Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Agent, will you support the above when S.35 is used to expand salmon farming in BC? Or when it is used against sport fishing?
Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread
- Thread starter islandboy
- Start date
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
He already has stated numerous times that he will begrudgingly accept first nation supported fish farming.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
You can essentially say this about any industry, how and when it is applied is what i am talking about
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Its already a major concern that the government will engage in nation to nation negotiations and the out come with be similar to fish farms that got removed.
3. Reconciliation
i) We support multi-sectoral collaborative consultation processes, not only to respect the Constitutional and Treaty obligations to provide priority access for First Nations Food, Social and Ceremonial (FSC) harvest opportunities, but also to develop Public Fishery plans in full transparency so that all parties can understand the science and contribute to the planning of socially and economically important Public Fisheries. We are however very concerned about the complexity of the multiple processes and how they will integrate with each other to achieve IFMP timeline objectives.
ii) The SFAB remains concerned that the Canadian Government at a broader level is using reallocation of Pacific Fishery resources as part of the reconciliation agenda with the cost being borne by non-indigenous Canadians residing in coastal and river-side communities who are dependent upon fishery resources for both livelihoods and food.
iii) Given there is a separate Salmon Allocation Policy review process underway, the SFAB urges DFO to utilize that process as intended with regards to changes to allocation. This would be the forum where broader issues of national responsibility, possible compensation, allocation transfers and other related priorities including those of the Public Fishery would be undertaken guided by a Terms of Reference with all affected parties at the table.
iv) The DFO letter says that DFO will consult with FN on fishing plans for FSC and that there is now a “mandated body”, the Fraser Salmon Management Council, that “will support engagement, decision making and recommendations relating to management of Fraser salmon.” It then adds that DFO “is working with the Fraser Salmon Management Board (FSMB) to develop a work plan and it is anticipated this process will support planning for the 2021 season.” Are the “Council” and the “Board” different entities and when will the SFAB be invited to participate in this process or processes? The SFAB seeks clarity from DFO as to how this process will integrate with existing multisectoral processes in an inclusive, transparent and collaborative manner.
v) Since DFO officials have an unavoidable conflict of interests in attempting to both honor the Crown’s obligations to indigenous people and represent the interests of all Canadians, the courts have made clear that Canadian stakeholders have a right to be present when government is discussing or negotiating their interests. The SFAB seeks clarity as to how this conflict will be resolved with regards to Tier 2 G2G discussions regarding harvest planning and allocation.
vi) The SFAB notes the small size of the First Nations FSC harvest of chinook in the marine waters between Vancouver Island and the mainland and believes this fishery on a mixed-stock abundance should be allowed to continue on a year-round basis. vii) While the SFAB has not traditionally provided advice on “how” other sectors fish to achieve their fishing goals, we do believe that important FSC opportunities, particularly important ceremonial opportunities on the Fraser River, should be able to happen as requested by First Nations, possibly by exploring new and alternative selective fishing methods. We support efforts to research these tools to provide more access for FN FSC in river fisheries.
s. 35 doesn't need my support or approval. It simply is our collective reality. Aboriginal and non-aboriginal. All Canadians. All Canadian colonial law (Acts and their respective regulations - both federal and provincial) generates their authority from the Constitution Act.
And by characterizing it instead as "colour-based" simply ignores this integral historical and legal fact. Ignorance is clearly not bliss.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
LOL. I see what you did there. Subtle, slight of hand of comment. I have not commented on race or my views on reconciliation, only policy.
But I see how you think and how you think made you come up with a comment like that.
Looks more like a Fish Farmer trying to pull sporties into the quicksand they have let themselves fall into for not evolving to a sustainable method of Farming. No thanks we have our own issues to deal with mostly resulting from the lack of Wild Salmon. This is the end result if no rules are put in place and enforced. https://thetyee.ca/News/2021/01/25/Babine-Lake-Mines-Leaking-Dangerous-Contaminants
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
I seemed to have missed the election process where you were appointed spokesperson for the entire sport fishing community. I'm not sure that holds water. Do you mean in your opinion? So, Fish farmers aren't a part of the sport fishing community? Loggers aren't members of the sport fishing community. Miner's aren't members of the sport fishing community? Im wondering where your list starts and ends. Is that how you see things? Not very inclusive or effective approach to solve problems. IMO
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Kinda obvious it is his opinion - what else could it be?
