Fish Farm trouble in BC.

[Birdsnest]

And we have buffer zones between bison and domesticated cattle due to brucellosis and anthrax disease transmission concerns - yet nothing similar for open FF net-pens in the oceans where even the water moves. Good example, BN! Thanks!

You are suggesting that your buffer zone eliminates the risk however you can not guarantee that. An additional half truth. Farming animals has risks, period.
You can attack Marty extensively however if you are trying to prove that PRV harms wild pacific species of salmon you are failing miserably.

 

[agentaqua]

You are suggesting that your buffer zone eliminates the risk however you can not guarantee that. An additional half truth. Farming animals has risks, period. You can attack Marty extensively however if you are trying to prove that PRV harms wild pacific species of salmon you are failing miserably.

Negative. Never did I state such a thing.

It is, however - risk management & due diligence using the Precautionary Approach - by responsible regulators whom take their jobs seriously and professionally when attempting to decrease serious wild/cultured stock interactions - as apposed to the ones regulating open net-pen industry ...

What proof do you offer that PRv doesn't hard wild salmon? I see none.

 

[Birdsnest]

For

Negative. Never did I state such a thing.

It is, however - risk management & due diligence using the Precautionary Approach - by responsible regulators whom take their jobs seriously and professionally when attempting to decrease serious wild/cultured stock interactions - as apposed to the ones regulating open net-pen industry ...

What proof do you offer that PRv doesn't hard wild salmon? I see none.

lol. for a well read individual,given your track record, I’m not surprised you missed it. It’s the the prv dfo link I have quoted previously.

 

[Birdsnest]

One more time:

However, unlike in Norway, as yet, all experimental exposures of the BC strain of PRV to Pacific and Atlantic salmon in BC have failed to induce disease or mortality. This suggests PRV in BC has a low ability to cause disease (low virulence) for these species (Garver et al. 2016a; Garver et al. 2016b).

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0146229

 

[Birdsnest]

Remember how activist lead everyone that PRV was brought to bc by the salmon farming industry. This is absolutely false however activist are still more than willing to lead the public in believing that misinformation.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141475

"However, there is little supporting epidemiological evidence for this hypothesis as there were no documented direct imports of fish eggs into western North America from Norway in that time frame. Additionally, a survey of archived samples by Marty et al (2014) [11] found that PRV RNA was common in fish tissues in B.C. since 1987, and was likely present as early as 1977. The distribution of PRV from Alaska to Washington State further suggests that the virus has been established in western North America for a long enough time to become relatively widespread."

 

[GLG]

Again you aggressively want to turn a blind eye to the effect PRV is having on wild pacific which is ZERO. Dont attack me the messenger, go after the peer reviews science. PRV is everywhere. It is dishonest and unscientific to only look at it at the farm level. The last few post have done nothing but deflect from my point that PRV NP has no effect on wild/enhance pacific salmon stocks.

I dont own a farm.

If it was zero effect then why did DFO and the fish farms not appeal when this 2017 study was published?
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0171471
We know the story as it was posted by AA in post #507 here is another helpful link for you just incase you missed it. https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/02/27/BC-Salmon-Farm-Disease-Confirmed/
You can repeat that this virus has no effect but does not change the fact that it does and we need to come up with solutions for your industry and our wild salmon. After all we both want what is best for wild salmon don't we?

Thanks for telling me that you don't own a fish farm but that was not what I asked. I asked if you had PRV on your fish farm .... the one you work for.

 

[Birdsnest]

I get that you glg and others will urgently try to attach pvr to me or salmon farms but I have clearly provided it has been found up and down the coast of bc alaska and the down to CA in wild salmon. Im surprised you would ask since you very well know what your answer is. Thats dishonest.

 

[Birdsnest]

If it was zero effect then why did DFO and the fish farms not appeal when this 2017 study was published?
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0171471
We know the story as it was posted by AA in post #507 here is another helpful link for you just incase you missed it. https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/02/27/BC-Salmon-Farm-Disease-Confirmed/
You can repeat that this virus has no effect but does not change the fact that it does and we need to come up with solutions for your industry and our wild salmon. After all we both want what is best for wild salmon don't we?

