DFO Airforce

[browningmirage]

The creel counter you are referring to was Hugo and I’m sorry to say he past away two summers ago. Hugo all way let me know about his fly overs and what they saw. He was a really nice guy and I always provided him the information requested.

I've seen that plane numerus time a year in JDF. It usually flies down the US board line and comes back along the Canadian shore line to get a good counts of boats.

I thing the fly overs are one of the only ways DFO can estimate the fish catch and check on illegal fishing.

When every you see the DFO plane out you will see the creel counters checking fish catch ratios at the marinas VS the plane data count on boats fishing. If the plane counts 100 boats fishing and the creel counters get info from 25 boats and each boat has an average of two fish (lb by size of fish checked) caught . DFO assumes all 100 boats caught 2 fish (2 X 15lb =30lb) and a total of 200 fish (6,000lb) were caught that day. That is how they calculate the total fish take.

Going back a few years, I was in a meeting with a few guides, SFAB and DFO and the DFO fly over showed over 300 boats halibut fishing. Wolf, Foghorn and I tried to explain to the DFO rep that there are never even 200 boats halibut fishing in 19/20 in one day. Not even when the Island Outfitter derby was on and numbers by the numbers of derby tickets sold. The worst thing is if the creel counters check 25 boats and the average catch in each boat is two halibut (2 X 25lb = 50lb), DFO assumes the take is 600 halibut (30,000lb) caught that day. I don't think we got it into the DFO scientist head there are not 300 boats fishing and not every boat catches fish.

We all know, some days boats get skunked and some of those 300 boats the DFO rep said they reports on where pleasure craft and not fishing. Including those pleasure craft boats increase the fish taken numbers and effects our fish total lb numbers.

I wonder, are there ways to improve?

 

[ziggy]

Nice to see the new plane has been made official
I mentioned this on the forum back in November, funded from DND/Navy's budget
The crews flys almost daily 52wks a yr. outfitted
with the most high tech electronic surveillance equipment available.
all to go after "colonial" grandpa and his grandkids, and look the other way for others..
True story

I doubt any but the Aurora’s which are military long range patrol aircraft are funded by DND. It would be great though if there was that kind of interdepartmental cooperation.

 

[searun]

I wonder, are there ways to improve?

Simple solution for the guides is to complete a guide log book. The log book data from each day a guide turns in a page is deducted from the over-flight count and average CPUE that is applied to all the vessels counted fishing. They then insert the actual catch recorded in the log books to replace the average CPUE = increased accuracy of the estimate. The other way to improve the over-flight data is for a few knowledgeable volunteers to ride along with the creel over-flights to validate proper identification of vessels fishing halibut vs simply being recreational vessels or fishing other species such as salmon. BTW, the over-flights don't count vessels running in transit. So a vessel clearly running from point to point would not be counted.

also, the creel overflight planes are usually float planes - the pics shared earlier on this thread are surveillance and enforcement planes which are not engaged in creel activity.

 

[gunnerlove]

I doubt any but the Aurora’s which are military long range patrol aircraft are funded by DND. It would be great though if there was that king of interdepartmental cooperation.

I don't doubt that money is going from dept to dept in a bizarre Enron shell game.

 

[ziggy]

I don't doubt that money is going from dept to dept in a bizarre Enron shell game.

WE airforce.

 

[browningmirage]

Simple solution for the guides is to complete a guide log book. The log book data from each day a guide turns in a page is deducted from the over-flight count and average CPUE that is applied to all the vessels counted fishing. They then insert the actual catch recorded in the log books to replace the average CPUE = increased accuracy of the estimate. The other way to improve the over-flight data is for a few knowledgeable volunteers to ride along with the creel over-flights to validate proper identification of vessels fishing halibut vs simply being recreational vessels or fishing other species such as salmon. BTW, the over-flights don't count vessels running in transit. So a vessel clearly running from point to point would not be counted.

also, the creel overflight planes are usually float planes - the pics shared earlier on this thread are surveillance and enforcement planes which are not engaged in creel activity.

I know the logbook program has been out for a while, but do people actually reliably participate in it?

Good idea re:ridealong!

