Sculpin
Well-Known Member
Last edited by a moderator:
Cambell Riiver Halibut meeting
- Thread starter Islandgirl
- Start date
Silver Streak
Member
Anyone get a head count at the Campbell River meeting - haven't heard any numbers here yet.
Victoria had 371 and Nanaimo 386.
Victoria had 371 and Nanaimo 386.
fishingbc
Active Member
240 in the seats bout another 100 or more standing....
Bassblaster
Active Member
I got the same headcount as fishingbc. Somewhere between 340-360. Sorry I didn't have a chance to visit with any of you.
searun
Well-Known Member
Attended the meeting, and from my perspective it was informative and both sides had opportunity to present their views on the issue. What was most distressing was a lack of interest by the local MP John Duncan. Thank God I live in Lunney's riding. At least he gets it, and supports a revision to the allocation. Duncan has his head firmly planted where the sun don't shine. I sure hope some Comox/Campbell River residents write letters to the editor of both North Island papers demanding Duncan resign if he can't wake up.
Folks, you may think that letters to your MP and the PM are effective. I can tell you that letters or news stories in the paper are 100% more effective. The way it works in Gov't is this. Each day there is a wire clipping service that searches all news media for political stories. The service posts this to their subscribers, and each morning an e-mail goes out to our esteemed politicians. Believe me, they read them. There is nothing that shakes a politician to the core than a bunch of bad media.
Time for a few well placed letters to the editor demanding Duncan resign if he can't support changes to the allocation.
Folks, you may think that letters to your MP and the PM are effective. I can tell you that letters or news stories in the paper are 100% more effective. The way it works in Gov't is this. Each day there is a wire clipping service that searches all news media for political stories. The service posts this to their subscribers, and each morning an e-mail goes out to our esteemed politicians. Believe me, they read them. There is nothing that shakes a politician to the core than a bunch of bad media.
Time for a few well placed letters to the editor demanding Duncan resign if he can't support changes to the allocation.
Derby
Crew Member
Agree 100%- time for him to either listen to the people-not what is his personal belief maybe.
Steelhead S2
Active Member
Well, I'm in a letter writing mood. Some of the numbers people have come up with are very interesting. For example the minor adjustment to industrial quota increasing the recreational quota by 20%. I would appreciate it if a well informed person could lay out all the important figures in one post so that the rest of us can draft letters with hard content rather that just hard feelings. I don't know a ton on this issue, but I think I've chosen sides now. But someone on here must have a lot of info and stats in their possession. Please share them.
Osama Bin Hopper
Active Member
Derby
Crew Member
Sushihunter
Active Member
way to go drunken duncan
OK, let's not forget that John Duncan is recovering from recent Open Heart Surgery.
Put yourself in his place. If you had recently had someone cutting your heart open, would you want to face a bunch of angry constituents where emotions could be running hot? Especially if you were opposed to their goals?
I'm not excusing his position, but he is not in fighting trim, and won't be for several months.
T
tofinofish
Guest
With all due respect that is understandable Jim, BUT
It still doesn't excuse his stance on the issue, and his recent letter of basically not supporting political decisions while NO other decisions are being made. Health aside, his head in the sand won't help fix this major issue, which is Political
Sushihunter
Active Member
tofinofish:
I agree.
I'm just saying that we should keep our comments on Duncan, (and others) at a professional level, and not get into name calling.
It does not look well on us to get into the gutter when attacking our political rivals.
I agree that Duncan should have been at that meeting, but there may be more to it than just avoiding the discussion.
I also agree that Duncans recent press release was a gutless exercise in spin.
I agree.
I'm just saying that we should keep our comments on Duncan, (and others) at a professional level, and not get into name calling.
It does not look well on us to get into the gutter when attacking our political rivals.
I agree that Duncan should have been at that meeting, but there may be more to it than just avoiding the discussion.
I also agree that Duncans recent press release was a gutless exercise in spin.
Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
Jim-- Please email him and tell him that. he has to be told that the spin isnt working and that we will NOT go away.
Steelhead S2
Active Member
If Duncan can't stand the heat he'd best get out of the kitchen. If he wants to hold public office he has to be there for his constituents. If he doesn't know when to quit, perhaps a few hundred angry fishermen will set him straight. Best of luck in his recovery. But the North Island needs active political representation just as much as Duncan needs his bed rest.
Islandgirl
Well-Known Member
X 10 Steelhead S2..my thoughts exactly .. he is WORKING FOR US.. employed by US.. his constituents! We can and WILL fire him too!
searun
Well-Known Member
A well crafted letter to the editor of your local paper to that effect would send a strong message that will get noticed 10 x more than a letter to Duncan.
