Climate: LNG in B.C. vs Alberta tarsands

Status
Not open for further replies.

I'm not a sea level scientist that's why I read, understand and listen to what these folks say.
I don't go to "Tony's house of pizza and climate change" website for science.
So how do I match up?
I leverage their knowledge and bring it forward.... what do you do....?
Oh wait I already know the answer.....

You think this scientist knows the answer?
Why don't we look at the group he is a part of and what they say.
http://www.bioone.org/doi/full/10.2112/JCOASTRES-D-12-00175.1

Map that shows the trends....
http://www.psmsl.org/
 
Now you are just making stuff up again.
Most of it has,been done, really you expect us to believe that.

Get with it... it's 2014 .. do your homework.
I'll edit this post with the regional reports on the impacts of climate change that you claim don't exist...

USA http://www.globalchange.gov/explore

Canada http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/environment/...cts-adaptation/reports/assessments/2014/16309

Those are two... Pick a country any country in the world and I suspect there is something on the web for it.

And IPCC has a website that lists most of the major regions of the world.
http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg2/
Look for "part B" for the report on that region.

So you see that it's typical of your response that you do not know what you are talking about or you're stuck somewhere in the past and not going forward with what the science says.

Get off the denial websites and go visit one that's based on science.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why would an Apollo Astronaut come out of retirement to jump off a cliff in Peru?

For Apollo 7 astronaut Walt Cunningham, calling attention to the “sorry way” that climate science and policy have been distorted is an important reason.

Walt came to the UN climate conference in Peru (COP 20) as part of the official CFACT delegation to issue a call for political leaders and the media to return to “scientific realism” on global warming. Cunningham was part of the three member Apollo VII crew which in 1968 became NASA’s first manned space mission after the loss of the three astronauts of Apollo I to a tragic fire on the ground.

BannerinSky82 year old Cunningham became so “fed up,” with the endless character assassination, lies and distortions that permeate the global warming discussion that in 2012 he joined with several of his colleagues to find out what America’s pioneers in space think about the issue. They found themselves to be united nearly unanimously in opposition the global warming alarmist campaign with the main division coming between those who were willing to say so publicly and those who expressed their opposition behind the scenes.

This led to a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, Jr. co-signed by a raft of NASA veterans stating, “We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.”

In Peru, Walt braved high altitudes and powerful winds to make his paragliding jump Paraglide bannerover the Andes mountains and CFACT’s team unfurled a banner in the sky which reads, “No new treaty!”

“I can’t think of a more beautiful or dramatic backdrop before which to make this important point,” Cunningham said. “As a member of CFACT’s delegation to the UN climate talks I can tell you first hand that there is endless destructive nonsense being contemplated. A new global warming treaty would be a terrible mistake.”

“In some ways getting this paraglider off the ground was tougher than Apollo VII,” Cunningham joked. “The forces on that rig made zero gravity look pretty good!”

Colonel Cunningham will speak at numerous events at COP 20 including a UN press conference scheduled for Thursday at 2 PM. He will appear on the UN climate studio Thursday at 3:30 PM.
 
Even more stunning that you are tying your horse to this one.




http://news.yahoo.com/climate-funds-coal-highlight-lack-un-rules-055042351.html


Making stuff up again i see. Since when did I link or quote this website..... never.
Is that the best you can do.... "Making stuff up"
Typical....

You are telling us that you are not trying to cut back on global warming?
You have told us that the IPPC is right.
So here is the article telling us that the money supposedly for global warming is being spent on coal.
This is your group.

Your losing it ....... Reread what I said.
I can speak for myself and I don't need you to put words in my mouth.
Your arguments have no merit just like your theories.
 
Enbridge plans Northern Gateway shakeup, giving greater control to aboriginal partners.

Discussions are under way about moving the project’s control from Enbridge to a more independent entity, such as a limited partnership, governed by a board representing Enbridge, oil company shippers and aboriginal equity partners, he said.

http://business.financialpost.com/2...ginal-partners/?__lsa=6f18-0795#__federated=1
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why would an Apollo Astronaut come out of retirement to jump off a cliff in Peru?

For Apollo 7 astronaut Walt Cunningham, calling attention to the “sorry way” that climate science and policy have been distorted is an important reason.


Colonel Cunningham will speak at numerous events at COP 20 including a UN press conference scheduled for Thursday at 2 PM. He will appear on the UN climate studio Thursday at 3:30 PM.