Thanks for telling me that you don't own a fish farm but that was not what I asked. I asked if you had PRV on your fish farm .... the one you work for.

Please show me where NP PRV effect pacific species of salmon. Your saying it does but I already clearly challenged you to show me the information. You have not.

 

[terrin]

Wow. This forum is crazy. Full of conspiracies, half truths, edited facts...Yikes. Citing a court decision as a proof of science is blatantly wrong. However, the long and short of it is this...

How can we improve our aqua culture such that any negative impacts will be so small that they are manageable and allow us sustainability? Putting our heads in the sand and pretending that we can make them disappear is juvenile and not really trying to protect the resource - wild salmon.

We should work to create standards that are vigilantly adhered to but that are also fair and economically sound. When a company successfully follows the standards and achieves success, we should allow for growth and applaud profitability. We cannot get rid of fish farms no more then we can get rid of oil and gas.

WE the people of B.C. don't want anything to do with open cage fish farms. We don't want to risk our Wild Salmon. We don't want our Killer Whales to go extinct. We want your discharge treated to a sterile standard and disipated onshore.We the people of B.C. want your
Corporations to take your Farms onshore or go back to Norway. You not We should of excersised the Precautionery Principle in terms of Standards and obtained environmental assessments before siting your Farms. You have destroyed your Social Licence and all public confidence that your Fish Farms ever intended to be environmentally sustainable by your actions specifically to always go to the route of greater profits over concern to negative impacts. In the case of Our Wild Salmon and all that depend on them We prefer sustainability of Wild fish over over growth and profitability of your farmed fish. Money can't buy everything.

 

[agentaqua]

Critique of the Document “Information Regarding Concerns about Farmed Salmon --‐ Wild Salmon Interactions” Presented to the Provincial Government of British Columbia by Gary Marty, D.V.M., Ph.D., Diplomate, A.C.V.P. of the British Columbia Ministry of Agriculture, Animal Health Centre, Abbotsford.

Authors of this critique: Lawrence M. Dill1, Martin Krkosek2, Brendan Connors3, Stephanie J. Peacock4, Andrew W. Bateman5, Richard Routledge6, Mark A. Lewis7, and John Reynolds8

1 Professor Emeritus, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University 2 Assistant Professor, Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of Toronto 3 Senior Systems Ecologist, ESSA Technologies, and Adjunct Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University 4 PhD Candidate, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta 5 Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Alberta and Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, University of Toronto 6 Professor, Department of Statistics and Actuarial Science, Simon Fraser University 7 Professor and Senior Canada Research Chair, Departments of Biological Sciences and Mathematical and Statistical Sciences, University of Alberta 8 Professor and Tom Buell BC Leadership Chair in Aquatic Conservation, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University

6. Dr. Marty failed to consider emerging and evolving diseases that have the potential to impact wild salmon populations.

Evidence continues to emerge of viruses associated with salmon aquaculture that pose a potential threat to wild salmon, and the potential for cumulative and interactive effects of multiple infections by different viruses (e.g., 55). Piscine reovirus (PRV) is widely acknowledged as present and widespread in British Columbia – in trout as well as salmon (56, 57). There is strong evidence of an association between PRV and the disease, heart and skeletal muscle inflammation (HMSI; 58, 59), if not a direct cause--‐and--‐effect relationship (60). Dr. Marty′s commentary on PRV fails to mention these papers. His dismissal of the potential for PRV to cause HSMI in wild Pacific salmon is based on the fact that HSMI has not been observed in wild salmon; however, it is important to bear in mind that infected wild fish may not survive for long once they develop disease (61).

