats since you thought you would make a comment on that...
We'll be selling our boats since we won't need them once the wild salmon are gone anyway if these open net pen fish farms continue operating on our wild salmon migratory routes. ... or maybe we can keep our boats and pull up to an open net pen invasive atlantic salmon farm with our grandchildren and toss a float in with a hook with a fish pellet on it. That sounds like fun...(sarcasm in-case you didn't get it...)

 

[bones]

I've listened and read the points of view of the fish farm proponents. It seems people in this forum interested in the fish farm debate are most likely to belong to part of a group employed or dependent on or have a back round involved in the fish farm industry in some way and support the open net pen fish farms, or part of the public and not happy with how they are being run at the moment. Where is the thoughtful more cooperative approach from the fish farm industry and there supporters that attempts to recognize all the sides and points of views of the people living in our province that have concerns regarding these open net pen fish farms? They (the fish farm industry and it's supporters) have been combative and dismissive to any mention of sea lice or disease/virus problems. To the point that they've had to be taken to court many times and no doubt will continue that trend into the future. It was asked that we should look at progressive solutions to the problems facing the industry.
There's already a progressive solution mentioned many times. RAS, Closed containment.
But as long as our governments are getting corporate handouts from Norweigan fish farm companies in exchange for corporate welfare paid by you, me and the environment, nothing will change unless there is push-back from the public. And as much as you wish that wasn't happening (push back from the public), it is and will continue to happen as long as there are open net pen fish farms on our wild salmon migratory routes. People are fed up with how our government and this industry is acting in regards to our environment and our wild salmon. And unless there is push-back, things won't change and our wild salmon and the animals, mammals and organisms that depend on them will suffer as well. .

This is just in the, what..? Last 6 months?


Look at the fish farm escapes...
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...-future-under-attack-on-both-sides-of-border/

look at the thousands of fish feed bags put into the environment.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/broken-islands-fish-farm-debris-spill-1.4413240

Look at the chemicals being dumped into our waters...
http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1264228
http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/salmon-farming-problems/environmental-impacts/chemical-treatments-slice/

The government is finally admitting we have diseased fish in our fish farms even though the signs have been there for years. If it wasn't for concerned scientists, biologists and the public, I doubt they would be admitting to this.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/farmed-salmon-bc-disease-hsmi-aquaculture-1.3593958

You ask wouldn't you rather see the industry here rather than somewhere in China where there are less regulations..? Show me where the regulations are being followed here? Are these world class regulations? Give me a break...! It seems every day something dirty is cropping up with this industry and our government regulators...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ants-released-contaminated-effluent-1.4423002

Look at the money being spent in court and a lot of it by you and me the taxpayer. And there will be more court cases in the future involving first nations that don't want these fish farms in their waters or territories.
https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/09/21/Fish-Farm-Occupations-Tensions/

Look at the millions of dollars spent studying these diseases and viruses (our taxpayer dollars), only to have our government ignore the results and outcomes of the studies and science.
https://www.watershed-watch.org/iss...-fraser-sockeye-inquiry/cohen-report-tracker/


Maybe take the time to read them. And think about what is at stake. I have. And I read the comments as well. I know who's side I want to be on. I choose the side of trying to protect what's left of the wild salmon and the environment over the few jobs and dollars going to a foreign government. Not on the "nothing to see here" or "it's all fake news", Trump side.


The technology is there for profitable closed containment. And investors are investing in it and building it as we speak. If I was a fish farm employee I'd be trying to learn all I can about RAS to try to be relevant when my job might disappear if I wanted to stay relevant in the industry. And if I had money invested in these open net pen fish farms I'd be transitioning it over to a closed containment company as that is the future. Deny it if you like. We gave away our mills to ship raw logs closer to the source (consumer). We'll be tearing out these open net pen invasive fish farms in the same way once they have to compete with closed containment, guilt free, pesticide, virus, and antibiotic free, organic sustainable fish. And when they don't have the sustainable certifications that these closed containment fish will have. The same way large company purchasers purchase wood products from companies that show they run sustainable forests, etc. If your company doesn't show or acts with a lack of ethics, it doesn't do well and won't compete on the world market. And These large open net pen fish farms are really lacking in that (ethics) department lately and it doesn't seem to be improving or getting better.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainability-key-corporate-success

Here's a point of view for you regarding our boats since you thought you would make a comment on that...
We'll be selling our boats since we won't need them once the wild salmon are gone anyway if these open net pen fish farms continue operating on our wild salmon migratory routes. ... or maybe we can keep our boats and pull up to a wild salmon farm with our grandchildren and toss a float in with a hook with a fish pellet on it. That sounds like fun...(sarcasm in-case you didn't get it...)

So now what?
Whats the anti fish farm group going to do?
All the science and still no dead fish......
With all this evidence how many wild salmon die every year?
Without this information your bus is stuck in the parking lot. This topic will go on forever....
What current science projects are underway regarding filling in this missing information?

 

[bones]

moneys to build should be from the industry that makes the profits? just like any other company. GET OUT OF THE WATER.

Taxpayers will be on the hook for moving an industry to land. The industry will argue they have been following the current law and lease.

The anti fish farm group keep complaining about the great environmental impacts that farms creates. Have you stopped to think about the impacts putting them on land would create? Putt said industry on land has huge environmental impacts....far greater than water ever will. Where will saltwater come from? What do the fish swim around in come from? Will there be a need for power?
Everything water systems provide will need to be created on land and that's a huge impact.
Your thoughts?

 

[GLG]

Taxpayers will be on the hook for moving an industry to land. The industry will argue they have been following the current law and lease.

Do you have some evidence to backup this claim? The fish farms are on lease property from the province and if the province say's you're done then your done.

 

[bigdogeh]

Taxpayers will be on the hook for moving an industry to land. The industry will argue they have been following the current law and lease.

The anti fish farm group keep complaining about the great environmental impacts that farms creates. Have you stopped to think about the impacts putting them on land would create? Putt said industry on land has huge environmental impacts....far greater than water ever will. Where will saltwater come from? What do the fish swim around in come from? Will there be a need for power?
Everything water systems provide will need to be created on land and that's a huge impact.
Your thoughts?

The taxpayers won't be on the hook for anything if the industry doesn't set up here. Why would they set up here when they can set up much closer to where the main bulk of their consumers are?
My thoughts are they already have it figured out. They have a successful model (actually more than 1) running in Norway already. They plan to scale up their business model in the US. The industry and money will transition to land. Did you notice the wind power at their RAS setup in Norway? Why do you think this Norweigan company, Atlantic Saphire chose Florida to set up? Could it be that most of Florida is an aquifer and the water table is directly below them? An unlimited supply of water. Could it be that the large population in that area and the fact that it is a hub with access to the entire US, and there will be no borders to cross is a plus for that company?
You want answers to your questions? Maybe you should read up and do a little study on their company. The answers are there. And the writings on the wall.

 

[terrin]

deflect and delay.

Good comments TW Like I posted earlier just a new circle by a Open Cage Fish Farm proponent.