You have got to be kidding.... now were on to this website
www.c f a c t.org
Is this "climate fish and chips togo . org"

Wish I was there for a belly laugh from the comedy that your side put's out
 
So what are you fighting for? Now we wonder as we thought it was global warming and the IPPC which includes the United Nations.


Your losing it ....... Reread what I said.
I can speak for myself and I don't need you to put words in my mouth.
Your arguments have no merit just like your theories.
 
Again, you cannot accept the article, same old stuff.
He showed up and made his thoughts known.



Walt came to the UN climate conference in Peru (COP 20) as part of the official CFACT delegation to issue a call for political leaders and the media to return to “scientific realism” on global warming. Cunningham was part of the three member Apollo VII crew which in 1968 became NASA’s first manned space mission after the loss of the three astronauts of Apollo I to a tragic fire on the ground.

BannerinSky82 year old Cunningham became so “fed up,” with the endless character assassination, lies and distortions that permeate the global warming discussion that in 2012 he joined with several of his colleagues to find out what America’s pioneers in space think about the issue. They found themselves to be united nearly unanimously in opposition the global warming alarmist campaign with the main division coming between those who were willing to say so publicly and those who expressed their opposition behind the scenes.

You have got to be kidding.... now were on to this website
www.c f a c t.org
Is this "climate fish and chips togo . org"

Wish I was there for a belly laugh from the comedy that your side put's out
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Again, you cannot accept the article, same old stuff.
He showed up and made his thoughts known.

.

Why yes he has, just like the "Thought Bubble" that your team wakes up in the morning with.
Problem is that's not how you do science.
climatechangebubble-700x420.jpg
 
So what are you fighting for? Now we wonder as we thought it was global warming and the IPPC which includes the United Nations.

Lost the argument again and need a new one to try?
Typical.....
I don't know what your going on about but you said
Now you are just making stuff up again.
Most of it has,been done, really you expect us to believe that.
I gave you the links to prove that it has been done.
Just another example of the nonsense that you are trying to prove.
It's a loss sum position based on a faulty premise.
 
LOL, in YOUR MIND .
So since you did not reply to the simple question. We will assume you agree with the IPPC and the United Nations. Unless you advise us otherwise.
So i see the ocean has not risen and looks like it will not in your life time as a minimum.
The earth has not warmed up in 18 years and two months according to the latest and best information available to man.
The amount ofcarbon has risen, yet no warming in relationship.
The IPPC and the United Nation screwed up and did not say how the countries could spend dollars that were supposed to be for carbon reduction.
Your leader big AL, is still exaggerating and his and you sides projections are mostly full of it.
Yes you have to live with the projections made way back then by the IPPC because of their track record.
Yes you have to live with all the projections made that did not come true or even close because your side said it was true or going to happen.
Your side said there is to be no discussion, because YOU are right and because of that, we are not allowed to question you.
Time is now showing that you were wrong a lot on your projections and when shown this your group bullies or puts down people.
So, go hard and we will see.
You should be more concerned about the amount of oil on trains and not in pipelines.
This is a growing thing and when one goes into the Thompson or Fraser it will a huge concern.






Lost the argument again and need a new one to try?
Typical.....
I don't know what your going on about but you said

I gave you the links to prove that it has been done.
Just another example of the nonsense that you are trying to prove.
It's a loss sum position based on a faulty premise.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
LOL, in YOUR MIND .
So since you did not reply to the simple question. We will assume you agree with the IPPC and the United Nations. Unless you advise us otherwise.
What simple question? You post nonsense and skip from one subject to another and it's a challenge to keep up with your logic. So state your question clearly and I will respond. I agree with IPCC that global warming is real and it's man made. It's serious and we are seeing it's effect right now. If we continue with business as usual we will see between 4 and 6 C by the end of the century. Is that clear enough for you?

So i see the ocean has not risen and looks like it will not in your life time as a minimum.
Nonsense.... I have posted links from reputable websites that make your statement false. What have you got? Something from the denial blogosphere? You posted links to science that doesn't even support your claim. Typical from your side that you think you know what the science says but your either wrong or being dishonest.


The earth has not warmed up in 18 years and two months according to the latest and best information available to man.
The amount ofcarbon has risen, yet no warming in relationship.
Again more nonsense. You get your info from Op-ed in a rag and think that's science. Post a peer reviewed science paper from one of the top ten journals with your claim. Can't do it can you. Why is that? Because it's nonsense.


