Aquaculture improving?..The Fish Farm Thread

SEAK troll harvests a good portion of WCVI fish and they just got a 50k increase in quota. My faith in wild salmon management is at an all time low. No one is saying that removing fish farms is going to create harvestable surpluses. At best there saying well we know there having an impact and we should be doing all we can for wild salmon.

Those same people are also saying that hatcheries are bad and sports fishing is also bad. That we should being all we can for wild salmon.

Why are they saying that? because they believe that climate change is going to wipe out salmon and in the meantime for the whales and the bears not to starve everyone else needs to go.
 
Sino said:
Thanks, but that in no way reflects reality and we both know that.
Fd
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Were are your counts to back up what your saying? ( I provided some) Do you have any info on sealice infecting wild smolts? Nothing even suggests they migrate past them. Sonar markers were placed right next to the farms last year. You should look up and read the results.
 
You should also spend sometime looking up WSU research on preditor water and how healthy smolts and burnt smolt interact. You would be amazed at the results.
 
Rico said:
Were are your counts to back up what your saying? ( I provided some) Do you have any info on sealice infecting wild smolts? Nothing even suggests they migrate past them. Sonar markers were placed right next to the farms last year. You should look up and read the results.
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Actually Rico - there's been many dozens of peer-reviewed studies over many years that demonstrate there often is sometimes quite large lice loading on outmigrating smolts from adjacent FFs. Many of these studies have been posted on other threads within this forum Use the seach function to educate yourself - if you wish.
Birdsnest said:
Wild salmon feed conversion is far worse than farmed.FYI
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Actually Birdie - NO! - FF feed STARTS with the "poor" (~10%) trophic conversion when they catch forage fish for the FF and pet food industries. AFTER THAT - the misleading dry-to-wet FCR used by the FF industry kicks in and further decreases the amount of seafood available for human consumption. Again - Many of these studies have been posted on other threads within this forum Use the search function to educate yourself - if you wish.
 
agentaqua said:
Actually Rico - there's been many dozens of peer-reviewed studies over many years that demonstrate there often is sometimes quite large lice loading on outmigrating smolts from adjacent FFs. Many of these studies have been posted on other threads within this forum Use the seach function to educate yourself - if you wish.
Actually Birdie - NO! - FF feed STARTS with the "poor" (~10%) trophic conversion when they catch forage fish for the FF and pet food industries. AFTER THAT - the misleading dry-to-wet FCR used by the FF industry kicks in and further decreases the amount of seafood available for human consumption. Again - Many of these studies have been posted on other threads within this forum Use the search function to educate yourself - if you wish.
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Id beg to differ. I have posted a study over the years here that makes my point and it was never refuted by the agent or anyone. The study showed that wild fish consumed far more wild feed than farmed fish. That was back then and it did not confuse the wet dry issue which you use all the time, I dont disagree with it either. However now more and more sustainable products are being use to substitute wild fish protein. It just keeps getting better but its a hard pill for you to swallow. FYI, telling me to get educated is slight of hand way of saying I'm uneducated. I suggest it is you who needs an education on the topic if you wish.
 
agentaqua said:
Actually Rico - there's been many dozens of peer-reviewed studies over many years that demonstrate there often is sometimes quite large lice loading on outmigrating smolts from adjacent FFs. Many of these studies have been posted on other threads within this forum Use the seach function to educate yourself - if you wish.
Actually Birdie - NO! - FF feed STARTS with the "poor" (~10%) trophic conversion when they catch forage fish for the FF and pet food industries. AFTER THAT - the misleading dry-to-wet FCR used by the FF industry kicks in and further decreases the amount of seafood available for human consumption. Again - Many of these studies have been posted on other threads within this forum Use the search function to educate yourself - if you wish.
Click to expand...

Actually have and nowhere is there anything that shows counts and and locations and salinity, etc. It always about how many lice are infecting salmon on farms, which then is projected on to wild stock salmon with out proof.


