Early Halibut Opening

[searun]

I appreciate your concern and sense that political winds often shift management decisions - however, I think the 85/15 is pretty firm and was even hotly tested in the courts by the commercial guys. Very improbable there would be any changes in light of the court decision. Even more improbable that anyone from recreational sector is about to press for any changes either. Everyone is licking their respective wounds these days, and its about time we all started working together to simply plan sustainable fisheries.

Last year at the IPHC both the commercial and recreational Canadian delegation worked to support Canada's request to provide the recreational fishery with the ability to enter into a longer term agreement with the IPHC to give Canada the ability to vary our small halibut daily possession limit from a max of 2 to 3 per day. The Rec team felt this was an important vehicle/tool for us to adjust our catch to use up TAC if we found ourselves in a situation where we were trending below fully using our TAC. Without the commercial support that would never have been possible - and believe me, there were honest and hard discussions about its time to bury the hatchet and move on from bad feelings about the 85/15 thing.

 

[wildmanyeah]

move on from bad feelings about the 85/15 thing.

I guess we should also move on than from shaming people that buy tac as well.

More power too then if they want to keep a big one and pay for it.

 

[searun]

I guess we should also move on than from shaming people that buy tac as well.

More power too then if they want to keep a big one and pay for it.

Ha ha, that is a fools game IMO. Shooting ourselves in the foot. Not many would agree with me, but if I had buckets of cash, I would simply buy it outright and own it.

 

[Dale66]

I guess we should also move on than from shaming people that buy tac as well.

More power too then if they want to keep a big one and pay for it.

if we arent going to get any than 15 percent, then that's the way to go, aint shooting in foot if you arent running/walking anyway will nver again see a calmer season or better salmon fishing id hope those making decisions will realize that and isize aint reduced, but just one fish under 90 a day. will help slow poundage in charlottes

 

[Capt_Ed]

85/15 won't last unless there are provisions to protect it.
I only speak from past experience, and we all know once adjusted we seldom get it back.

So originally it was 88/12 and then after alot of ( insert your own word here) it went to 85/15 . Why would you think it would go back.

 

[scott craven]

So originally it was 88/12 and then after alot of ( insert your own word here) it went to 85/15 . Why would you think it would go back

Grateful for the extra 3% however I think the rec sector deserves a bigger piece of the pie.
My point is that the ratio is a moving target depending on what sort of pressure the
next fisheries minister bows to.

 

[wolf]

So originally it was 88/12 and then after alot of ( insert your own word here) it went to 85/15 . Why would you think it would go back.

WAs it not at 80/20 for 1 year? when we had the town hall meetings and I attended one up in nanaimo where there was ALOT of people? sorry cant remember if thats right or not as they have changed and fiddled with this soooooo much over 20 years

 

[Aces]

WAs it not at 80/20 for 1 year? when we had the town hall meetings and I attended one up in nanaimo where there was ALOT of people? sorry cant remember if thats right or not as they have changed and fiddled with this soooooo much over 20 years

I seem to recall that we tried to get our share up to 20% before that court case but here we are. Seems to be yet another diminishing resource that we are dividing up

 

[trophywife]

I seem to recall that we tried to get our share up to 20% before that court case but here we are. Seems to be yet another diminishing resource that we are dividing up

aims for the stars and hits the moon.

 

[BearCove]

It was 88/12, we all stood together and rallied, made some noise as a group. It was right around a provincial election, with a strike of a pen we got 3% more.

This proves that the commercial guy doesn’t actually own the quota and the government can make changes if they feel they should.

So maybe making some noise again and rallying the troops could make a difference

Just saying

 

[wildmanyeah]

It was 88/12, we all stood together and rallied, made some noise as a group. It was right around a provincial election, with a strike of a pen we got 3% more.

This proves that the commercial guy doesn’t actually own the quota and the government can make changes if they feel they should.

