Emergency SFAB Meetings About Proposed SRKW Fishing Closures

Bought and paid for by the oil lobby. What could possibly go wrong with that?
https://www.desmogblog.com/directory/vocabulary/4186

Point is you simply can’t believe anything you see / read out there.

More than ever it’s all about opinion rather than facts. People see things on the internet and social media a take it as the full story.

Facts and research are just manipulated / selected to support a view.
 
Point is you simply can’t believe anything you see / read out there.

More than ever it’s all about opinion rather than facts. People see things on the internet and social media a take it as the full story.

Facts and research are just manipulated / selected to support a view.

Point taken.... :)
 
Point taken.... :)

The secondary topic of this thread is really that in a nutshell.

Certain groups trying to push their agenda using selective data and political avenues / social media.

We, as anglers, certainly have our own interests. We just don’t band together and put our “facts” out there...as many have previously stated on this thread.

Sounds like there is a decent understanding of the Chinook take by sports fishers. Which is relatively modest.

What isn’t well publicized is the real economic value created by salmon fishing in BC. It must be a big number...

I would also like to know much time and money is contributed by the sector for salmon restoration and enhancement activities. All these calls for banning fishing would result in far less $ going to help these fish which feed the whales. Careful what you wish for.

I really wish we could create a mandatory “membership” with an annual fee attached to all pacific tidal fishing licenses. All $ would go back in to 1. supporting the resource and 2. Creating a unified voice for the angling community.

I know this type of stuff has been discussed on here before.

Maybe I don’t speak for everyone, but my view is the price we pay to access the resource is comically low. I would almost say it’s free. It shouldn’t be. $20 per year per angler would do a lot and couldn’t possible be enough deter anyone for fishing the salt. Add that to the $6 PSF gets and we would be headed in the right direction.

As it stands, we pay the most to take the least (my simple guess). And we are all probably willing to pay more, so long as it gets to the right places.

Apologies for the rambling / verbal diarrhoea.
 
Largest Chinook salmon disappearing from West Coast
Michelle Ma
| | |

February 27, 2018


A Chinook salmon pictured in Oregon’s McKenzie River. This adult fish is smaller than its predecessors.Morgan Bond

The largest and oldest Chinook salmon — fish also known as “kings” and prized for their exceptional size — have mostly disappeared along the West Coast.

That’s the main finding of a new University of Washington-led study published Feb. 27 in the journal Fish and Fisheries. The researchers analyzed nearly 40 years of data from hatchery and wild Chinook populations from California to Alaska, looking broadly at patterns that emerged over the course of four decades and across thousands of miles of coastline. In general, Chinook salmon populations from Alaska showed the biggest reductions in age and size, with Washington salmon a close second.

“Chinook are known for being the largest Pacific salmon and they are highly valued because they are so large,” said lead author Jan Ohlberger, a research scientist in the UW’s School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences. “The largest fish are disappearing, and that affects subsistence and recreational fisheries that target these individuals.”

Chinook salmon are born in freshwater rivers and streams, then migrate to the ocean where they spend most of their lives feeding and growing to their spectacular body size. Each population’s lifestyle in the ocean varies, mainly depending on where they can find food. California Chinook salmon tend to stay in the marine waters off the coast, while Oregon and Washington fish often migrate thousands of miles northward along the west coast to the Gulf of Alaska where they feed. Western Alaska populations tend to travel to the Bering Sea.

After one to five years in the ocean, the fish return to their home streams, where they spawn and then die.

Despite these differences in life history, most populations analyzed saw a clear reduction in the average size of the returning fish over the last four decades — up to 10 percent shorter in length, in the most extreme cases.


A historically large Chinook salmon from the Columbia River. This photo was taken in 1925 in Astoria, Oregon.Columbia River Maritime Museum

These broad similarities point to a cause that transcends regional fishing practices, ecosystems, or animal behaviors, the authors said.

“This suggests that there is something about the larger ocean environment that is driving these patterns,” Ohlberger said. “I think fishing is part of the story, but it’s definitely not sufficient to explain all of the patterns we see. Many populations are exploited at lower rates than they were 20 to 30 years ago.”

It used to be common to find Chinook salmon 40 inches or more in length, particularly in the Columbia River or Alaska’s Kenai Peninsula and Copper River regions. The reductions in size could have a long-term impact on the abundance of Chinook salmon, because smaller females carry fewer eggs, so over time the number of fish that hatch and survive to adulthood may decrease.

There are likely many reasons for the changes in size and age, and the researchers say there is no “smoking gun.” Their analysis, however, points to fishing pressure and marine mammal predation as two of the bigger drivers.

Commercial and sport fishing have for years targeted larger Chinook. But fishing pressure has relaxed in the last 30 years due to regulations to promote sustainable fishing rates, while the reductions in Chinook size have been most rapid over the past 15 years. Resident killer whales, which are known Chinook salmon specialists, as well as other marine mammals that feed on salmon are probably contributing to the overall changes, the researchers found.