This whole scare tactic by pro FF folks to get the rec fishing sector all concerned smacks of a deflection technique to me (my opinion). As if anyone if the rec sector with minimal intelligence and basic awareness isn't already aware of the many issues and problems facing the public fishery. Not to say that public fishers should not be concerned or fighting to protect the public fishery - we all should!
However, we don't need to be part of this pro-FF deflection technique. The bottom line here - net pen fish farms need to move out of the water and onto land where their negative environmental impacts can be better managed. Can't happen soon enough and the industry needs to stop deflecting, making excuses and wasting time! This is my opinion too - one that is shared with a growing number of people around BC and the world from all sorts of sectors.
This whole scare tactic by pro FF folks to get the rec fishing sector all concerned smacks of a deflection technique to me (my opinion). As if anyone if the rec sector with minimal intelligence and basic awareness isn't already aware of the many issues and problems facing the public fishery. Not to say that public fishers should not be concerned or fighting to protect the public fishery - we all should!
However, we don't need to be part of this pro-FF deflection technique. The bottom line here - net pen fish farms need to move out of the water and onto land where their negative environmental impacts can be better managed. Can't happen soon enough and the industry needs to stop deflecting, making excuses and wasting time! This is my opinion too - one that is shared with a growing number of people around BC and the world from all sorts of sectors.
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Well I think it’s of great concern. That nation to nation negotiations without any industry consulting resulted in the removal of that industry.
imo the method of removal is concerning. Especially when we’re in a sin industry that plays with their food:
imo the method of removal is concerning. Especially when we’re in a sin industry that plays with their food:
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Its hard to take you seriously when you clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding. Not sure where you are getting that salmon farms spread disease. The comment as repetitive as it is from you is false. There is no evidence of disease being spread from farm fish to wild fish. There is evidence of pathogens and viruses being shared among wild salmon, hatchery salmon and farmed salmon in bc but disease has not been established. There is a big difference.
Its telling the desperation shown on this thread to disassociate my relating the salmon farming to the sport fishing sector in terms of how things are being handled with science and politics.
The post I quoted above is evidence that there are those contesting issues that lack understanding of some basic scientific terminology or are more than willing to miss represent what the fact actually are. And I dare say the same tactics are and will be used against sport fishing.
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G
gone fishin
Guest
From Birdsnest's last two posts
“I seemed to have missed the election process where you were appointed spokesperson for the entire sport fishing community”
“Its hard to take you seriously when you clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding.”
Birdsnest, I think a little more tolerance to those who don’t see things your way would be helpful
“I seemed to have missed the election process where you were appointed spokesperson for the entire sport fishing community”
“Its hard to take you seriously when you clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding.”
Birdsnest, I think a little more tolerance to those who don’t see things your way would be helpful
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
If ya cant figure that out by just reading all the copy and paste posts on this site, be careful what you wish for..
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SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
You could say this about most if not all industry in Canada, whats your point?
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
So now it all depends on "who" wants to be a ffarmer and aa will begrudgingly accept them
we can assume aa will accept any industry that fn so choose to do no matter what the environmental impact will be,
Nice to know hes not really against ff , just who owns them
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SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
I'm not a ff if thats what you think, never have been never will be,
I love doing what i do for a living, cant think of changing careers now, unless "they" come for my industry next
The way canada is going rules will only apply to anyone other then the FN
Good luck enforcing any "rules" there,
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
At the sake of sounding repetitive it is hard to take someone seriously who says that fish farms have NOT had negative impacts on the marine environment. What about the pesticides, antibiotics, effluent, feces, bacteria, and yes disease, etc, spread along with the pathogens and virus mentioned? What about the escapes, seal ice and incidental bycatch of young salmon and herring and sold or destroyed when the salmon are harvested? What about the marine mammals and orcas that are driven out of their traditional hunting grounds by loud acoustic noise?