So maybe making some noise again and rallying the troops could make a difference

Just saying

Like searun says its not gonna happen, the 85/15 is here to stay there is not a lot of polotical will for it change and if there is going to be a transfer of TAC my it will probably go to first nations not rec fishermen.

so that leaves the rec fishery with really two options to fund buying permit tac though say a halibut stamp or individuals buying tac though a transfer program like the one that exists and/or lodges/guides buying tac for their guests. That would create an inequality in the rec fishery. Pay to play altho you can argue we have that in many respects all ready, the more money you have the more options you have to go fish somewhere.

Were probably pretty lucky that the rec fishery has not expanded that saltwater licenses have remained stagnant for years because say if the rec fishing pressure double IMO we be left like a very short season or something that looks far worse then where we are at today.

its a pipe dream to expect any ground swell of support, that suddenly hundreds of rec fishermen will get involved into what amounts to a hobby that they participate in a few times a year.

not talking about people on a fishing fourm because we're all nuts but the 300 boats that show up out of no where a few times a year.

 

[wavetamer]

When more TAC is purchased where does it come from the Commercial Quota?? , or does it just magically appear ??

 

[BearCove]

Like searun says its not gonna happen, the 85/15 is here to stay there is not a lot of polotical will for it change and if there is going to be a transfer of TAC my it will probably go to first nations not rec fishermen.

so that leaves the rec fishery with really two options to fund buying permit tac though say a halibut stamp or individuals buying tac though a transfer program like the one that exists and/or lodges/guides buying tac for their guests. That would create an inequality in the rec fishery. Pay to play altho you can argue we have that in many respects all ready, the more money you have the more options you have to go fish somewhere.

Were probably pretty lucky that the rec fishery has not expanded that saltwater licenses have remained stagnant for years because say if the rec fishing pressure double IMO we be left like a very short season or something that looks far worse then where we are at today.

its a pipe dream to expect any ground swell of support, that suddenly hundreds of rec fishermen will get involved into what amounts to a hobby that they participate in a few times a year.

not talking about people on a fishing fourm because we're all nuts but the 300 boats that show up out of no where a few times a year.

I believe if the recreational sector did band together at the correct time (election time) a difference could be made, it has happened in the past, why could it not happen again?

Commercial hali quota is not safe, they just have a stronger united voice is all.

That being said, trying to get all recreational anglers across Canada to unite would be the challenge.

Halibut is a common property resource of all Canadians and should not be owned by anyone.

Things can be changed, just needs people and persistence

 

[SpringVelocity]

I think the whale stuff is more of priority than more TAC at moment. I think we should have more TAC but we're still allowed to fish for them. We're getting screwd all over the place on the salmon front.

Port Renfrew and Sooke are at edges of not having salmon fisheries anymore the way things keep going. Writing is on the wall.

Those no whale zones will be expanded northward on inside and outside of island. We need to take the government to court on this. Should have been done last year in my opinion.

 

[Eden Island]

It was 88/12, we all stood together and rallied, made some noise as a group. It was right around a provincial election, with a strike of a pen we got 3% more.

This proves that the commercial guy doesn’t actually own the quota and the government can make changes if they feel they should.

So maybe making some noise again and rallying the troops could make a difference

Just saying

Can anyone tell us what the split is in Alaska and Washington? I've seen it somewhere but can't find it at the moment -- but I seem to recall its quite a bit higher. And that should be the basis of an equity argument for BC fishers, guides and lodges.

On the question of developing a lobby, I don't think we need a cross-Canada lobby -- this is mostly a BC issue. In fact, I'd be fine if we could get a more generous treatment of BC resident fishers.

 

[ziggy]

I appreciate your concern and sense that political winds often shift management decisions - however, I think the 85/15 is pretty firm and was even hotly tested in the courts by the commercial guys. Very improbable there would be any changes in light of the court decision. Even more improbable that anyone from recreational sector is about to press for any changes either. Everyone is licking their respective wounds these days, and its about time we all started working together to simply plan sustainable fisheries.

