Aquaculture; improving????

[agentaqua]

Thanks for keeping it on topic and having a debate over the available science - both birdie & WMY. Appreciate that.

I know Stewart and Sonja have always been cautiously supportive of the industry that supports their employment. Gary Marty even more so - even when not asked.

I think stating that the FF source for PRv in BC depends on "movement of infected Pacific salmon or trout eggs could have concomitantly spread PRV in Europe" is quite a stretch - esp. when one examines the genetics of PRv - that is Norwegian in origin. FFs are still the most plausible source - altho we may never actually know the source from all the regulatory loopholes I keep mentioning.

Again - I am convinced that doubt is used as a weapon to quell inconvenient questions and the Communications Branch of DFO - under guidance from the Department of Justice lawyers have a history of injecting doubt wherever they can get away with it. Saw that lots in the ISAv question - and one can see that in action from the link I posted on Post #554: http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/206/30...F/RULINGREISAVDOCUMENTPRODUCTION.PDF#zoom=100

Also saw that lots in the HSMI/PRv question where DFO & the industry sought to disassociate PRv being the most plausible cause of HMSI until the Di Cicco et al. longitudinal study came along. If one is looking for patterns - and patterns of consistently being purposely wrong - just look again at the Siah "faint hope" study you just posted Birdie: "Although PRV was proposed to be the causal agent of HSMI [4, 5], recent studies using molecular diagnostics have found PRV to be present in wild and farmed Atlantic salmon that are clinically healthy, as well as those suffering from HSMI". Selling doubt yet again. The consequences of admitting wrong-doing are well known by FF and DoJ lawyers.

These suggestions that PRv didn't cause HMSI were simply wrong - speaking of endless patterns of denial and sowing doubt. Same can be said of sea lice and ISAv.

 

[agentaqua]

Kristi-Miller Saunders also had to deal with that - interference from upper-level DFO bureaucrats and the Communications Branch in wording due to the implications of the results from her work:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/krist-miller-scientist-dfo-muzzled-1.3308549
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...tist-says-privy-council-silenced-her-1.987107
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/08/25/kristi-miller-fisheries-scientist_n_937247.html

So - before the FF PR people try to deny this interference is not common - it is.

 

[agentaqua]

As far as the misleading suggesting that PRv can't cause disease in wild stocks - there are numerous strains of PRV:

And like all viruses - including ISAv - it mutates. And they didn't test all known strains of PRv neither. Nor did they necessarily test the animals when HMSI lesions were most likely to occur - as shown in the Di Cicco et al study.

So, like ISAv - PRv can mutate into more virulent forms - like all viruses. Testing with 1 strain of PRv is no guarantee that PRv doesn't or won't cause HMSI or other disease symptoms in wild Pacific salmon - now or in the future.

Yet again sowing doubt - the authors in this study unequivocally state: "PRV from western North America is avirulent". YIKES!

 

[agentaqua]

I think your last post is an area we can all enthusiastically agree on birdie - "more work is needed".

When DFO & CFIA stop refusing to release real-time notification on disease outbreaks in FFs w geographic coordinates - maybe we can roll along and lean important details about the epidemiology and transfer risks to wild stocks.

 

[agentaqua]

https://www.intrafish.com/aquaculture/mowi-to-harvest-salmon-on-suspicion-of-disease/2-1-704208

Mowi to harvest salmon on suspicion of disease
The company informed authorities of the situation on Nov. 7.

11 November 2019 12:10 GMT Updated 11 November 2019 12:11 GMT
by Ole Jacob Strønen Riise

"Norwegian salmon giant Mowi is planning to start harvesting fish on Nov. 11 from its Western Norway site following disease suspicions on Friday.

Mowi informed the Norwegian Food Safety Authority of the possibility of the spread of infectious salmon anemia (ISA) in its Kjealoha site on Nov. 7.

Samples taken by Pathogen Analysis and Pharmaq Analytiq tested positive.

The site holds 1.2 million fish at an average weight of 4.3 kilograms, Mowi Communications Manager Eivind Naevdal told IntraFish.

"We are in dialogue with the Norwegian Food Safety Authority about the situation and plan to start harvesting from parts of the plant this coming Monday," Naevdal said on Friday.

The Food Inspectorate will inspect the site and take samples and the company is prohibited from moving fish to avoid the spread of the disease.