“We know that resident killer whales have a very strong preference for eating the largest fish, and this selectivity is far greater than fisheries ever were,” said senior author Daniel Schindler, a UW professor of aquatic and fishery sciences.


Chinook salmon, shorter in length than in earlier years, swim in Oregon’s McKenzie River.Morgan Bond

While southern resident killer whales that inhabit Puget Sound are in apparent decline, populations of northern resident killer whales, and those that reside in the Gulf of Alaska and along the Aleutian Islands, appear to be growing at extremely fast rates. The paper’s authors propose that these burgeoning northern populations are possibly a critical, but poorly understood, cause of the observed declines in Chinook salmon sizes.

Scientists are still trying to understand the impacts of orcas and other marine mammals on Chinook salmon, and the ways in which their relationships may have ebbed and flowed in the past. It may not be possible, for example, for marine mammals and Chinook salmon populations to be robust at the same time, given their predator-prey relationship.

“When you have predators and prey interacting in a real ecosystem, everything can’t flourish all the time,” Schindler said. “These observations challenge our thinking about what we expect the structure and composition of our ecosystems to be.”

Co-authors are Eric Ward of NOAA’s Northwest Fisheries Science Center and Bert Lewis of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

This study was funded by the Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission.
 
I’m sure by now many people on here have read the paper on Proposed Management Measures for salmon to support prey available to SRKW

They zone in on 2 core areas recreational anglers can contribute. Those are 1) reduce physical and acoustic disturbance and 2) reduce competition for prey.

One of the key questions being asked of the Rec community is what voluntary measures could we adopt to accomplish these objectives?

I’m going to suggest a few we can all fairly easily adopt that could make an immediate difference to get the ideas flowing.

The starter list:

First, we could adopt a 400m spatial exclusion or “bubble” zone that would allow whales greater protection from both physical and acoustic disturbance that impacts their ability to acquire prey. This is double the minimum being considered but from some studies I read and the UBC workshop there was moderate support for a larger exclusion zone out to 400m. 360 degree protection, 365 days a year!

A mobile safe zone for whales.

Perhaps the Rec community needs to take the high road on a voluntary basis to help the whales!

Second, to reduce acoustic disturbance when whales are within the 400 m bubble, we should turn off sounders to help whales more successfully sound their prey and feed.

Third, we should work cooperatively on the water to keep a watch out, and when whales are spotted get on a common radio channel (06 perhaps) to warn other vessel operators so they can pick up lines and leave the area

Four, we should voluntarily leave areas where whales are present. When leaving operators should leave slowly to avoid noise disturbance

Five, vessel operators should never run out ahead of advancing whales to stop and wait for them to swim to their boats. Leap frogging ahead can disturb prey and reduce success in acquiring prey.
 
For those of us who couldn't get to the Sidney meeting, could we get a run down of what happened? Thanks
I think I gather from calmseas postings that at the Sidney meeting last night there was some discussion/proposal made by somebody to somebody regarding the initial and insulting proposal from DFO regarding area 18. I sure would like some clarification on who said what to who? If it wasn't for our crappy ferry schedules I would have been there.
 
Sorry to say but with 76 animals left in this pod, any interest group can say what they want, that fact remains.

We can all preach about this, that and the other and point fingers at this and that group and say "nothing to prove this and nothing to prove that etc etc.". The reality is, the time to do something is NOW.

We know is that Chinook sizes are decreasing, boats grow bigger to go further to get them, and offshore and "new" fisheries are being exploited. Production increase isn't the long term answer either... what mother nature allows...she provides. Salmon runs over this coast are far lower from the days of yore...and whales are now contending with all kinds of new challenges and factors.

Talk to any learned or experienced individual over 50 to 90 who has fished this coast recreationally or commercially and they'll tell you of the drastic changes this coast and salmon stocks have endured.

I'm prepared to adapt and change to any initiatives scientifically proven or not.

Do something to "play the game" , or sit by and watch at your own peril.

If the SRKW population drops much below 76, with each animal that dies, be prepared for far reaching and imminent and actions of any type without any scientific proof. The general public at large are far more numerous and larger than any of us as an interest group. They will prevail. Food is a factor in any species reproduction. How large of factor I don't know.....but with any population...if there is no food...no one sticks around. Recent deaths and necropsies of retrieved killer whale calves have shown that they were undernourished. That's a contributing factor.

Some Steelhead stocks in the Interior are on the verge of extinction. Watch what happens next on the Fraser...at any moment...I don't think being Native or belonging to whatever interest group is going to matter.

I agree with many of the opinions on this thread...but I'm of the perspective that sacrifice comes in the interest of longer term sustainability. I'm sure that increased food production is on the table....and it's just a matter of time before that is done.
 