Sino said:
‘Last Year 300 Chinook returned to Clayoquot Sound’. So I would say total of all stocks. Pretty scary really, considering that area historically had good returns. The sound is now chalked with farms and they have been having massive sea lice issues. Upwards of 33 sea lice per fish have been reported. Absolutely disgusting.
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If you have such information at your finger tips please share, I have

https://mowi.com/caw/sustainability/wild-salmonid-lice-monitoring/
 
Rico said:
Actually have and nowhere is there anything that shows counts and and locations and salinity, etc.
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WOW!

I almost find it hard to believe you typed this - let alone believe it.

If you choose to not educate yourself on this topic, Rico - totally your prerogative (altho it doesn't mean the rest of the posters don't read this stuff nor wish to remain ignorant of the details of this debate, obviously).

However, it sure reinforces the recommendation to me that we should not believe nor trust what industry pundits claim. It also reinforces my assertion that each and every site should go through a thorough environmental assessment with vetted data and refereed discussions.

To recap: here's a past post where I provided those data:

Sources:1. Butterworth, K.G., Cubitt, K.F., McKinley, R.S. 2006. The prevalence, density and impact of Lepeophtheirus salmonis (Kroyer) infestation on juvenile pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) from the central coast of British Columbia, Canada. Fisheries Research, 91 (1), 35-41. 2. Krkosek, M., Gottesfeld, A., Proctor, B., Rolston D., Carr-Harris, C., Lewis, M.A. 2007. Effects of host migration, diversity and aquaculture on sea lice threats to Pacific salmonpopulations. Proc. R. Soc. B274 (1629), 3141-3149.3. Morton, A., Routledge, R., Peet C., Ladwig A. 2004. Sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis) infection rates on juvenile pink (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) and chum (Oncorhynchus keta)salmon in the nearshore marine environment of British Columbia, Canada. Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci.61, 147-157. (Unpublished data, R. Routledge, pers. comm.)4. Morton, A., Routledge, R., Krkosek, M. 2008. Sea louse infestation in wild juvenile salmon and pacific herring associated with fish farms off the east-central coast of VancouverIsland, British Columbia. North American Journal of Fisheries Management28,523-532. (Unpublished data, R. Routledge, pers. comm.)5. Peet, C. 2007. Interactions between sea lice (Lepeophtheirus salmonis and Caligus clemensii), juvenile salmon (Oncorhynchus keta and Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) and salmon farmsin British Columbia. Masters Thesis. University of Victoria, British Columbia. 138 p. (Bella Bella/Klemtu sample sizes by site status not reported.)6. Price, M.H.H. 2007. Discovery Islands Community Sea Lice Monitoring - Preliminary Report. (L. salmonis prevalence not reported by site status or by salmon species. We assumedthe ratio of L. salmonis / C. clemensi to be equal among sample sites.)

The studies can be read below:
http://uuathluk.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/sealice.pdf
https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/full/10.1139/F10-121?mobileUi=0#.XdRAE9WIa1s
http://www.sfu.ca/~bconnors/Site/Home_files/Connors.PhD_thesis.2011.pdf
http://skeenafisheries.ca/images/uploads/documents/Krkosek_etal_2007.pdf
https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/F10-150#.XdRAlNWIa1s
https://www.researchgate.net/public...marine_environment_of_British_Columbia_Canada
http://www.mathstat.ualberta.ca/~mlewis/Publications 2011/Krkosek, M., Connors, B., Morton, A., Lewis, M.pdf
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.532.7876&rep=rep1&type=pdf
https://www.raincoast.org/files/publications/papers/Peet-2007-Master-thesis.pdf
https://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/bb430a01-e0a3-4024-8168-bbf0b52bb542/2009+CSSWG+sea+lice+report.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=lHugaj-
https://www.raincoast.org/files/publications/papers/Peet-2007-Master-thesis.pdf

Just to be clear, unless you have other data to add to this volume of literature - or wish to dispute the findings in the journals that originally published the studies that were published - I really don't care what the industry feels about the Living Oceans Society, that constructed the chart using these references.

Just to be clear, the fact that the industry - doesn't like the Living Oceans Society and likes seawest news - does nothing to negate these studies and their results and implications of the results wrt impacts to wild stocks.

