Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread

[agentaqua]

Here's the rebuttal:

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"Here is the data the BCSFA is reporting on. My report found 94% fewer sea lice on young wild salmon in Okisollo Channel in 2021 when the farms were empty, than in 2020. The BC Salmon Farmers' data found 71.4% of young chum salmon were infected in 2020 and only 10% in 2021.... They only looked at fish 2xs, once in April and once in May, I looked at fish 2xs a month - April - June so our numbers are different, the trend is the same.. much lower when the farms were removed. For the BCSFA to state there was no change after the farms were removed is false, not supported by their own data. They know people will never check and so they are covering up yet another impact they have no intention or capacity to reduce on wild salmon."

 

[agentaqua]

Association between sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis) infestation on Atlantic salmon farms and wild Pacific salmon in Muchalat Inlet, Canada - Scientific Reports

Growth in salmon aquaculture over the past two decades has raised concerns regarding the potential impacts of the industry on neighboring ecosystems and wild fish productivity. Despite limited evidence, sea lice have been identified as a major cause for the decline in some wild Pacific salmon...

www.nature.com

Canadian Science Publishing

https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2664.2010.01889.x

Frontiers | Planktonic and Parasitic Sea Lice Abundance on Three Commercial Salmon Farms in Norway Throughout a Production Cycle

The present article reports the densities of planktonic sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis and Caligus elongatus) in three Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) local...

www.frontiersin.org

How sea lice from salmon farms may cause wild salmonid declines in Europe and North America and be a threat to fishes elsewhere | Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences

Fishes farmed in sea pens may become infested by parasites from wild fishes and in turn become point sources for parasites. Sea lice, copepods of the family Caligidae, are the best-studied example of this risk. Sea lice are the most significant parasitic ...

royalsocietypublishing.org

 

[Birdsnest]

Here's the rebuttal:

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View attachment 72766
"Here is the data the BCSFA is reporting on. My report found 94% fewer sea lice on young wild salmon in Okisollo Channel in 2021 when the farms were empty, than in 2020. The BC Salmon Farmers' data found 71.4% of young chum salmon were infected in 2020 and only 10% in 2021.... They only looked at fish 2xs, once in April and once in May, I looked at fish 2xs a month - April - June so our numbers are different, the trend is the same.. much lower when the farms were removed. For the BCSFA to state there was no change after the farms were removed is false, not supported by their own data. They know people will never check and so they are covering up yet another impact they have no intention or capacity to reduce on wild salmon."

Agent, Can you post the whole chart for 2021? Seems that most of it is missing for some reason?

 

[Birdsnest]

Agent, Can you post the whole chart for 2021? Seems that most of it is missing for some reason?

Dont bother agent. I see what you have posted is a small tiny weenie portion of the sample collection from the study. Seems to be a distraction tactic. More than enough for the believers but for others looking at all the data is more telling and closer to the truth.
Another point about the data to recognize is it was independently collected. Its not BCSF's data which they went out and collected.

For those interested in seeing a more detailed information on the data collected apposed to a rebuttal containing only a sliver of the data:

https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/BCSFA_SeaLice-In_DI_FINAL.pdf

 

[Birdsnest]

Heres another version:

• Sea louse numbers on juvenile salmon in 2021 were comparable to levels over the last five years
• 
  
• https://www.salmoncoast.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/SCFS_SeaLiceReport_2021-1.pdf

Take a look at the credits at the end. Wink wink.

 

[gone fishin]

Heres another version:

• Sea louse numbers on juvenile salmon in 2021 were comparable to levels over the last five years
• 
  
• https://www.salmoncoast.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/SCFS_SeaLiceReport_2021-1.pdf

Take a look at the credits at the end. Wink wink.

All that needs to be said is take a look and
JUNE 22 DO NOT RENEW

 

[Birdsnest]

Ban halibut farming as well! lol

 

[agentaqua]

PBS historically couldn't grow halibut - but rather caught subadult halibut and fed them. Not sure what the current status is on aquacultured halibut in Canada - but using rotifers as feed animals doesnt work for halibut larvae. Norway used harpactacoid copepods instead and had success. but it aint cheap to raise them, neither. So, I doubt if there is much of a economic potential there - even if they figure out how to raise them from eggs.