 

[searun]

Its voluntary, not participating is ultimately hurting our ability to use data to help us. DFO could enforce use of Section 61, but so far has been reluctant to do so. If participation rates remain variable from one area to the next, it won't be long before DFO moves down the guide licensing road. Actively being discussed now, so only a matter of how long it will take for the wheels of government to turn. We are now at a point where the ENGO groups and FN's are saying no data, no fishery so doing log books is a no brainer IMO.

 

[searun]

Ya, open offer for SFAB to ride along....but Covid put a temporary stop to that.

 

[Kildonan]

The creel counter you are referring to was Hugo and I’m sorry to say he past away two summers ago. Hugo all way let me know about his fly overs and what they saw. He was a really nice guy and I always provided him the information requested.

I've seen that plane numerus time a year in JDF. It usually flies down the US board line and comes back along the Canadian shore line to get a good counts of boats.

Yes, it was in fact Hugo and I was aware he passed away. It's sad, he was a very nice fellow, I really liked him. I had lots of time for him and always let him take samples and provided all info he was looking for. I miss him, he was a good source of info for current fishing info, too.

 

[coastalmarinesafety]

The compact green turbo prop speeder is the DFO patrol plane. And the bigger red DASH 8 is the joint Transport Canada/Environment Canada pollution surveillance plane (google "NASP"). Different mandates, however both are cross tasked with documenting boats too close to Orcas whilst on their patrols.

 

[Gong Show]

PAL aerospace.
I have said this on the last dfo war plane thread.
Now based on Campbell River.
They have the DFO contract.
They have a King Air and, allegedly, a dash 8.
Not enough information to match colors and ID numbers.
Link here

 

[trophywife]

i have a large "**** on dfo" sticker on my roof. lol

 

[Pippen]

We got buzzed while tuna fishing a few years ago WAY offshore.

 

[carpeweekend]

So, $128 million for DFO surveillance but no money available for Salmon enhancement? I wonder what the impact would be if they spent the $128 million on hatcheries and stream recovery instead? More Federal Government and DFO logic.

 

[sly_karma]

So, $128 million for DFO surveillance but no money available for Salmon enhancement? I wonder what the impact would be if they spent the $128 million on hatcheries and stream recovery instead?

I'd hazard a guess that there'd be even more online bitching about lack of enforcement.

 

[nomad14]

There is growing concern with the amount of industrial sized ships illegally fishing inside the 200 nm limit Canadian exclusion zone but 12 nm offshore (outside Canadian borders). China especially is continually encroaching on other countries fishing grounds. I agree that habitat and hatcheries should be better funded but increasing the countries ability for offshore surveillance will prevent large scale industrial poaching of Canadian fish hopefully. What good is a hatchery if the fish are going to be taken while offshore illegally by other countries.

 

[Pineapple Express]

There is growing concern with the amount of industrial sized ships illegally fishing inside the 200 nm limit Canadian exclusion zone but 12 nm offshore (outside Canadian borders). China especially is continually encroaching on other countries fishing grounds. I agree that habitat and hatcheries should be better funded but increasing the countries ability for offshore surveillance will prevent large scale industrial poaching of Canadian fish hopefully. What good is a hatchery if the fish are going to be taken while offshore illegally by other countries.

I heard a bit about this on the radio this morning. The ships that encroach in to national waters are turning off their AIS systems so they can't be tracked electronically....so visual surveillance is required.

 

[walleyes]

There’s one way to deal with them. More than one country has resorted to this when dealing with illegal fishing.

 

[Reeltime]

Seen that plane flying low in the harbour doing circles and flying super low in Howe Sound, Hole in the wall going up the Sound prob 200' off the water..

 

[ziggy]

There is growing concern with the amount of industrial sized ships illegally fishing inside the 200 nm limit Canadian exclusion zone but 12 nm offshore (outside Canadian borders). China especially is continually encroaching on other countries fishing grounds. I agree that habitat and hatcheries should be better funded but increasing the countries ability for offshore surveillance will prevent large scale industrial poaching of Canadian fish hopefully. What good is a hatchery if the fish are going to be taken while offshore illegally by other countries.

This is where interdepartmental co operation enters the fray. In the 70’s it was Russian factory ships that were fishing inside our territorial limits. Air Force Long Range Patrol aircraft conducted surveillance while Navy Destroyers with Fisheries Officers conducted boardings. Just saw and added this.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dark-vessel-satellite-tracking-1.5927312