The piscine myocarditis virus (PMCV), associated with cardiomyopathy syndrome (CMS), also warrants attention. CMS was described first in wild Atlantic salmon in 2003 (62), and it has been subsequently shown that the most likely causative agent is PMCV (63). In addition, it is possible that PMCV is present in British Columbia waters; potential symptoms of CMS in British Columbian farmed salmon was documented in 2002 (64). Similarly, the threat of salmon alphavirus (SAV) on Pacific salmon and trout should not be taken lightly given evidence of impacts of this virus on rainbow trout (65).

55. Lovoll M, et al. (2010) A novel totivirus and piscine reovirus (PRV) in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) with cardiomyopathy syndrome (CMS). Virol J 7:309--‐315.
56. Marty GD, Morrison DB, Bidulka J, Joseph T, Siah A. (2014) Piscine reovirus in wild and farmed salmonids in British Columbia, Canada: 1974--‐2013. J Fish Dis. DOI: 10.1111/jfd.12285
57. Kibenge MJT, Iwamoto T, Wang Y, Morton A, Godoy MG, Kibenge FSB (2013) Whole--‐ genome analysis of piscine reovirus (PRV) shows PRV represents a new genus in family Reoviridae and its genome segment S1 sequences group it into two separate sub--‐genotypes. Virol J DOI: 10.1186/1743--‐422X--‐10--‐230
58. Palacios G, et al. (2010) Heart and skeletal muscle inflammation of farmed salmon is associated with infection with a novel reovirus. PLoS One 5(7):3–9
59. Finstad OW, Falk K, Lovoll M, Evensen O, Rimstad E (2012) Immunohistochemical detection of piscine reovirus (PRV) in hearts of Atlantic salmon coincide with the course of heart and skeletal muscle inflammation (HSMI). Vet Res 43:27.
60. Finstad OW, Dahle MK, Lindholm TH, Nyman IB, Lovoll M, Wallace C, Olsen CM, Storset AK, Rimstad E (2014) Piscine orthoreovirus (PRV) infects Atlantic salmon erythrocytes. Acta Vet Scand 45(1): 35.
61. McVicar AH (1997) Disease and parasite implications of the coexistence of wild and cultured Atlantic salmon populations. ICES J Mar Sci J du Cons 54:1093–1103.
62. Poppe TT, Seierstad SL (2003) First description of cardiomyopathy syndrome (CMS)--‐ related lesions in wild Atlantic salmon Salmo salar in Norway. Dis Aquat Organ 56:87–88.
63. Bockerman I, Wiik--‐Nielsen CR, Sindre H, Johansen R, Tengs T (2011) Prevalence of piscine myocarditis virus (PMCV) in marine fish species. J Fish Dis 34:955–957.
64. Brocklebank J, Raverty S (2002) Sudden mortality caused by cardiac deformities following seining of preharvest farmed Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) and by cardiomyopathy of postintraperitoneally vaccinated Atlantic salmon parr in British Columbia. Can Vet J 43:129–130.
65. Taksdal T, Olsen AB, Bjerkas I, Hjortaas MJ, Dannevig BH, Graham DA, McLoughlin MF (2007) Pancreas disease in farmed Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L., and rainbow trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum), in Norway. J Fish Dis 30:545–558.

 

[Birdsnest]

Still waiting for the papers that show harm to pacific salmonid species via pvr. All Im getting is the attacks on Marty.

What cant you self described experts understand. They took pacific PRV and injected it into pacific species to see if it made them sick. It did not.

 

[agentaqua]

Well, if you believe that: "inflammatory lesions in heart and skeletal muscle tissue" is not an indicator of "making them sick" - not sure what else to say here anymore - except that is a prime example of why we shouldn't have people promoting the open net-cage industry - regulating it...

 

[Birdsnest]

Show me in this study which applies directly to pacific species where you have quoted that from that was a result on a pacific salmon from being directly blatantly obviously injected with PRV. Be honest. I cant help but notice you did not provide a link in your last post. Care to do so?

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0146229

 

[GLG]

I get that you glg and others will urgently try to attach pvr to me or salmon farms but I have clearly provided it has been found up and down the coast of bc alaska and the down to CA in wild salmon. Im surprised you would ask since you very well know what your answer is. Thats dishonest.