 

[agentaqua]

Here's what a juvie pink looks like from a non-farm area, as a comparison to the pic GF posted above:

 

[wildmanyeah]

lol

Typical PR anti fish farm hysteria that’s not based in reality

hook line and sinker apparently for some well researched “scientists”

 

[agentaqua]

Well I can't speak to the accuracy of the latest sea lice numbers posted by Morton - nor the industry neither (altho it's been proven that the self-reporting numbers by industry have been inaccurate and low as compared to independent assays: https://thenarwhal.ca/bc-salmon-farms-sea-lice/).

But, historically there are copious (many dozens if not hundreds of) studies/data/reports readily available to all the posters on here that have detailed the increase in sea lice on wild stocks from open net-pen operations World-wide. And any poster on here that wants to adopt and celebrate ignorance can - but that doesn't mean the rest of us are uninformed or ignorant or wish to celebrate that approach. And any poster can respond to the science posted in the science journals by publishing a critique on that article in the same journal that published it if they have conflicting data. typing"LOL" on a forum doesn't cut it tho.

see:

https://livingoceans.org/sites/default/files/salmonFarming_sealice_on_juvenile_salmon_2008.pdf

https://d3i71xaburhd42.cloudfront.net/5a64a8fc1412fa4693d2339b27202bc20f23730e/3-Figure3-1.png

Discovery Islands Salmon Farm Closure December, 2020

livingoceans.org

[PDF] Sea lice and salmon in Pacific Canada: ecology and policy | Semantic Scholar

Policy is needed that protects undeveloped juvenile salmon habitats and that supports long-term study of salmon ecosystems, to evaluate the sustainability of wild and farmed salmon. The spread of sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis) from salmon farms probably contributes to declines of some native...

www.semanticscholar.org

Association between sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis) infestation on Atlantic salmon farms and wild Pacific salmon in Muchalat Inlet, Canada - Scientific Reports

Growth in salmon aquaculture over the past two decades has raised concerns regarding the potential impacts of the industry on neighboring ecosystems and wild fish productivity. Despite limited evidence, sea lice have been identified as a major cause for the decline in some wild Pacific salmon...

www.nature.com

https://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41598-018-22458-8/MediaObjects/41598_2018_22458_Fig1_HTML.jpg?as=webp

https://dspace.library.uvic.ca/bitstream/handle/1828/3692/Price_Michael_MSc_2011.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

http://seangodwin.org/Godwinetal_2020_ICES.pdf

 

[agentaqua]

and the news doesn't seem to be improving for the industry back East, neither:

Sea lice, climate change fuel another mass die off at Mowi Canada | Intrafish

The company's Newfoundland-based operations experienced another loss -- its most recent in a string of mortalities.

www.intrafish.com

 

[terrin]

and the news doesn't seem to be improving for the industry back East, neither:

Sea lice, climate change fuel another mass die off at Mowi Canada | Intrafish

The company's Newfoundland-based operations experienced another loss -- its most recent in a string of mortalities.

www.intrafish.com

A Mowi Canada East salmon farming site. The division has struggled with sea lice and climate change incidents in the past several years

 

[wildmanyeah]

I wasn't contesting that sea lice outbreaks can and do occur around fish farms. Also not contesting that those outbreaks are passed on to nearby wild salmon.

What i was commenting on is the salacious before and after photos PR photos that have no basis in real science. However some of the Anti-fish farm PR pundits praise as being the silver bullet in salmon recovery. The same that link paper after paper but apparently don't have confidence in the papers that they resort to meaningless photos to pull at the stings of their donors.

The pictures are no different then the "well fed" killer whale that was actually pregnant and the old emaciated end of life killer whale. Its funny how some PR pundits can see though that but unable to see the exact same ridiculous sea lice picture comparisons somehow that the removal of fish farms will end seal lice from being in the ocean.

