Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread

Obviously we need to manage the impacts that humans have on the environment we depend on. Only a stupid person would keep crapping in their house and not expect some negative impacts eventually.

The point is when there is growing amount of peer reviewed scientific evidence that something is causing harm only a fool delays and/or does little about it. History is full of examples of the greed and stupidity of humans that have ruined cities, cultures, species and environments. We can only do this for so long before some bad stuff happens to more and more humans.

I am not against fish farming just do
it on land to better manage the negative impacts.
 
Great posts & discussion between SF & WitW. That problem of costs vs. benefit is one that an environmental assessment is supposed to take on. But as well know that is precisely why this industry has been exempt from any such scrutiny since the start. There are many places on the Pacific Coast that are the worst possible places to interact the wild salmon stocks in the migratory pathways of the most salmon like the Discovery Islands. And who gets to make these decisions based on what criteria? I think that is what this latest science is suggesting.
 
What of some of the farms stayed where FN support and were removed where there is no support. Salmon returns would improve where the FN remove (Broughton) and the salmon returns would stay good where the farms stay ( quatsino, port hardy and klemtu) and some economic benefits will still be realized.

It is funny how shellfish aquaculture is not questioned and folks don't mind lossing access to thousands of acres of beaches. Sablefish aquaculture is also not questioned but those fish still poop, are fed pellets and are given medication ..... as stated all agriculture/ aquaculture gas some impacts.
 
I think effects from shellfish aquaculture has been questioned, HG - mostly concerns about refuse & invasive species.


By-and-large the ability of both adult & juvenile salmon to swim hundreds - if not thousands of km - connects potential impacts of amplified disease/parasite vectors in a much larger web of negative interactions than passive drift of vectors - which also happens.

Then there a sheer numbers of wild salmon on Pacific Coast as compared to elsewhere in the World where the ONPSF happens that can and do interact with the many hundreds of thousands of farmed fish on each site.

I never see the FF lobby wish to admit these realities.
 
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Because a past mouthpiece/investor for Spectra Energy from Toronto, brings a "wealth of experience and expertise" into the debate into wild/cultured stock interactions on the Pacific Coast. Or maybe instead after CAIA imploded ... it's the fact that this lobbyist lives in Ottawa and is accessible to tell lies to the dumb f*ck naïve politicians in Ottawa after the drama teacher leaves is more the important part? Just a question...
 


 
AA: you know chum are a species that returns vary greatly with the brood year size having no correlation to returns. It us so variable that DFO does not really try to Forcast chum returns. I can think of many examples where large chum returns were expected and it was a bust and also the opposite. That being said it is nice to see any good returns including rivers close to farms.

I'm glad to see they mention ocean survival as a likely reason for the returns.

What will Elmo say next year if returns are not so good?
 
Does anyone else think about a covid bounce in the upwards direction?.. 2, 3, 4 yrs out from it?
There was less pressure at that time from both sport and commercial, no?
 
AA: you know chum are a species that returns vary greatly with the brood year size having no correlation to returns. It us so variable that DFO does not really try to Forcast chum returns. I can think of many examples where large chum returns were expected and it was a bust and also the opposite. That being said it is nice to see any good returns including rivers close to farms.

I'm glad to see they mention ocean survival as a likely reason for the returns.

What will Elmo say next year if returns are not so good?
Quite a bit to unpack within your assertions, HG. The short answer is: "It's complicated & complex".

The Pacific salmon species that I would expect would have less "noise" within the stock recruitment relationships between juvies and adults would be pinks - because they have a 2 YO wrt life history verses a 3-6 YO life history for the other Pacific salmon. They don't get to make decisions to postpone returning until the next year if ocean conditions suck like it did during the blob. After the blob went away - the proportion of 5 & 6 YOs in the returning salmon spawners increased in some species like Chinook - as the adults decided to wait it out an extra year as many of the creeks were too hot to enter.

And pinks and chums have the smallest & most vulnerable smolts wrt sea lice loading from FFs as lice mortality is size-mediated (or more accurately weight-moderated). So these are the canaries in the coal mine to assess effects from sea lice loading - but not the only species that are affected by other vectors like diseases - like PRv. Chinook are more likely affected there - especially WCVI Chinook juvies in and around Tofino/Clayoquot Sound FFs.

Another very significant issue for all species is - how do we determine accurate numbers of outmigrating juvies and match them to accurate numbers of returning adults from the same cohort a few years later?

Well which creeks have both smolt & adult fences? Not many. Not many accurate data points/locations that we can use to match cohorts. And one also needs to do scale analysis on the returning adult spawners to tease out the age/cohort groups.

Specifically with chum - they have been subject to a 1-2 punch, besides FF/sea lice. Chum spawn generally at the bottom of watersheds and their eggs in the females ripen in the salt chuck and when ready - they rush in and spawn fast. Residence time is often as low as 5 days verses 30+ for coho. But that's where the seiners used to get them - just outside the creeks - and historically they knocked most populations down. Many populations now only have 1 minor run - verses 2 decent runs (early & late). And the early run (often 3rd week of August - 1st week September) is particularly vulnerable to the effects of warmer creek water giving those incubating eggs a jump up on their ATUs and early emergence. On a hot year and a hot summer - those juvies might emerge into the estuaries as early as late February/early March - when there is nothing to eat yet (esp. harpactacoid copedopds) as they are 1-2 months earlier than they should be. Those juvies likely die and not seen nor counted in any smolt fence or trawl.

And lastly, chum move around way more than most other species of Pacific salmon. Their CUs are accordingly considerably larger than most watersheds for most areas. So, hard to track stream-specific runs to specific juvie numbers even if those numbers existed and were accurate. There would have to be an accurate DNA testing program to accompany the returns - and I doubt if the DNA was even able to differentiate many watershed-specific stocks.

I don't think that DFO actually counts chum in many creeks - especially accurately with a fish fence - and that's actually the reason why "DFO does not really try to Forecast chum returns". They have exceeding limited data on adults and next to nothing on juvies. Hard to model anything w/o data.

And then there is the discussion on migratory routes and tracking juvies past FFs to determine sequential and cumulative sea lice loading. That's quite a project in of itself.

The best & most practical option therefore is to compare & contrast any available watersheds with accurate smolt & adult fences - close to FFs and away from likely effects of FFs and see if those patterns are significantly different over time, esp. after FFs are removed.
 
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The chum return while good was still under the long term average ,

Years like 2016 ect were still better

Certainly not the “huge” return as stated by Elmo in that article.

Reminds me of political right vs left use what ever data fits what your peddling.

Kinda like this guy lol

 
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