If ISA is detected on the site, the Norwegian Food Safety Authority will establish a control area to limit any spread of the disease.

The control area will consist of a combat zone and a surveillance zone. It must be about 10 to 20 kilometers away from the site with the ISA diagnosis and the combat zone should be about 5 to 10 kilometers.

 

[Birdsnest]

So aa post studies which supposably support his comments. Others read the studies and highlight info from them that clearly appose agents comments on them and now agent claims corruption in the studies he/she posted and now claims corruption amongst not only the government but the scientists from the links he/she posted.
don’t forget agent. Miller also is very clear that there is not isa on the west coast along with Washington state and the state of Alaska.
Let me guess, ther’re all corrupt? you are consistently flip flopping on papers and continuously hand picking.... shucks never mind. Cary on with the isa accusations and conspiracy theory’s. Seems to be the remaining core of your arguments.

 

[patbay]

Let me guess, ther’re all corrupt? you are consistently flip flopping on papers and continuously hand picking.... shucks never mind. Cary on with the isa accusations and conspiracy theory’s. Seems to be the remaining core of your arguments.

I actually don't get that sense at all. I think AA is very clear and professional in delivering the information. I find that he/she sticks to the facts and doesn't get involved in any of the name calling that the fish farmers get into. Its actually you guys that get all worked up over every post and cry foul and whatever else anytime the facts can't be disputed or written off by some silly excuse. Reading this thread and seeing you farmers all bent out of shape is actually quite comical.

 

[ChinookExerciser]

https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/363813.pdf

3.5 Summary of key considerations for an evaluation of risk posed to wild salmon through transfer of PRV positive fish to the marine environment. The following factors should be considered in any evaluation of risk posed to wild Pacific Salmon through PRV positive fish to the marine environment.

• On the West Coast of North America PRV has been found in all species of Pacific salmon, with the exception of Pink Salmon. PRV is widely distributed (Washington to Alaska) including regions where there are no salmon farms.
• Given its lack of known association with disease on the West Coast, PRV is a virus that has not been routinely tested for by Aquaculture Management Division.
• PRV has been identified in archived tissue samples from BC dating as far back as 1987, and possibly earlier.
• In Norway, PRV has been identified in some non-salmonid marine fish species. The numbers of non-salmonids on the West Coast of North America that have been tested for PRV is insufficient to address whether there are non-salmonid reservoirs of PRV. Pacific Region Science Response: Piscine Reovirus on the West Coast of North America 12
• Injection challenge trials of Atlantic and Chinook Salmon using PRV-infected tissue homogenates obtained from BC farmed Chinook Salmon that were showing signs of jaundice, but not HSMI, did not cause HSMI, or other apparent disease over a 22 week period (Garver et al. 2015). These challenges were conducted in seawater. • Injection challenge trials of naïve Atlantic Salmon using PRV-infected tissue homogenates obtained from farmed Atlantic Salmon without HSMI resulted in the establishment of PRV infections, but not the development of HSMI, or other disease over a 24 week period (Garver et al. submitted2 ). These challenges were conducted in seawater.
• Co-habitation challenge trials using PRV infected Atlantic Salmon not showing signs of HSMI resulted in sentinel Atlantic and Sockeye Salmon becoming infected with PRV. However, these fish did not develop HSMI, or other disease over a 41 week period (Garver et al. 2015). These challenges were conducted in seawater.
• Injection trials of Chinook Salmon and Rainbow Trout with PRV did not result in mortality or the development of HSMI (Meyers 2014) (Dr. Maureen Purcell, Western Fisheries Research Center, US Geological Survey, Seattle, WA, pers. comm.). These challenges were conducted in fresh water.
• PRV is infectious to Atlantic, Chinook, Sockeye Salmon and Rainbow Trout by injection or co-habitation. In the studies by Garver et al. (2015), PRV loads in challenged fish were generally comparable to PRV loads reported to be associated with the presence of and/or development of HSMI in Norway. Furthermore, in all cases, the duration of these experiments exceeded the time required for HSMI to develop as reported in laboratory challenges conducted in Norway.
• Assuming a similar presentation of HSMI in BC farmed Atlantic salmon as seen in Norway, veterinarians and/or the government Audit Programs would have identified HSMI if it were present. • Over the past decade, about 2% of BC farmed salmon die each year of heart disease of unknown cause (idiopathic cardiomyopathy). However, the clinical features and microscopic lesions with these deaths do not match heart diseases described in Norway, including HSMI, CMS, PD, and the recently described disease of Rainbow Trout. More recently with inclusion of skeletal muscle in the audit samples, about 10% of these fish (0.2% of the total) have also been found to have significant inflammation of skeletal muscle, as well as heart lesions. The cause or causes of this heart disease are unknown, however, even if the 2% are dying of an infectious disease, the low prevalence supports the conclusion that the disease is not highly infectious to Atlantic Salmon.