Bassblaster
Active Member
Just got the latest Courier Islander paper. Great article about the meeting. They even got all the quotes correct. Someone must have had a tape recorder. They even left in the part when the one speaker told the guy in the audience to shut-up. Nice. I'm sure this is just what the fishing community needs. Press is a good thing, but unbiased Correct press is even better.
It has taken me a week to build up the courage to make this post, and before the moderators kick me off, or you all hunt me down and do violent things to me, I have got to make the following post. Before you judge me though, READ THE WHOLE THING!
I'd just like to point out that while tempers are hot on the halibut issue, this is not about halibut.
I've been on this forum for a year now (still a newbie compared to some) but I have been here long enough to see a very distinct pattern in many of the posts.
"Where are the fish?"
I don't mean where are you having luck today, I mean WHERE ARE THE FISH?
There are posts about management here on almost every species, NOT just Halibut.
Every species of Salmon, Steele Head, Crabs, Rock fish, Ling Cod, and the other bottom fish, FA just started a post about Prawns. And I see posts all the time that guys are out and can't even find bait on the sonar in a day afloat.
So I will say it again, this is not a Halibut issue. This is the DFO NOT DOING THEIR JOB! PERIOD!
If I can indulge all of you to step back from the Halibut issue for a minute, I would like the chance to lay out the actual facts about this. No I am not smarter than any of you, but I am looking at this whole thing through years of experience, from fighting the Gov't for your rights as legal gun owners in this country, to working in the outdoor products industry and as an outdoor writer and photographer, to running numerous businesses, to being a recreational fisherman, so my perspective is based on a wider field of view than concentrating on just the Halibut topic. I'm also going to propose some solutions based on these backgrounds, not just complain or blame someone else for all of our woes.
So let's start at the bottom line.
I was at the CR meeting for Halibut and here is what I heard based on my experience.
WE ALL WANT MORE. More fish, more customers, more sales, more money, more ability to KEEP what we catch, more ability to enjoy our sport. WELL, ME TOO!
Whether we are recreational sportsmen, guides, lodges, or Commercial fisherman, we all want more. I heard the sports fishing industry's voice loud and clear at that meeting. But don't you all think that the commercial fisherman that were in that room also want more? Are their families and the related industries they support less important than yours? And yes I know all about the slipper skippers. And yes you have a point, but how are they any different from the the John Patteson's ( Save-on foods etc,etc.) or the Walmart family, or Warren Buffet, or Ray Crock (MacDonalds), or any of the other millions of business people around the world and across your street that have successful companies that earn them money when they aren't there? Do you think Ray Crock flips the burgers at a MacDonalds? Not a chance!
No, the difference is that our DFO GAVE these people their allocations to start with. THAT is what is unjust about this practice. Running a business is not against any law. It is the fact that our government gave away OUR fish with no discussion that pisses us all off.
By the same token, the commercial fishermen in that room the other night had invested literally millions of dollars to EARN their livings. Do you think for one minute that they wouldn't also like to be able to catch more than the 14,000 pounds of Halibut that someone else mentioned on the site? They provide a valuable service to ALL Canadians that DON'T OR CAN'T catch their own Halibut. And that goes for every other commercially harvested fish in our territorial waters. The reason they can't, and the reason we can't catch more, is because there aren't more to catch without destroying the population in which case WE ALL get to catch NONE! That goes for all the other fish we talk about on this site. (This ties in nicely with the post about DFO only wanting to manage farmed fish)
REALITY CHECK; The needs of the many (Canadian citizens, not boat captains) outweigh the needs of a few (The rest of us).
So who's job is it to make sure we have fish? DFO. Why don't we have fish? Because they aren't doing their jobs.
I'd like to make something clear at this point. I am not talking about the field officers here. They are handcuffed with crap budgets, manpower restrictions, and large areas to cover. It is the beaureucrats that sit at desks and collect a Gov't Union wage for NOT doing their jobs.
So, suggestion one is;
Work WITH the commercial fishermen to add even MORE pressure to DFO regarding the real problem: FISH STOCKS.
Having lead the charge against the still existing gun registry I can tell you that pissing on one another gets you nowhere fast. If you want to do something about this then we need to UNITE fisherman of all kinds and that fish for ALL fish, not just halibut. I saw this with gun owners. People who didn't have handguns could have cared less about them and in some cases fought to have them banned. NEWS FLASH! A GUN IS A GUN TO THE GOV'T. and a FISH IS A FISH.
You are all going to all this effort for Halibut, and then saying the other fish will follow. I look at the success posts on the site and say What later? It's here NOW! You have mentioned divide and conquer techniques. So you go through this for Halibut. Do you REALLY want to do it again for Salmon? Steele Head? ETC, ETC.