Its the same thing we are seeing with killer whales, seals, chinook, herring ect... pick your side, pick your paper and reinforce your own self bias. One thing for certain tho is when you find your self on the "wrong" side of the Antis don't act surprised just look in the mirror.

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks WMY for your respectful reply.

In regards to the pic posted by GF - I am assuming it came from ENGOs doing sea lice research in the Broughtons - and I do not know whether or not it represents an "average" number of sea lice from that study or not - but it could going back over a number of years when the sea lice abundances were quite high. But of concern to me is not just the amount of sea lice shown on one side of this fish (~23) - but teh fact that these are largely motile, adult lice that cause the most damage - AND - take ~38days @10C to grow to that life stage. That means that the fish shown would have received that lice load much earlier in it's marine emergence/migration very close to where the creek that it came from.

And the pic I posted is NOT from any ENGO and is from an area free of fish farms, and is of similar age/size. Drastically different results.

Just because the news is unpleasant doesnt necessarily mean we should ignore it and dismiss it offhand as the work of the evil ENGOs. And yes - I quite understand that some ENGOs are not friends and not honest about their intent, funding and biases. However, that industry is also a spectrum of intent and bias - and I would argue that the PSF and the ASF are two of the best ENGOs - along with many smaller local ENGOs that work in the fish end of things.

 

[Birdsnest]

Well here's a photo of a school of sockeye smolts right at a salmon farm. I can't spot a single lice on any of them.

 

[terrin]

I wasn't contesting that sea lice outbreaks can and do occur around fish farms. Also not contesting that those outbreaks are passed on to nearby wild salmon.

What i was commenting on is the salacious before and after photos PR photos that have no basis in real science. However some of the Anti-fish farm PR pundits praise as being the silver bullet in salmon recovery. The same that link paper after paper but apparently don't have confidence in the papers that they resort to meaningless photos to pull at the stings of their donors.

The pictures are no different then the "well fed" killer whale that was actually pregnant and the old emaciated end of life killer whale. Its funny how some PR pundits can see though that but unable to see the exact same ridiculous sea lice picture comparisons somehow that the removal of fish farms will end seal lice from being in the ocean.

Its the same thing we are seeing with killer whales, seals, chinook, herring ect... pick your side, pick your paper and reinforce your own self bias. One thing for certain tho is when you find your self on the "wrong" side of the Antis don't act surprised just look in the mirror.

Do you think perhaps, that Anti-fish farm PR pundits planted all those Sea Lice on that one juvinille Wild Salmon?

 

[Birdsnest]

No sea lice here on this photo of mature open pen atlantics. So what is the conclusion to be drawn from this image? Is this "all you need to know"?

 

[gone fishin]

No sea lice here on this photo of mature open pen atlantics. So what is the conclusion to be drawn from this image? Is this "all you need to know"?
View attachment 72789

Thanks for the great photo. Those fish don't look like smolts to me. Where was that taken?
The fact is and fish farms have admitted that Sea Lice spread by their fish farms do kill wild salmon.
The debate is how many dead salmon are acceptable.
Regular, honest, and open monitoring for disease and sea lice in and around fish farms by neutral parties would go a long way in bringing some creditability to the subject.

 

[Birdsnest]

Thanks for the great photo. Those fish don't look like smolts to me. Where was that taken?
The fact is and fish farms have admitted that Sea Lice spread by their fish farms do kill wild salmon.
The debate is how many dead salmon are acceptable.
Regular, honest, and open monitoring for disease and sea lice in and around fish farms by neutral parties would go a long way in bringing some creditability to the subject.

So are we done with the "all you need to know" photos?

I think if you look through this report you will find the source quit palatable and fitting to your taste. AM herself sits on the board! So why are her results (95% reduction in sea lice in 2021) so different from the report below???

https://www.salmoncoast.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/SCFS_SeaLiceReport_2021-1.pdf