Last year at the IPHC both the commercial and recreational Canadian delegation worked to support Canada's request to provide the recreational fishery with the ability to enter into a longer term agreement with the IPHC to give Canada the ability to vary our small halibut daily possession limit from a max of 2 to 3 per day. The Rec team felt this was an important vehicle/tool for us to adjust our catch to use up TAC if we found ourselves in a situation where we were trending below fully using our TAC. Without the commercial support that would never have been possible - and believe me, there were honest and hard discussions about its time to bury the hatchet and move on from bad feelings about the 85/15 thing.

How often does the “Rec Team” receive data on landed catch in order to recommend changes in daily quota etc.? Is there a set time For example June and August or is it an ongoing process. Just curious after what happened last year with the early closure after having an in season increase in daily possession limit. DFO moves in mysterious ways.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The final recreational halibut catch numbers are still being finalized. At this juncture the season closed early because the preliminary catch data available to the Halibut Working Group showed there was potentially a small overage. Recreational underages are not banked and carried over from one calendar year to the next. However, overages from the previous season (2023) are deducted from the available TAC for the new season (2024). No final decision has been reached as of this time if there is an overage that would be deducted.

The only TAC that can be carried over from one season to the next is the Commercial Halibut quota holders can carry over up to 10% of their prior season's un-used quota.

The reason the limit was increased to allow retaining 2 small halibut in one day mid season was at that time, available catch data was indicating we were tracking below the expected catch, and if that trend continued we would not use our available TAC. Unfortunately after the decision was made to increase the daily limit, we encountered really good weather which allows more effort to be directed at halibut and also the salmon fishing was so good that people caught their salmon earlier in the day and ventured out halibut fishing. Isn't something that usually takes place. Predicting fishing effort and angler behaviour is very complicated and nearly impossible to get right.

From my read of the IPHC data its looking like the dominant age class that will be catchable in our upcoming fishery will come from the 2012 cohort of spawners. The prior dominant age classes which are now the large fish we encountered are starting to age-out of the fishery, so we will see fewer large fish. More likely the dominant size class will be fish near the 80-90 cm mark in size.

For the IPHC, the conern going forward is there hasn't been a strong signal in the available set line survey data showing another large number of fish coming up from an earlier than the dominant 2012 cohort. There is some emerging evidence that suggests there was a successful spawn in the 2014 spawning cycle - but bit too early to fully assess with confidence. While possibly being some good news, its hard to predict how the IPHC will take that into account when assessing future fishery risk, available harvest biomass, and ultimately how much TAC will be fished by the contracting parties (US and Canada).

We will know the answer by the end of next week.

I believe searun already answered your question

 

[Aces]

Can anyone tell us what the split is in Alaska and Washington? I've seen it somewhere but can't find it at the moment -- but I seem to recall its quite a bit higher. And that should be the basis of an equity argument for BC fishers, guides and lodges.

On the question of developing a lobby, I don't think we need a cross-Canada lobby -- this is mostly a BC issue. In fact, I'd be fine if we could get a more generous treatment of BC resident fishers.

Those guys in Washington have it way worse than us. Open less than 20 days on specific days so they go in May regardless of the weather

 

[ziggy]

I believe searun already answered your question

Whose question? If you mean mine, I don’t see anywhere where the process of data gathering was discussed regarding when/ how often?

 

[searun]

I believe if the recreational sector did band together at the correct time (election time) a difference could be made, it has happened in the past, why could it not happen again?

Commercial hali quota is not safe, they just have a stronger united voice is all.

That being said, trying to get all recreational anglers across Canada to unite would be the challenge.

Halibut is a common property resource of all Canadians and should not be owned by anyone.

Things can be changed, just needs people and persistence

While I agree with all these thoughts in my heart, my prior experience and logic say its never going to happen. There isn't any ground swell of political or other support. B.C. stands for Bring Cash. Raise the cash and buy the TAC permanently is more realistic than some sort of political rally.

The cold hard reality in my experience is we can shut down a major fishery near BC's largest population of recreational fishers (Vancouver) and where were the hordes of protesters and political back lash that caused the Ottawa folks to flinch? Like everyone on here, I would love nothing more than to see things change but question if those thoughts are realistic. That being the case, I'd rather focus on things that have some chance of improving our fishery. This one is a tire spinner.