I'm not trying to pin PRv on you or anybody else for that matter as I think where it came from and when did it get here is still under investigation. I see that there is evidence on both sides through DNA and I'll wait till the facts are in on that one. At this point I see it is very important to acknowledge that it is a problem and try to find solutions. We are running out of time. No I was not sure you had PRv on your location as it's not everywhere. As for evidence that wild fish are sick..... when was the last time you saw a sick or dying salmon on the bottom of the ocean? Did we sample it and find HSMI? Thankfully we have some smart scientist that can help us answer the question, one step at a time. I'll attach a study that may be of real interest for you.

 

[Birdsnest]

I'm not trying to pin PRv on you or anybody else for that matter as I think where it came from and when did it get here is still under investigation. I see that there is evidence on both sides through DNA and I'll wait till the facts are in on that one. At this point I see it is very important to acknowledge that it is a problem and try to find solutions. We are running out of time. No I was not sure you had PRv on your location as it's not everywhere. As for evidence that wild fish are sick..... when was the last time you saw a sick or dying salmon on the bottom of the ocean? Did we sample it and find HSMI? Thankfully we have some smart scientist that can help us answer the question, one step at a time. I'll attach a study that may be of real interest for you.

Where is the problem? Ive shown you that NP PVR was injected directly into pacific stocks and they did not become sick, die or even show a symptom of HSMI. You did not disprove this fact so I assume you agree. So where is the problem?

 

[terrin]

Remember how activist lead everyone that PRV was brought to bc by the salmon farming industry. This is absolutely false however activist are still more than willing to lead the public in believing that misinformation.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141475

"However, there is little supporting epidemiological evidence for this hypothesis as there were no documented direct imports of fish eggs into western North America from Norway in that time frame. Additionally, a survey of archived samples by Marty et al (2014) [11] found that PRV RNA was common in fish tissues in B.C. since 1987, and was likely present as early as 1977. The distribution of PRV from Alaska to Washington State further suggests that the virus has been established in western North America for a long enough time to become relatively widespread."

Salmonid tissues tested for PRV by real-time rRT-PCR included sections from archived paraffin blocks from 1974 to 2008 (n = 363) and fresh-frozen hearts from 2013 (n = 916). The earliest PRV-positive sample was from a wild-source steelhead trout, Oncorhynchus mykiss (Walbaum), from 1977. Archived paraffin samples from 1974 to 1994 were from the histology laboratory of the Pacific Biological Station, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada. Blocks were selected to include a range of years and a mixture of farmed salmon and salmonids sampled from the wild or from enhancement hatcheries. Records related to many of these samples are incomplete, but in all cases, the year of sample collection is known. In some cases, tissues from a single fish seem to be distributed in more than one paraffin block, but these records are also unclear; therefore, prevalence for these samples is based on the known number of paraffin blocks rather than the unknown number of fish. As an estimate of the preservative that was used, tissue colouration was recorded when the paraffin sections were processed for rRT-PCR analysis: yellow (probably Bouin's fixative) or normal (probably Davidson's fixative); during these years, the Pacific Biological Station did not use 10% neutral buffered formalin (W. Bennett, DFO, personal communication). One parrafin sample from 1977 with incomplete records. Pretty spotty if you ask me.

 

[fogged in]

Some may call it in support of Fish Farms, others damning, but the stories, front page and Islander front as well as full page follow-ups certainly will give many an insight into this complicated problem of Fish Farms and Wild Salmon!
5 pages of coverages!
A good read, which will no doubt result in a writing award for Amy Smart!!
I am not sure if I can copy the links to my digital edition and I am having even more trouble trying to copy the Islander link but this is the Page on story....
http://digital.timescolonist.com/epaper/viewer.aspx#
no doubt some one on this forum can help

 

[agentaqua]

http://timescolonist.com/life/islander/b-c-fish-farms-a-tangled-net-1.23111384

 