My problem is what DFO is proposing is death by a 1000 cuts they will do one area at a time to reduce the impact to the recreational fishing community and more importantly the out cry.

In the end tho every area will feel pain, unless of course the stocks actually recover.

Also DFO has not addressed the issue of abundance at all on in river escarpments remain the same and areas are still going to retain the same amount of salmon on the end.

So that means we’re going to be in this long term trend of minimal management actions with no material recovery in the actually abundance of chinook.

Increasing abundance is the only solution that will actually help, other wise as many have pointed out this spiral down will continue.

Overall chinook abundance has to be addressed.

Stay tonned and watch for when the PST is renegotiated.

PST determines fishing pressure. Also stay tooned for DFO 2019 budget, it will tell the story of any addition funding will be placed into the Salmon enhancement program.
 
The cops are looking for a murderer but can't be bothered to work hard. Someone needs to go to jail, the public demands it. Would you volunteer to go jail because the cops asked you to?

See where I am going with this?
 
I admittedly am not fully educated on the details here although I have been following along this thread and am trying to make arrangements to attend the meeting tomorrow night but...
It seems to me we are getting the short end of the stick again.
If Sports Fishers are removed from the water who is going to care about the fish, do the fund raising and patrol the waters?
DFO? FN? Whale Watchers? I don't think so.

It is sad that our Government does not see the need to do a better job of protect and restore habitat, regulating River Net Fishing, Fund and revive our Hatcheries, deal with lack of herring issues, deal with seal and sea lion population...

There are so many issues. I guess we are the easiest target and lowest on the food chain.
 
Lower Fraser First Nation chinook retained
2017 13,346
2016 6,157
2015 20,448
2004 (1984 cycle) 34,535

No matter how many Chinook is been saved out here. Unless near terminal water fishery is to be closed also it won’t matter.

Also another major factor is the amount of Chinook consumed by three other marine mammal groups, Harbor seals, Steller sea lion and CA sea lion.

Just seals alone consumed over 600 metric tons of Chinook in 2015 (article published in Canadian Jornal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences). That’s a good many folds more than what commercial and recreational fishery combined have retained.
 
I find it rather surprising the Whale Watching groups, businesses etc that basically harass the Orcas are just being told...... Continue on business as usual. Oh we're moving you back another 100 m. What a complete joke. These groups pound the Whales, day after day, week after week, month after month. From Vancouver to Sooke beyond and every where in between. Through communication, GPS , sightings , etc the Whales are located followed, then expected locations are next, yes harassed, call it what you want ........ You think they are not having an affect on feeding habits of the Orcas, think again. How short sighted of the decision makers.

Seals are COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL period. It's incredible their increase in population over the last few decades. They are KILLING TONS OF SALMON ...... Yet our spineless emotionally fed decision makers continue to turn a blind eye on the true problems. The MUST BE CULLS.

Closure to a number of the large commercial takes must be targeted and included in so called management plan. Their numbers are staggering. Do they not think the Chinook caught in seines in Johnston Straight are not Fraser River mouth feed for the Whale. Wow, they need to look at the entire picture here.

Emotional knee jerk Management doesn't work!

Accountability by FN and their true kill rates and numbers would be helpful but unlikely, sustainability should be in their mind rather then the continuation of raping the river from side to side. Stoping the Sale of fish through this group would help, but there's always going to be black market buyers. Goverenment needs to grow a spine.

Once again Government, DFO managing by knee jerk reactions, not addressing the real true issue will be the fall of all things wild. Congrats to those in the past that have turned away, continue to turn away from the real issues of blaytoned mismanagement. And not addressing the real issues.
 
What restrictions are being put on the whale watching groups?
Do they have proposed black out areas that they have to leave the whales alone? Maybe some days of the week, times of day and areas should be restricted.
Is there any regulation to how many whale watching businesses can operate in one area?

There seems to be more whale watching boats on the water than ever.
They leap frog and chase the whales.
Last year a huge whale boat (had to be 35ft +) followed the pod right into Beecher Bay and parked between the mainland and Frazer Island. Effectively cornering the whale with no way out but right beside or under them. I was told is it was a US Boat.

When the whales come through my fishing zone I do my best to avoid. I certainly don't follow them or try to leap frog them.

I watched the link noted above and it looks like this is not just proposed but being forced on us.
Another "Experimental Program" that is not going away.

Glad to see the Whale Watching Community and the Slipper Skippers are being well taken care of while we are getting the shaft again.
 
When you have an estimated 43k seals and tens of thousands of Sea Lions in the Gulf of Georgia it somehow seems reasonable to assume that there must be a direct connection between them and the starving Whales?
 
All I can say that if you see whale watching doing bad behavior film them and put it on you tube. At the very lest knowing people are watching will help
 
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