 

[agentaqua]

and you are misquoting kristi - yet again, birdie

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

I actually don't get that sense at all. I think AA is very clear and professional in delivering the information. I find that he/she sticks to the facts and doesn't get involved in any of the name calling that the fish farmers get into. Its actually you guys that get all worked up over every post and cry foul and whatever else anytime the facts can't be disputed or written off by some silly excuse. Reading this thread and seeing you farmers all bent out of shape is actually quite comical.

well #564 and #575 explain quite well that we supporters of FF's are just "ignorant". Ok, I guess from your perspective that isn't name calling - just science! LOL. AA is a strong debater and can defend his/her positions quite well. The call out is because the position taken by the poster isn't supported by the evidence supplied. This is a good healthy debate. As Mitt Romney once famously said "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts".

 

[ChinookExerciser]

Its to me if we care about wild salmon then we best put the farms on land and stop the hatcheries!

Appendix 9: Council Member View on Risk – Perspective 1 Table of Contents

https://sportfishing.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Case-for-Caution.pdf

Dr. Rosenau’s two major conclusions (reproduced from Slide 73 of his briefing to the Council) were as follows:

1. Multiple lines of evidence strongly support the conclusion that where juvenile salmonids migrate through areas of concentrated fish farms in south-western British Columbia, there have been large-scale collapses over many different species and populations, including the Gulf of Georgia, Fraser River and some west coast Vancouver Island watersheds.
2. This decline in salmon abundance has been the most catastrophic aquatic ecosystem collapse in the history of British Columbia, and the evidence points to the proliferation of fish farms, in timing and location, in south-western British Columbia.

 

[agentaqua]

Are Chile's industrial salmon farms changing the seas?
Some indigenous Chileans believe the farms are killing off marine life and also threatening their communities' future.
https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/chile-industrial-salmon-farms-changing-seas-191110182531076.html

 

[ChinookExerciser]

Are Chile's industrial salmon farms changing the seas?
Some indigenous Chileans believe the farms are killing off marine life and also threatening their communities' future.
https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/chile-industrial-salmon-farms-changing-seas-191110182531076.html

Didn't you just post that wild chinook salmon are thriving in chile?

you are making me confused now

 

[patbay]

well #564 and #575 explain quite well that we supporters of FF's are just "ignorant". Ok, I guess from your perspective that isn't name calling - just science! LOL. AA is a strong debater and can defend his/her positions quite well. The call out is because the position taken by the poster isn't supported by the evidence supplied. This is a good healthy debate. As Mitt Romney once famously said "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts".

All you do is go round and round. You question all the science as if you think you are smarter than the scientists. You aren't debating, you are solely here to push the FF propaganda. Its not hard to see through that.

 

[Dave]

Sino, perhaps you can add something new to this discussion?

 

[patbay]

Nope. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents there. Are the farmers going to add anything new? I haven't seen much new from them in years.

 

[ChinookExerciser]

Nope. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents there. Are the farmers going to add anything new? I haven't seen much new from them in years.

Who is a farmer and what farm do they work at??

use name please

 

[patbay]

I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself on that as Admin has been pretty clear on the rules. So I'll pass on the bait, but its quite clear to anyone following the posts recently, and even clearer if you've been following for a couple years.

 

[terrin]

Nope. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents there. Are the farmers going to add anything new? I haven't seen much new from them in years.

Some good news is coming for Wild Salmon as far as removing Open Net Cage Fish Farms from the Ocean. The DFO has a Fudiciary duty to the Wild Salmon. They must act quickly as the courts will not be kind.

 

[ChinookExerciser]

I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself on that as Admin has been pretty clear on the rules. So I'll pass on the bait, but its quite clear to anyone following the posts recently, and even clearer if you've been following for a couple years.

so the rules are as long as we use a broad brush its okay? so like saying it's pretty obvious that some here represent large scale ENGO's is okay too? it's pretty obvious who they are.