Just to be clear, the willingness of the industry to discount these studies and impacts to wild stocks in general because they either like or dislike the implications of the research adds and confirms my earlier assertions about ignoring unsupported and indefensible assertions from FF pundits due to their apparent lack of understanding & seemingly lack of responsibility for their potential and realized impacts on wild stocks.

Due diligence, responsible managerial actions, & fiduciary duty does not depend on anyone's personal likes or dislikes - or it shouldn't.

Just to be clear...

and here's some more that didn't make it into the overview chart:
https://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2013/105/d105p149.pdf
https://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2015/117/d117p107.pdf
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016851&type=printable
http://skeenafisheries.ca/images/uploads/documents/Gottesfeld_et_al_2009_Transfer_of_sea_lice.pdf
https://davidsuzuki.org/wp-content/...ort-incidence-sea-lice-juvenile-salmonids.pdf


there's literally dozens more sea lice studies world-wide that support the reality that open net-cage FFs elevate background levels of sea lice that wild salmon and trout are exposed to. Been an accepted fact for well over 20 years now in places that try to regulate the industry. It's not a new or unexpected or unaccepted issue.

And those numerous peer-reviewed articles and the discussion on the implications of sea lice loading on outmigrating juvenile salmon has been posted and debated numerous times already on this forum. A brief search returned these examples:
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...as-wild-fish-pay-the-price.77021/#post-955746
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...ice-found-in-record-levels.75342/#post-933455
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/wild-salmon-and-fish-farms.75327/#post-933313
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/fish-farms.68678/page-22#post-874673
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/what’s-destabilizing-b-c-’s-wild-salmon-stocks.67968/page-3#post-857851
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...lice-and-fish-farms.64546/page-21#post-856043
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...lice-and-fish-farms.64546/page-17#post-849634
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...g-criteria-politics.37507/page-57#post-454092

As I have said before - ignorance is but a choice - and one I don't recommend for the responsible stewardship of our aquatic resources.
 
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Rico said:
Were are your counts to back up what your saying? ( I provided some) Do you have any info on sealice infecting wild smolts? Nothing even suggests they migrate past them. Sonar markers were placed right next to the farms last year. You should look up and read the results.
Click to expand...

here we go again. You seriously have nothing new to add except going backwards??

So you think that all the sea lice issues on open net pen farms have no impact on outmigrating smolts? You have some real learning to do.

FD
 
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Wow.... talk about getting your backs up.

Was a simple question. One I cannot find. It was were is the info that shows were lice are being transmitted to wild salmon?


How is it going backwards? Been a member here for what 6 months? Haven't once ask anything on the topic of sealice..... I ask one question...
Sino you treat people here like there shitheads

Cya, I'll never ask another question here again whata dick
 
The previous two posts are examples of why this discussion on FF is so tiresome. Instead of using the ignore feature, (either in their head or literally as a function available on the forum) they stir the pot looking for a fight and resort to name calling. Couple more bans in place. Next?
 
Not meaning to take a "shot" at Grieg's Seafood, however regardless of all the work they do to support wild salmon, and the research they conduct to prove sea lice are not an issue
wouldn't they make a far bigger statement to the farming industry if they only supported closed-containment systems instead of open ocean net pens ?
Given the state of wild salmon, it's time for government to "jump" one way of the other .. they either go "ALL IN" to save wild salmon stock, or forget about wild salmon and go "ALL IN" on aqua culture
They are trying to appease both and by doing so, eventually wild salmon will go the way of the buffalo (small little pods, with little foot print in isolated areas)
 
Good post, PT. I agree w your comments.

The newest multi-million $ vessel is built for the benefit of the FARMED FISH - sea lice takes a toll on them, as well - and ultimately the products value. Slice is no longer effective due to slice resistance built-up in the lice in FF fish.

Separating interactions between farmed and wild stocks using the precautionary approach is something DFO has been loath to do since they see their job is to protect and promote the industry ever since Yves Bastion bastardized DFO's key focus. Justice Cohen noted this conflict of interest, as well.
 
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