This topic effects ALL fishermen and all fish. Fresh and Salt water, recreational, Pro, and Commercial. We should be putting our energy into working together to solve the real problems, not fighting with each other and stealing from Peter to pay Paul. That will end in disaster for the industry just as it does when done financially. You do not build a winning army by fighting as tiny groups. You win by joining forces with Everyone that is remotely connected to the same cause and then you wipe out the enemy with shear force of numbers.
REALITY CHECK: How many anglers actually fish for Halibut? How many anglers fish for everything else? What group do you think will win in an argument based on numbers? MORE IS BETTER!
WE should not have to buy quota to catch more fish. And the commercial fisherman who provide everyone else with fish should not have to give any up. The FISH SHOULD BE THERE so we can all benefit. 12% 0f 100,000 is 12,000. But 12% of a million is 120,000. This isn't one extra fish, its TEN TIMES THE FISH!
For all of the lodges, guides, and tackle suppliers on this site, do you think you could sell more trips, charters, and tackle if there was ten times the fish to catch? Do you think the commercial sector would support higher returns for all of the money they have invested?
Continued in next post
It has taken me a week to build up the courage to make this post, and before the moderators kick me off, or you all hunt me down and do violent things to me, I have got to make the following post. Before you judge me though, READ THE WHOLE THING!
I'd just like to point out that while tempers are hot on the halibut issue, this is not about halibut.
I've been on this forum for a year now (still a newbie compared to some) but I have been here long enough to see a very distinct pattern in many of the posts.
"Where are the fish?"
I don't mean where are you having luck today, I mean WHERE ARE THE FISH?
There are posts about management here on almost every species, NOT just Halibut.
Every species of Salmon, Steele Head, Crabs, Rock fish, Ling Cod, and the other bottom fish, FA just started a post about Prawns. And I see posts all the time that guys are out and can't even find bait on the sonar in a day afloat.
So I will say it again, this is not a Halibut issue. This is the DFO NOT DOING THEIR JOB! PERIOD!
If I can indulge all of you to step back from the Halibut issue for a minute, I would like the chance to lay out the actual facts about this. No I am not smarter than any of you, but I am looking at this whole thing through years of experience, from fighting the Gov't for your rights as legal gun owners in this country, to working in the outdoor products industry and as an outdoor writer and photographer, to running numerous businesses, to being a recreational fisherman, so my perspective is based on a wider field of view than concentrating on just the Halibut topic. I'm also going to propose some solutions based on these backgrounds, not just complain or blame someone else for all of our woes.
So let's start at the bottom line.
I was at the CR meeting for Halibut and here is what I heard based on my experience.
WE ALL WANT MORE. More fish, more customers, more sales, more money, more ability to KEEP what we catch, more ability to enjoy our sport. WELL, ME TOO!
Whether we are recreational sportsmen, guides, lodges, or Commercial fisherman, we all want more. I heard the sports fishing industry's voice loud and clear at that meeting. But don't you all think that the commercial fisherman that were in that room also want more? Are their families and the related industries they support less important than yours? And yes I know all about the slipper skippers. And yes you have a point, but how are they any different from the the John Patteson's ( Save-on foods etc,etc.) or the Walmart family, or Warren Buffet, or Ray Crock (MacDonalds), or any of the other millions of business people around the world and across your street that have successful companies that earn them money when they aren't there? Do you think Ray Crock flips the burgers at a MacDonalds? Not a chance!
No, the difference is that our DFO GAVE these people their allocations to start with. THAT is what is unjust about this practice. Running a business is not against any law. It is the fact that our government gave away OUR fish with no discussion that pisses us all off.
By the same token, the commercial fishermen in that room the other night had invested literally millions of dollars to EARN their livings. Do you think for one minute that they wouldn't also like to be able to catch more than the 14,000 pounds of Halibut that someone else mentioned on the site? They provide a valuable service to ALL Canadians that DON'T OR CAN'T catch their own Halibut. And that goes for every other commercially harvested fish in our territorial waters. The reason they can't, and the reason we can't catch more, is because there aren't more to catch without destroying the population in which case WE ALL get to catch NONE! That goes for all the other fish we talk about on this site. (This ties in nicely with the post about DFO only wanting to manage farmed fish)
REALITY CHECK; The needs of the many (Canadian citizens, not boat captains) outweigh the needs of a few (The rest of us).
So who's job is it to make sure we have fish? DFO. Why don't we have fish? Because they aren't doing their jobs.