The IPPC and the United Nation screwed up and did not say how the countries could spend dollars that were supposed to be for carbon reduction.
So are you going to prove it was IPCC and not some bankster that committed the fraud? Answer me this....If I were to give you money for food and you spent it on beer it is somehow my fault and not yours. Do we trust me or do we trust you?


Your leader big AL, is still exaggerating and his and you sides projections are mostly full of it.
Yes you have to live with the projections made way back then by the IPPC because of their track record.
Yes you have to live with all the projections made that did not come true or even close because your side said it was true or going to happen.
Get with it and read the ipcc report so you know what your talking about. Projections have been refined but things have not changed much. Yup play the Al card as quoting him has nothing to do with current science and frankly it makes you look bad. Keep on doing it. It makes my point ever time you do.


Your side said there is to be no discussion, because YOU are right and because of that, we are not allowed to question you.
The science is settled your side lost. The only discussion that needs to be done is what are we going to do about it. That is what needs to be talked about. Not the nonsense from some website called "tony's house of pizza and climate change"


Time is now showing that you were wrong a lot on your projections and when shown this your group bullies or puts down people.
Ah yes the bully card.... Yup I'm going to mock your team because frankly they deserve it. The nonsense they put out on the web is just too much and this problem is affecting me and my family now and in the future. I'm drawing my line in the sand.


So, go hard and we will see.
Yes we will and a very good indication will be the Arctic Sea Ice. No models no reports and no wishing it stop. It is what it is and we will see. So far it's not looking good.


You should be more concerned about the amount of oil on trains and not in pipelines.
This is a growing thing and when one goes into the Thompson or Fraser it will a huge concern.
So you support pipelines like KM and NG then? My positions is no more new pipelines and start ramping down the tarsands. Quit spending money on infrastructure that is for the expansion of the oil, gas and coal until we have a path to zero carbon. Is that clear enough for you?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So what does IPCC say about global sea level.
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg2/WGIIAR5-Chap30_FINAL.pdf

30.3.1.2. Sea Level
The rate of sea level rise (SLR) since the mid-19th century has been larger
than the mean rate during the previous two millennia (high confidence).
Over the period 1901–2010, global mean sea level (GMSL) rose by 0.19
(0.17 to 0.21) m (WGI AR5 Figure SPM.3; WGI AR5 Sections 3.7, 5.6,
13.2). It is very likely that the mean rate of global averaged SLR was

1.7 (1.5 to 1.9) mm yr between 1901 and 2010,
2.0 (1.7 to 2.3) mm yr between 1971 and 2010,
3.2 (2.8 to 3.6) mm yr between 1993 and 2010
(WGIAR5 SPM, Section 3.7).
These observations are consistent
with thermal expansion of the Ocean due to warming plus the addition
of water from loss of mass by melting glaciers and ice sheets. Current
rates of SLR vary geographically, and can be higher or lower than the
GMSL for several decades at time due to fluctuations in natural variability
and ocean circulation (Figure 30-5). For example, rates of SLR are up to
three times higher than the GMSL in the Western Pacific and Southeast
Asian region, and decreasing in many parts of the Eastern Pacific for
the period 1993–2012 as measured by satellite altimetry (Figure 30-5;
WGI AR5 Section 13.6.5).
SLR under increasing atmospheric GHG concentrations will continue for
hundreds of years, with the extent and rate of the increase in GMSL
being dependent on the emission scenario. Central to this analysis is
the millennial-scale commitment to further SLR that is likely to arise
from the loss of mass of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets (WGI
AR5 Section 13.5.4, Figure 13.13). SLR is very likely to increase during
the 21st century relative to the period 1971–2010 due to increased
ocean warming and the continued contribution of water from loss of
mass from glaciers and ice sheets. There is medium confidence that
median SLR by 2081–2100 relative to 1986–2005 will be (5 to 95%
range of process-based models): 0.44 m for RCP2.6, 0.53 m for RCP4.5,
0.55 m for RCP6.0, and 0.74 m for RCP8.5. Higher values of SLR are
possible but are not backed by sufficient evidence to enable reliable
estimates of the probability of specific outcomes. Many semi-empirical
model projections of GMSL rise are higher than process-based model
projections (up to about twice as large), but there is no consensus in
the scientific community about their reliability and there is thus low
confidence in their projections (WGI AR5 Sections 13.5.2, 13.5.3, Table
13.6, Figure 13.12).
It is considered very likely that increases in sea level will result in greater
levels of coastal flooding and more frequent extremes by 2050 (WGI
AR5 Section 13.7.2; IPCC, 2012). It is about as likely as not that the
frequency of the most intense storms will increase in some ocean basins,
although there is medium agreement that the global frequency of
tropical cyclones is likely to decrease or remain constant (WGI AR5
Sections 14.6, 14.8). Although understanding of associated risks is
relatively undeveloped, coastal and low-lying areas, particularly in
southern Asia, as well as the Pacific Ocean and North Atlantic regions,
face increased flood risk (Sections 5.3.3.2, 8.2.3.3, 9.3.4.3). Future
impacts of SLR include increasing penetration of storm surges into
coastal areas and changing patterns of shoreline erosion (Section 5.3),
as well as the inundation of coastal aquifers by saltwater (Sections
5.4.2.5, 29.3.2). Regionally, some natural ecosystems may reduce in
extent (e.g., mangroves), although examples of habitat expansion have
been reported (Brown et al., 2011). Overall, changes to sea level are
very likely to modify coastal ecosystems such as beaches,salt marshes,
coral reefs, and mangroves (Section 5.4.2; Box CC-CR), especially where
rates of sea level rise are highest (e.g., Southeast Asia and the Western
Pacific).