[agentaqua]

from the Miller attachment GLG kindly provided:

Miller KM, Günther OP, Li S, Kaukinen KH, Ming TJ (2017) Molecular indices of viral disease development in wild migrating salmon. Conserv Physiol 5(1): cox036; doi:10.1093/conphys/cox036.

p. 28:

“Importantly, the diseases caused by these viruses [Viruses PMCv, PRv and Salmon alphavirus (Sav)], all of which cause inflammation of the heart, can affect swimming behavior, causing either lethargy or erratic swimming (McLoughlin et al., 2002; Kongtorp et al., 2004; Haugland et al., 2011), sub-lethal physiological impacts that may not be detrimental to farmed fish (i.e. a slow day on the farm) but carry significantly enhanced risk of predation in wild fish.

PRv has been associated both with HSMI in Atlantic salmon and jaundice syndrome-related diseases in Pacific salmon in Norway (Rainbow trout—Olsen et al., 2015) and Chile (Coho salmon—Godoy et al., 2016). While challenge studies with the North American strain of PRv (98% similar to strains in Norway) have not resulted in compelling evidence of disease (Garver et al., 2015, 2016), clearly both diseases described in farmed salmon in Norway and Chile do exist in association with PRv in BC (Di Cicco et al., 2017; Miller, unpublished data), and wild fish with the outward appearance of jaundice (yellowing of the belly and under the eye) have been observed.

The fact that this virus can be observed in both farm and wild settings, sometimes at modest to high loads, in the absence of histological presentation of disease, has caused some to question whether PRv can cause disease in wild fish (Garseth et al., 2013; Marty et al., 2015).

However, our analyses of farm audit salmon provided evidence that the VDD biomarkers were able to discriminate fish diagnosed with HSMI (Atlantic salmon) and jaundice (Pacific salmon), both associated with PRv, from viral negative fish and from fish diagnosed with bacterial or parasitic diseases. For many viruses, challenge studies have already demonstrated impacts on physiological performance, which as suggested previously, may enhance impacts of sub-lethal disease in wild fish.

Secondary impacts associated with enhanced predation risk may ensue if visual acuity, swim performance, and/or feeding and growth are affected (Miller et al., 2014). Impacts on swim performance have been demonstrated in association with disease from IHNv, ISAv, IPNv, VHSv (Meyers, 2006), PMCv (Haugland et al., 2011) and PRv (Kongtorp et al., 2004).

Impacts on feeding and growth, which may also have ramification on size-selective predation and energetic potential for predation escapement, have also been demonstrated for IPNv (Meyers, 2006), PRv (Kongtorp et al., 2004), SAv (McLoughlin et al., 1998) and VHSv (Baulaurier et al., 2012). Enhanced pathogenicity has been demonstrated for several viruses in association with elevated water temperatures (IHNv—La Patra et al., 1979, IPNv— Dobos and Roberts, 1983, VEN/ENV—Korsnes et al., 2005).

As a result, these viruses may show stronger impacts on both wild and farmed salmon in a warming climate.”

Fred Kibenge's lab found the same thing wrt elevated water temperatures being a trigger... Bad news for those returning salmon going upstream in the middle of the summer....

 

[spopadyn]

WE the people of B.C. don't want anything to do with open cage fish farms. We don't want to risk our Wild Salmon. We don't want our Killer Whales to go extinct. We want your discharge treated to a sterile standard and disipated onshore.We the people of B.C. want your
Corporations to take your Farms onshore or go back to Norway. You not We should of excersised the Precautionery Principle in terms of Standards and obtained environmental assessments before siting your Farms. You have destroyed your Social Licence and all public confidence that your Fish Farms ever intended to be environmentally sustainable by your actions specifically to always go to the route of greater profits over concern to negative impacts. In the case of Our Wild Salmon and all that depend on them We prefer sustainability of Wild fish over over growth and profitability of your farmed fish. Money can't buy everything.

By we, don't you mean "me"?