I'd like to make something clear at this point. I am not talking about the field officers here. They are handcuffed with crap budgets, manpower restrictions, and large areas to cover. It is the beaureucrats that sit at desks and collect a Gov't Union wage for NOT doing their jobs.
So, suggestion one is;
Work WITH the commercial fishermen to add even MORE pressure to DFO regarding the real problem: FISH STOCKS.
Having lead the charge against the still existing gun registry I can tell you that pissing on one another gets you nowhere fast. If you want to do something about this then we need to UNITE fisherman of all kinds and that fish for ALL fish, not just halibut. I saw this with gun owners. People who didn't have handguns could have cared less about them and in some cases fought to have them banned. NEWS FLASH! A GUN IS A GUN TO THE GOV'T. and a FISH IS A FISH.
You are all going to all this effort for Halibut, and then saying the other fish will follow. I look at the success posts on the site and say What later? It's here NOW! You have mentioned divide and conquer techniques. So you go through this for Halibut. Do you REALLY want to do it again for Salmon? Steele Head? ETC, ETC.
This topic effects ALL fishermen and all fish. Fresh and Salt water, recreational, Pro, and Commercial. We should be putting our energy into working together to solve the real problems, not fighting with each other and stealing from Peter to pay Paul. That will end in disaster for the industry just as it does when done financially. You do not build a winning army by fighting as tiny groups. You win by joining forces with Everyone that is remotely connected to the same cause and then you wipe out the enemy with shear force of numbers.
REALITY CHECK: How many anglers actually fish for Halibut? How many anglers fish for everything else? What group do you think will win in an argument based on numbers? MORE IS BETTER!
WE should not have to buy quota to catch more fish. And the commercial fisherman who provide everyone else with fish should not have to give any up. The FISH SHOULD BE THERE so we can all benefit. 12% 0f 100,000 is 12,000. But 12% of a million is 120,000. This isn't one extra fish, its TEN TIMES THE FISH!
For all of the lodges, guides, and tackle suppliers on this site, do you think you could sell more trips, charters, and tackle if there was ten times the fish to catch? Do you think the commercial sector would support higher returns for all of the money they have invested?
Continued in next post
Bassblaster
Active Member
But herein lies the second problem that no-one has addressed yet.
REALITY CHECK; Our economy as a whole, SUCKS!
I listened at the CR meeting to small business men from the sports fishing industry explain how sales had critically dropped. Damn straight! Half the population is looking for work, and the other half has no disposable income because the markets crashed and took all of our spare money with them. Even if someone has disposable income the odds are that it isn't as much as it used to be, and there is a pretty damn big list of things it needs to be spent on before a fishing trip or new tackle.
Look around! People have to move to find work. Their homes have all dropped in value. Inflation hasn't stopped, and wages are down.
I truly feel bad for any business that has had to let people go because the dollars are not in the budget to hire them for the season or keep them working, but it is a reality of ALL industries right now. Construction, at a standstill compared to 2008. Realestate, logging, mining, oil, technologies, and the biggest sector in the country, RETAIL, are all getting Sh&tkicked.
I have been there. In 2009 when the market collapsed I lost my company through no fault of my own. 38 people lost their jobs effecting over 100 family members. Over 100 related businesses and suppliers were effected, some severely. Our family's entire financial situation and future was wiped out in the blink of eye and cost us everything. Total personal losses were in the millions. (Having said this in retrospect IT WAS MY FAULT. Because I did not pay attention to the big picture, I was blindsided. My loss, lesson learned)
I know how many of you are feeling right now.
The fear of losing everything you have poured your sweat into, probably for years. The pressure on your family life. The potential loss of your income whether you are self employed or work for yourself. An uncertain future.
As I said before, this issue is not about Halibut. It is simply the catalyst that people have reacted to.
Really, do you honestly believe that catching an extra fish is going to save an industry? At best it MIGHT be a bandaid approach. Besides, this is not an issue of Catching fish, it is an issue of getting to KILL the fish you catch. You can Catch as many as you want. You just have to put them back.
So I would ask the sport fishing industry as a whole this question.
Three years from now, will I remember eating even a single meal of Halibut that I caught on a charter, or will I relive and retell the EXPERIENCE of being on that charter? What about five years down the road? What about ten? Do I take photos of my food? Or do I have photos of the fish fresh on the boat?
From talking to a number of you on this site, and many sport-fishermen who are not, most of you cannot even eat all of the halibut you catch, giving the remainder to family, friends, and neighbours.
And to keep things fair, if there are any commercial fisherman on the site, you know as well as me that the mortality rates of by-catch fish is having a big effect on fish numbers. Throwing back dead, out of season fish IS NOT HELPING!