So what are the impacts?
I found this website that gives us the information from a US perspective.

Witness Panel 1


I'll look for impacts for Canada but since we have a climate change denial leader that info will be hard to find. I suspect if it gets in the way of his tarsands agenda the budget is gone and no one is left to do the work....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
And note that they still have NO Decisions to stop this.
So, why then care about Global Warming?
Where are all the people who supposedly care about global warming.
Why is this not in all the papers?
What defence is there for such stupidness by the IPPC and the U.N.
Guess global warming is not really a big concern, otherwise just plain common sense
should have ensured this could not happen.
Unless this is all about money.

KANCI KULON, Indonesia (AP) — About $1 billion in loans under a U.N. initiative for poor countries to tackle global warming is going toward the construction of power plants fired by coal, the biggest human source of carbon pollution.

Japan gave the money to help its companies build three such plants in Indonesia and listed it with the United Nations as climate finance, The Associated Press has found. Japan says these plants burn coal more efficiently and are therefore cleaner than old coal.

Japan, a top contributor of climate finance, denies any wrongdoing and has done nothing illegal — there are no rules against counting such projects as climate finance in the U.N. system.

"There are countries ... that cannot afford to have other methods than coal," Japanese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Takako Ito said. "For these countries, we'd like to provide the best method of reducing carbon dioxide."

However, U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres, who was unaware that the Japanese-funded coal plants in Indonesia were labeled as climate finance, said "there is no argument" for supporting such projects with climate money.

"Unabated coal has no room in the future energy system," she told AP. "Over time, what we should be seeing is a very, very clear trend of investment into clean renewable energy."

Even the newly launched Green Climate Fund, a key channel for climate finance in the future, still only has vague guidelines on how to spend the money. Board member Jan Cedergren said he didn't believe the fund would support fossil fuels but acknowledged no decision has so far been made.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
China has rejected the scrutiny of efforts to limit carbon emissions, a key tool that the US says is necessary as more than 190 countries work to come up with a new deal to fight climate change.

Chinese negotiators sought at a climate conference in Lima, Peru, to delete provisions in a draft text that would have paved the way for other countries and non-governmental organisations to submit questions about its carbon-reduction plans, according to environmental groups that are official observers to the talks. The pledges will be included in a global deal to be sealed next year and that starts in 2020.

US lead climate envoy Todd Stern told reporters that all national pledges should be subject to scrutiny by other countries, saying "the sunshine is intended to prod countries to be as ambitious as possible" in limiting carbon emissions.

The United States and China last month jointly announced efforts they plan to make under the new climate deal.

"The spirit of constructive cooperation of the US-China agreement seems to have come to a full stop," Liz Gallagher, senior adviser to the policy analyst group E3G, said on Saturday in an interview in Lima, where two weeks of UN climate talks began last Monday.

Chinese negotiator Su Wei did not immediately reply to an e-mail seeking comment.

"This is exactly the kind of risk that we face when hard lines are taken by parties," Tasneem Essop, a spokeswoman on climate policy for the environmental group WWF International, said. "It's early days … so we do hope that arties will soften their lines."

Essop said her remarks referred to all nations. She also criticised what she called a "slash-and-burn" exercise by the United States, European Union, Australia, Canada and New Zealand to remove any reference to a review of the commitments they had made to cut emissions before 2020.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as China turns down US plea for review of carbon pledge
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top