I and more importantly many others much more knowledgeable than I on this could go on with the negative impacts from net pen fish farms.
https://www.livingoceans.org/initia...s-open-net-pen-salmon-farms-benefit-the-ocean
https://www.ohea.on.ca/blog/the-env...mendations-for-policy-in-canadian-aquaculture
https://wildfishconservancy.org/what-we-do/advocacy/net-pen-aquaculture
http://medwayriversalmonassociation...n_Net_Pen_Salmon_Aquaculture_March_1_2012.pdf
https://cwf-fcf.org/en/resources/research-papers/CRA_13102_Aquaculture_Manual_EN_web.pdf
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226.long
You don't have scientists from around the world, including those recently unmuzzled by DFO, organizations like the PSF, SFI-BC, BCWF, CWF and many other organizations on both coasts and in Scotland, Norway and Argentina to name a few, who are against net pen fish farming because they are stupid and ignorant. You don't get the prov and federal govt's realizing that they have to move these net pens onto land because it is a sustainable, environmentally safe method of raising fish for food.
Uninformed... read the dozens and dozens of posts and dozens upon dozens of articles and statements about the pollution, disease and shameful govt corruption and collusion re. net pen fish farms and there negative environmental impacts that have been posted on this forum.
The fact that both the industry and govts are now wanting to move net pen farms onto land to better manage their impacts speaks volumes and to the reality of the harm this industry causes in the marine environment. True I am no fish biologist but it is pretty hard to take anyone serious who works in directly in the industry and has an obvious myopic bias to protect and promote it. I get this desperation, but it doesn't make a harmful industrial method into something harmless.
The desperation it seems more apparently lies with those that are trying to prop up a unsustainable, outdated, dangerous and increasingly unpopular industry model - grasping at straws is analogy that comes to mind.
We indeed have a fight on our hands to protect and promote the public fishery - I will agree with you on that. We will need to fight hard to maintain the right to publically fish that is for sure. But there is a difference - we have just begun to fight as a sector whereas the fate of net pen fish farms is basically a forgone conclusion thankfully - to the land they will go! The sooner the better for the marine environment!
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Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
If you look at the last two pages you will see often suggestions from those against FF using blanket terms like uneducated, intelligent, shill, lobbyist, spin, etc etc etc. In my post I simply pointed out a lack of understanding from a poster who has been at this on these threads for over 10 years the difference between disease and viruses. He claims to have read endless pages, and I believe him, of studies and posts. Yet this person continues to use one term misleadingly and continues to do so. So I pointed it out. But it won't change anything this person posts. Its just untrue is all that wild bc salmon get diseases from farm fish. An no one has posted a link or study that says different. Because they cant.
It sure gets way beyond tiring hearing the same old and occasionally a new lie claimed by the industry, their PR machine, and their supporters. For me - it is irresponsible, and only confirms that we should not listen to their claims. They are not reliable, and have an extensive history of both lying and being mistaken - often purposely so.
Remember HMSI? Ya the industry claimed for years that PRv doesn't cause HMSI - until Kristi Miller and her team got involved in that longitudinal study that showed that the industry vets never tested @ the right time to find PRv - as the lesions develop after the virus was cleared in the host Atlantic.
sea lice? no problems there - no effects on juvies.
resistance to slice? no that will never happen.
ISAv? ya - that'll never transfer to wild stocks.
Escapees? Ya, they will never escape? oh they did? wasn't us.
cages? They won't fall apart. Oh they did? Ya that was the eclipse - not us.
Disease? no disease - just disease vectors. No - disease vectors can't cause disease.
ISAv and PRv - no they aren't Norwegian/European despite what the genetics says. They were always here.
Sea lice chemicals. No they don't kill anything than sea lice. No we didnt kill your lobsters.
trust us to look after your resources - and no we won't let anyone know if/when/where there are any outbreaks so you can't check-up on us.
Quite the cartel.
Remember HMSI? Ya the industry claimed for years that PRv doesn't cause HMSI - until Kristi Miller and her team got involved in that longitudinal study that showed that the industry vets never tested @ the right time to find PRv - as the lesions develop after the virus was cleared in the host Atlantic.
sea lice? no problems there - no effects on juvies.
resistance to slice? no that will never happen.
ISAv? ya - that'll never transfer to wild stocks.
Escapees? Ya, they will never escape? oh they did? wasn't us.
cages? They won't fall apart. Oh they did? Ya that was the eclipse - not us.
Disease? no disease - just disease vectors. No - disease vectors can't cause disease.
ISAv and PRv - no they aren't Norwegian/European despite what the genetics says. They were always here.
Sea lice chemicals. No they don't kill anything than sea lice. No we didnt kill your lobsters.
trust us to look after your resources - and no we won't let anyone know if/when/where there are any outbreaks so you can't check-up on us.
Quite the cartel.
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