If we are going to save our businesses, our sport, and our right to fish, we had better start pulling our heads out of the sand and start working together, determining what the real issues are, and then coming up with realistic (even if they are initially painful) solutions to the real problems.
If we do not do this, there will be no need for sites like this one. There will be nothing to report because there will truly be no fish.
I am sorry if this post upsets anyone or if it has made me any enemies. I will fight to the death on the front-lines for a real cause, which I believe vanishing Fish Stocks are. But I will not stand by as one group of Canadians slams another that it should be working with because it is a convenient short cut to meeting an immediate need. If you'd like suggestions on finding alternative ways to improve your businesses, I'm happy to pass on any and all suggestions from my years of experience.
In closing, Warren Buffet, one of the richest men on this planet has a saying that he says is what made him as successful as he is.
"What are the Facts. Not the perceived facts. Not the hoped for facts. Not the believed facts. But the REAL Facts. Not knowing these makes all of your effort futile, and failure is guaranteed."
REALITY CHECK; Our economy as a whole, SUCKS!
I listened at the CR meeting to small business men from the sports fishing industry explain how sales had critically dropped. Damn straight! Half the population is looking for work, and the other half has no disposable income because the markets crashed and took all of our spare money with them. Even if someone has disposable income the odds are that it isn't as much as it used to be, and there is a pretty damn big list of things it needs to be spent on before a fishing trip or new tackle.
Look around! People have to move to find work. Their homes have all dropped in value. Inflation hasn't stopped, and wages are down.
I truly feel bad for any business that has had to let people go because the dollars are not in the budget to hire them for the season or keep them working, but it is a reality of ALL industries right now. Construction, at a standstill compared to 2008. Realestate, logging, mining, oil, technologies, and the biggest sector in the country, RETAIL, are all getting Sh&tkicked.
I have been there. In 2009 when the market collapsed I lost my company through no fault of my own. 38 people lost their jobs effecting over 100 family members. Over 100 related businesses and suppliers were effected, some severely. Our family's entire financial situation and future was wiped out in the blink of eye and cost us everything. Total personal losses were in the millions. (Having said this in retrospect IT WAS MY FAULT. Because I did not pay attention to the big picture, I was blindsided. My loss, lesson learned)
I know how many of you are feeling right now.
The fear of losing everything you have poured your sweat into, probably for years. The pressure on your family life. The potential loss of your income whether you are self employed or work for yourself. An uncertain future.
As I said before, this issue is not about Halibut. It is simply the catalyst that people have reacted to.
Really, do you honestly believe that catching an extra fish is going to save an industry? At best it MIGHT be a bandaid approach. Besides, this is not an issue of Catching fish, it is an issue of getting to KILL the fish you catch. You can Catch as many as you want. You just have to put them back.
So I would ask the sport fishing industry as a whole this question.
Three years from now, will I remember eating even a single meal of Halibut that I caught on a charter, or will I relive and retell the EXPERIENCE of being on that charter? What about five years down the road? What about ten? Do I take photos of my food? Or do I have photos of the fish fresh on the boat?
From talking to a number of you on this site, and many sport-fishermen who are not, most of you cannot even eat all of the halibut you catch, giving the remainder to family, friends, and neighbours.
And to keep things fair, if there are any commercial fisherman on the site, you know as well as me that the mortality rates of by-catch fish is having a big effect on fish numbers. Throwing back dead, out of season fish IS NOT HELPING!
If we are going to save our businesses, our sport, and our right to fish, we had better start pulling our heads out of the sand and start working together, determining what the real issues are, and then coming up with realistic (even if they are initially painful) solutions to the real problems.
If we do not do this, there will be no need for sites like this one. There will be nothing to report because there will truly be no fish.
I am sorry if this post upsets anyone or if it has made me any enemies. I will fight to the death on the front-lines for a real cause, which I believe vanishing Fish Stocks are. But I will not stand by as one group of Canadians slams another that it should be working with because it is a convenient short cut to meeting an immediate need. If you'd like suggestions on finding alternative ways to improve your businesses, I'm happy to pass on any and all suggestions from my years of experience.
In closing, Warren Buffet, one of the richest men on this planet has a saying that he says is what made him as successful as he is.
"What are the Facts. Not the perceived facts. Not the hoped for facts. Not the believed facts. But the REAL Facts. Not knowing these makes all of your effort futile, and failure is guaranteed."
Thanks for the info on the meeting, I have sent off letters to the minister and my M.P. Rob Merrifield as well as a e-mail to the website. There are several people from Whitecourt,Alberta who have said that they will write letters.We Albertans fish the salt chuck and feel the same way as you.
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